Advanced Prototype w/ Ion (PvP) - 8/31/2

[Amp_]

This is my first crack at posting a build for public consumption, so feedback is welcome. I also couldn't come up with an interesting name for it.

 

The reason I went with this is because I enjoy playing PvP defensively, but with how shield works against certain damage types I wanted to see if I could come up with something else outside of Shield Tech that gave me a little more oomph.

 

I've enjoyed playing with it and have done well for myself. If anyone happens to try it out, please let me know what you think.

 

Thanks.

 

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/bounty_hunter/powertech/#::fefef9ef2ef3e4fe13f2ef16:

Edited January 16, 2012 by Amp_

[Athilias]

Literally just mentioned this in another thread a little bit before this post. I currently run a 10/31/0 because I felt 2 points in steely resolve were better then a 8% damage buff on RP. Anyway, I love the mobility of the build, and think it's underrated, or more unnoticed. Too many people are jumping on FB refreshes, and forgetting Flame thrower is a very viable skill. With proper strafing (which becomes even better with being sped up 25% of the time) you can manage your heat easily, and be a heck of a guardian. It's also quite devestating for running the ball since you get a 8s immunity to stuns, plus your stun breaker.

 

The only thing I don't like about it is I don't have a good refresher for anything basically. Everything is smooth flowing, but I can't get any spike damage unless it's multiple crits. I basically know if I'm going to lose the fight half way through it.

[terrorball]

I think if someone is really set on playing AP in pvp this is prolly the best it's going to get. That said it's inferior to any of the other "standard" popular builds out there. Because Powertech rules you can still be successful but I would not delude yourself into thinking this is a good build.

 

The big thing thing with AP is of course the lack of heat being a issue, this build now has zero bonus to getting rid of heat, ironically. Sadly I agree with going with Ion stance. When another tree's "stance" is better than the one you have 31 points speced into you know there needs to be some buffing to AP.

 

Big fan of Hydraulic Overrides, love it, wish I could have it. Overall better than Jet Charge? I don't think so.

 

Immolate gets props for being a decent end ability, and looks super sweet. Your giving up way too much for it imo from either of the other trees.

[Amp_]

Literally just mentioned this in another thread a little bit before this post. I currently run a 10/31/0 because I felt 2 points in steely resolve were better then a 8% damage buff on RP. Anyway, I love the mobility of the build, and think it's underrated, or more unnoticed. Too many people are jumping on FB refreshes, and forgetting Flame thrower is a very viable skill. With proper strafing (which becomes even better with being sped up 25% of the time) you can manage your heat easily, and be a heck of a guardian. It's also quite devestating for running the ball since you get a 8s immunity to stuns, plus your stun breaker.

 

The only thing I don't like about it is I don't have a good refresher for anything basically. Everything is smooth flowing, but I can't get any spike damage unless it's multiple crits. I basically know if I'm going to lose the fight half way through it.

 

Cool. Mobility is definitely a strong point and so is durability I would say. Having the points in Stabilized Armor really helps. Last night I was guarding the door in Voidstar by myself when a Scoundrel opened up on me. I was able to take his best shot and then create space with Hydraulic Overrides and ended up taking him out.

 

I actually wasn't a fan of Flamethrower at first. I tend to dislike skills that make me stand still. However with points into it with Prototype Flamethrower, I use it a lot on classes like healers who are standing there trying to heal when they're almost dead, and to finish off Gunslingers/Snipers who don't want to move out of cover.

 

 

I think if someone is really set on playing AP in pvp this is prolly the best it's going to get. That said it's inferior to any of the other "standard" popular builds out there. Because Powertech rules you can still be successful but I would not delude yourself into thinking this is a good build.

 

The big thing thing with AP is of course the lack of heat being a issue, this build now has zero bonus to getting rid of heat, ironically. Sadly I agree with going with Ion stance. When another tree's "stance" is better than the one you have 31 points speced into you know there needs to be some buffing to AP.

 

Big fan of Hydraulic Overrides, love it, wish I could have it. Overall better than Jet Charge? I don't think so.

 

Immolate gets props for being a decent end ability, and looks super sweet. Your giving up way too much for it imo from either of the other trees.

 

It's not about it being the best build out there hands down. I've spent hundreds of thousands of credits trying out different builds and just because something is good on paper that does not mean it translates into success for every player. I'm a fan of playing what suits your play style, rather than changing it for a build, and Advanced Prototype works for me.

 

I went deep into Shield Tech, but with shield not working against all damage types I decided to switch out of it (even though it was my favorite). I've also tried Pyrotech and did the most damage with it, but that tree is just too heat heavy for my liking, so it doesn't work well with me. I like AP because it's mobile, durable, and relentless. It may not excel at many areas, but it's a nice marriage of all aspects of Powertech in my opinion.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Amp_

[Athilias]

I think if someone is really set on playing AP in pvp this is prolly the best it's going to get. That said it's inferior to any of the other "standard" popular builds out there. Because Powertech rules you can still be successful but I would not delude yourself into thinking this is a good build.

 

The big thing thing with AP is of course the lack of heat being a issue, this build now has zero bonus to getting rid of heat, ironically. Sadly I agree with going with Ion stance. When another tree's "stance" is better than the one you have 31 points speced into you know there needs to be some buffing to AP.

 

Big fan of Hydraulic Overrides, love it, wish I could have it. Overall better than Jet Charge? I don't think so.

 

Immolate gets props for being a decent end ability, and looks super sweet. Your giving up way too much for it imo from either of the other trees.

 

Jet Charge is useful for Huttball. Outside of that it's not that great, unless you charge a Marauder/(W/E Repub mirror is) so that they can't charge you, either way, you have grapple for that. Meanwhile, Hydraulic Overrides makes you faster in combat and 8 second cc proof. Both of those are great for survivability. If you have the increase to run speed with jet charge it's not bad, but you get that boost as soon as you use it, so by the time you can move, you get 3s tops with the movement boost doesn't help your melee strafe for long, you also have to waste 2 points to get it.

 

Either way, the AP was never meant to be the best at damage, or damage mitigation. It does have very quick cooldowns on some prime abilities however, and is the best support tree I've seen.

 

However, I will disagree with the OP on Pyro tree being a heat pig. Too many people want to burst really hard with that tree, and don't take time to realize how good of sustained damage they could have if they used Automated Defenses, Rapid Venting, and Super heated rail properly.

[Amp_]

However, I will disagree with the OP on Pyro tree being a heat pig. Too many people want to burst really hard with that tree, and don't take time to realize how good of sustained damage they could have if they used Automated Defenses, Rapid Venting, and Super heated rail properly.

 

I only speak in terms relative to the other two trees. Compared to those, heat with Pyrotech is a much bigger factor, where as in my time with ST and AP I don't believe over heating was ever an issue. It's not unmanageable by any means, but heat is definitely something you need to be more aware of with Pyrotech, or else you could easily find yourself in trouble.

[Agroovesak]

Just use the normal HEGC AP build. You can easily switch to ION should you want to gaurd or ball run and it'll let you dps with HEGC on when you want also. The ion talents in Shield tree are worthless outside of the snare and that isn't worth 3 points imo. I just use 7/32/2 with 2 in steely, 2 in quell, and everything else pretty standard. I also tend to get combust over rail loaders because -4% damage on everyone is massive in group fights.

[Xsorus]

I've ran the 10/31/0 build for most of the games life so far.

 

Current build i'm running of it

 

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/bounty_hunter/powertech/#::fef4e2f3ef8e3fe6fe2de5f18

 

You can move the 15% speed bonus to something else if ya want, just been trying it whenever i slip on DPS gear and run around with the DPS cylinder.

 

That said, i've yet to lose a 1v1 with this build while wearing the tank gear.

 

Operatives and Scoundrels in general are a joke while running a build like this.

 

Heat is also not a huge problem with this build, You gotta understand your main damage cycle with this build is low heat use.

 

Immolate/Rocketpunch/Blade/Railshot.

 

Then throw Flameburst's still the chain is up again (you can throw rocketpunch as well since FB will make it free)

 

Not a terribly difficult rotation, and not squishy at all in any sense.

 

That said, Pyro does put out more burst if it gets a chain of Railshots going, but that line is very range specific in that, sometimes Railshot just doesn't pop..

[Mhak]

Just for the record, you guys know that tank stats as a whole have largely reduced effectiveness in PvP? There's a large controversy about this in the tanking community, and I'm fairly positive you're making this build under the assumption that it makes you significantly tankier when that's not really the case.

 

- Shields only proc off weapon attacks. Tech attacks? Nope. Force attack? Nope. Scoundrel scatter gun attacks (technically tech attack and not a weapon attack, just like operative knives), sage rocks, hell most attacks in the game that don't come from Gunslingers. All of it has a 100% chance to bypass shields.

 

- Same with Defense. You cannot dodge a tech or force attack.

 

- Armor is a nice defense vs kinetic and energy damage, but most class' high-DPS spec (including Powertechs, for example) consists of largely internal/elemental damage. This completely bypasses armor.

 

Final thing to consider here - AP is by and large a useless spec at 50. The damage is horrendous compared to Pyrotech, and all you really get for spec'ing AP is some slight mobility advantages (although you can get that in Pyrotech too with Degauss) and easier heat management. This tree will hopefully be buffed significantly in the future, but right now it's terrible.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Mhak

[Amp_]

Just for the record, you guys know that tank stats as a whole have largely reduced effectiveness in PvP? There's a large controversy about this in the tanking community, and I'm fairly positive you're making this build under the assumption that it makes you significantly tankier when that's not really the case.

 

I'm fully aware. The only tank gear I use is a shield in my off-hand and the rest is dps gear. The only reason you would consider AP as terrible as you imply is because you're solely focused on the damage column at the end of a warzone.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Amp_

[Mhak]

Partially correct. AP is a DPS tree, so the point of spec'ing into AP is to kill things. Considering that AP was designed (poorly) with PvP strongly in mind, the idea then is a PvP DPS class with utility from things like Hydrolic Overrides and easier heat management.

 

However, as mentioned, the DPS is so tremendously less than Pyrotech that the tradeoff of very minor mobility gains and handy heat management are not worth it. Pyrotech's heat is slightly more difficult to manage but considering you usually kill your foe in seconds this is negligible, and the slightly increased mobility from AP is only really useful in Huttball for ball carrying.

 

So yes... I would consider AP terrible because it's a DPS tree that doesn't DPS half as effectively as the other DPS tree, and the utility tradeoff is remarkably situational at best. These are objectively valid reasons to consider AP terrible. Any 50 PT in Champion gear will PvP much more effectively as Pyrotech than AP in every circumstance with the single exception of ball carrying in Huttball. Hopefully Bioware will buff AP soon, as of now it is widely considered useless at 50.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Mhak

[Amp_]

I don't understand how you see lower CC cooldowns, lower cooldown on interrupt, additional CC immunity with a speed boost, and 20% less damage while stunned being remarkably situation. The build I posted is not meant to be superb dps, but a defensive based build that offers more than Shield Tech currently does. Edited January 16, 2012 by Amp_

[Mhak]

You don't see because you're speaking from the inexperience of not having tested both specs at level 50 in pvp gear. The fact that I'm going to explain the following to you is a bad sign because it means you haven't discovered this for yourself, like every level 50 PT in pvp gear has already. The problem is that everything you think is great about AP can be done nearly as effectively as Pyrotech, all while doing twice the damage. Notable talents I'll explain for you -

 

- Hydrolic Overrides. It makes you hard to kite, whereas Pyrotech combats effectively from range and can perma-snare, so kiting a Pyrotech is pointless. Requiring a skill to counter this weakness of AP's is bad. What is good about HO is scoring in Huttball, which seems to be what this ability was made for - running across the ledges without worrying about getting knocked off. Although you can still be stunned in a fire trap. On stuns -

 

- Stabilized Armor. 20% less damage while stunned is arguably the most situational talent in the game. The vast majority of stuns you break out of. Many of the ones you don't break out of are because you don't need to due to having a filled resolve bar. Knockdowns like from Operative and Scoundrel openers and Force Push are not stuns and you still take full damage while affected by them. On the relatively rare occasions you have to eat a full-duration 4 second stun, 20% less damage during those 4 seconds is almost never going to save your life. It sure won't in a fire trap or acid pit in Huttball, which is where you're stunned the most often as AP trying to carry the ball.

 

Finally, you haven't tried a full ST build in DPS gear, because that damage isn't far behind AP's while maintaining comparable mobility due to Jet Charge. All while having significantly more survivability than any AP hybrid spec ever could, as well as higher burst damage potential due to huge RPs that can be reset.

 

I know you're going to be defensive and protect what you think is a good spec to your dying breath to save face, but I hope you understand that 1 - I'm not attacking you, I'm just stating facts, and 2 - if you want to play AP I hope you'll join the crowd yelling at Bioware to buff AP. It needs serious buffs and will hopefully get them one day. You will discover this for your self when you're level 50 in PvP gear.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Mhak

[Morbidar]

You don't see because you're speaking from the inexperience of not having tested both specs at level 50 in pvp gear. The fact that I'm going to explain the following to you is a bad sign because it means you haven't discovered this for yourself, like every level 50 PT in pvp gear has already. The problem is that everything you think is great about AP can be done nearly as effectively as Pyrotech, all while doing twice the damage. Notable talents I'll explain for you -

 

- Hydrolic Overrides. It makes you hard to kite, whereas Pyrotech combats effectively from range and can perma-snare, so kiting a Pyrotech is pointless. Requiring a skill to counter this weakness of AP's is bad. What is good about HO is scoring in Huttball, which seems to be what this ability was made for - running across the ledges without worrying about getting knocked off. Although you can still be stunned in a fire trap. On stuns -

 

- Stabilized Armor. 20% less damage while stunned is arguably the most situational talent in the game. The vast majority of stuns you break out of. Many of the ones you don't break out of are because you don't need to due to having a filled resolve bar. Knockdowns like from Operative and Scoundrel openers and Force Push are not stuns and you still take full damage while affected by them. On the relatively rare occasions you have to eat a full-duration 4 second stun, 20% less damage during those 4 seconds is almost never going to save your life. It sure won't in a fire trap or acid pit in Huttball, which is where you're stunned the most often as AP trying to carry the ball.

 

Finally, you haven't tried a full ST build in DPS gear, because that damage isn't far behind AP's while maintaining comparable mobility due to Jet Charge. All while having significantly more survivability than any AP hybrid spec ever could, as well as higher burst damage potential due to huge RPs that can be reset.

 

I know you're going to be defensive and protect what you think is a good spec to your dying breath to save face, but I hope you understand that 1 - I'm not attacking you, I'm just stating facts, and 2 - if you want to play AP I hope you'll join the crowd yelling at Bioware to buff AP. It needs serious buffs and will hopefully get them one day. You will discover this for your self when you're level 50 in PvP gear.

 

50 Valor Rank Powertech here. I will say I support this quote 110%. There's nothing at all I could counter here. Very well said. Now, if you want to be a situational subpar DPS'er at best then by all means spec it. I've tried it through countless respecs to make it work but I keep going back to my 31 point PT build.

[Amp_]

You don't see because you're speaking from the inexperience of not having tested both specs at level 50 in pvp gear. The fact that I'm going to explain the following to you is a bad sign because it means you haven't discovered this for yourself, like every level 50 PT in pvp gear has already.

 

- A lower CD on interrupts is necessary for AP because they can't kill fast enough to only need a single interrupt like Pyrotech does. Having damage that low is bad.

 

- Lower CDs on their stun and grapple are necessary to keep up with people because they can't keep people perma-snared like Pyrotech can. Requiring minute-long CDs to keep up with people because you have no other ways to control them is bad.

 

- Hydrolic Overrides makes you unkitable, whereas Pyrotech combats effectively from range and can perma-snare, so kiting them is pointless. Requiring a skill to counter this weakness is bad. What is good about HO is scoring in Huttball, which seems to be what this ability was made for - running across the ledges without worrying about getting knocked off. Although you can still be stunned in a fire trap.

 

- 20% less damage while stunned is arguably the most situational talent in the game. The vast majority of stuns you break out of. Many of the ones you don't break out of are because you don't need to due to having a filled resolve bar. Knockdowns like from Operative and Scoundrel openers and Force Push are not stuns and you still take full damage while affected by them.

 

Finally, you clearly haven't tried a full ST build in DPS gear, because that damage isn't far behind AP's while maintaining comparable mobility due to Jet Charge. All while having significantly more survivability than any AP hybrid spec ever could.

 

You seem to be thinking in terms of 1v1 and this is not the intention of this build. Intention is for implementation in group play and meant to be played defensively.

 

For what it's worth I have tried all the trees at 50. You're explaining this to me because you can't see beyond contributing in DPS.

 

- A lower interrupt is always good to have in PvP. The DPS of the AP is not as bad you claim it to be. I think you dismiss the tree as a whole because you see smaller DPS numbers and that's all you can see.

 

- I don't need to use CC solely to keep up with people. I use it to peel off dps from people who are getting hammered, or to remove ranged classes from their advantage point. That's what you do when you're playing defensively.

 

- This build takes advantage of the Ion Gas Cylinder slow triggering on Rocket Punch. Adding that with Hydraulic Override makes me very mobile. You still have to spend points as a Pyrotech to get your Combustible Gas Cylinder to slow, so it's not like you're getting that passively. You're spending points as well and using Ion still allows me use my guard on teammates without having to switch cells. Also key for playing defensively.

 

- Less damage while stunned is great to have. It adds to durability. You act as if being stunned in PvP is a rare occurrence, which it is not.

 

It's odd that you would bring up it not working all the time and then in the same post bring up the Shield Tech's durability, which is largely based on shielding attacks that's only going to help you against some damage types and not all of it. Defense (and even offense to an extent) based primarily on shield varies in usefulness depending on who you're fighting.

 

I'm not advocating this as the best build there is out there. It's just what I am currently using and I am doing well with it. It's not meant to out DPS the Pyrotech, but rather offer another defensive option other than Shield Tech. It works for me and thought I would share.

 

I used to be Shield Tech, but after finding out shield does not work against all damage types I switched out because it simply requires too many points invested into shielding, which isn't going to work all the time. If I am going to invest about a third of my tree points into shielding, then it better be useful all the time. The truth is it simply isn't.

[Xsorus]

You don't see because you're speaking from the inexperience of not having tested both specs at level 50 in pvp gear. The fact that I'm going to explain the following to you is a bad sign because it means you haven't discovered this for yourself, like every level 50 PT in pvp gear has already. The problem is that everything you think is great about AP can be done nearly as effectively as Pyrotech, all while doing twice the damage. Notable talents I'll explain for you -

 

- Hydrolic Overrides. It makes you hard to kite, whereas Pyrotech combats effectively from range and can perma-snare, so kiting a Pyrotech is pointless. Requiring a skill to counter this weakness of AP's is bad. What is good about HO is scoring in Huttball, which seems to be what this ability was made for - running across the ledges without worrying about getting knocked off. Although you can still be stunned in a fire trap. On stuns -

 

- Stabilized Armor. 20% less damage while stunned is arguably the most situational talent in the game. The vast majority of stuns you break out of. Many of the ones you don't break out of are because you don't need to due to having a filled resolve bar. Knockdowns like from Operative and Scoundrel openers and Force Push are not stuns and you still take full damage while affected by them. On the relatively rare occasions you have to eat a full-duration 4 second stun, 20% less damage during those 4 seconds is almost never going to save your life. It sure won't in a fire trap or acid pit in Huttball, which is where you're stunned the most often as AP trying to carry the ball.

 

Finally, you haven't tried a full ST build in DPS gear, because that damage isn't far behind AP's while maintaining comparable mobility due to Jet Charge. All while having significantly more survivability than any AP hybrid spec ever could, as well as higher burst damage potential due to huge RPs that can be reset.

 

I know you're going to be defensive and protect what you think is a good spec to your dying breath to save face, but I hope you understand that 1 - I'm not attacking you, I'm just stating facts, and 2 - if you want to play AP I hope you'll join the crowd yelling at Bioware to buff AP. It needs serious buffs and will hopefully get them one day. You will discover this for your self when you're level 50 in PvP gear.

 

Stabilized Armor works on the Knockdown effect of operatives, scoundrels as far as I can tell, I've yet to have one take me below 90% of my life while running this talent. The BM Op's/Scoundrels know well enough not to attack me now, because it usually ends up with me turning around and punt kicking them back to spawn.

 

I also want to know what world you live in where Determination is up 24/7 to pop you out of stuns that every class in this game has. Also anyone who thinks 20% less damage during a 4 second stun isn't going to save your life, is playing a Pyrotech, because Pyrotech is squishy and that's what you're basing your perspective on.

 

I've also tried Full ST in Offensive gear, it's less damage then full AP in Defensive gear.

 

In closing, Mhak, don't talk about AP anymore, we've already established you're clueless about it since we have you on record talking about how you don't pickup stabilized armor.. because it's bad *grin*

[Agroovesak]

Mhak, you're wrong on pretty much all your points outside of dps, and even that is dependent on rng and whether you have vent heat up. AP is significantly more versatile than pyro and definitely does more damage than ST. You can easily switch to ion even in standard AP specs for guarding and ball carrying, go on a healer to prevent heals much better than pyro (6sec quell means they never can cast a big heal which is generally crucial), and you can still go out and dps fairly hard. Immo and RP hit very hard in AP and aren't subject to all the 'deflects' you see on RS as pyro so it's a bit more reliable. Being able to use Combat Tech set which has great set bonii over just the good 4 piece of Eliminator is also nice.

 

This is from my experience with both specs as a Battlemaster PT.

[Xsorus]

Mhak, you're wrong on pretty much all your points outside of dps, and even that is dependent on rng and whether you have vent heat up. AP is significantly more versatile than pyro and definitely does more damage than ST. You can easily switch to ion even in standard AP specs for guarding and ball carrying, go on a healer to prevent heals much better than pyro (6sec quell means they never can cast a big heal which is generally crucial), and you can still go out and dps fairly hard. Immo and RP hit very hard in AP and aren't subject to all the 'deflects' you see on RS as pyro so it's a bit more reliable. Being able to use Combat Tech set which has great set bonii over just the good 4 piece of Eliminator is also nice.

 

This is from my experience with both specs as a Battlemaster PT.

 

He's basing it on Pyrotech, and I'll be the first to admit, Pyrotech puts out more DPS some matches then AP, But its not consistent, I'll get fights where I don't get Rail shot proc at all, then some fights i'll just **** on someone with railshot procs after every flameburst.

 

Just a really luck based spec.

[Agroovesak]

One other thing is that Pyro is waaayyy better for huttball unless you are carrying. Too many knockbacks and no baseline jump means you can't touch the ball carrier half the time as AP.

[Xsorus]

One other thing is that Pyro is waaayyy better for huttball unless you are carrying. Too many knockbacks and no baseline jump means you can't touch the ball carrier half the time as AP.

 

HO is great for Huttball, Though Jet Charge I think is slightly better.

 

I actually dislike Huttball the most as Pyro.. very annoying without a way to get to the enemy.