Trevock Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The differences in damage between the Operative lethality spec vs the Sniper lethality spec is like night & day. Literally. The issue of having to get in melee range, hit Shiv just to be able to Cull (which is pathetic on the Operative anyway) is ridiculous. Not to mention that our Cull is 10m, while the Sniper Cull is 30m. It makes things way more irritating and it also does way less damage. What are your opinions of Lethality spec for Ops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YpaWinz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The differences in damage between the Operative lethality spec vs the Sniper lethality spec is like night & day. Literally. The issue of having to get in melee range, hit Shiv just to be able to Cull (which is pathetic on the Operative anyway) is ridiculous. Not to mention that our Cull is 10m, while the Sniper Cull is 30m. It makes things way more irritating and it also does way less damage. What are your opinions of Lethality spec for Ops? I've seen folks use something like this: http://knotor.com/skills#AgASABdzkaKrusrS20lSanuJkpqisrnT2gAA and keep kolto probes running to keep TA up for cull. It seems to work fairly well, though I don't have much experience with it myself. It looks like it could work as a support healer/off dmg spec. The DoT's/cull could help keep pressure on healers while the probes and heals could help your team out. It might get kind of weird trying to manage hots/dots/cull all at once, I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeone Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I've played as Lethality both the full build and cull/probe build for the TA. They both work quite well and I often top the damage chart (a third of the time on average). If I came across a group of people, I always apply Corrosive Dart to every one of them and make sure whenever I use my Corrosive Grenade it always hits 3 targets. I don't find TA to be that much of an issue since you will always find a person within melee range once in a while. Although I do think it would be nice if they make Weakening Blast to award one TA Also, I think Operative's Cull does more damage Edited January 16, 2012 by Xeone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockcrazy Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Operative's Lethality is so bad. Sniper's version is 100x better. They should just remake the spec into a true midrange build without requiring you to shiv to use Cull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightKlaw Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Concealment is 1000x better for pvp anyway. Lethality always struck me as the PVE spec; lots of DoT damage so you aren't ripping threat off the tank in the first 3 seconds with 5k crits, etc, but overall more sustainable an consistent damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainsfords Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Concealment is 1000x better for pvp anyway. Lethality always struck me as the PVE spec; lots of DoT damage so you aren't ripping threat off the tank in the first 3 seconds with 5k crits, etc, but overall more sustainable an consistent damage. Acid Blade does more DoT damage than anything lethality has, ironically enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griefa Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Lethal is complete garbage at the moment for PvP, no matter how you spec it. I wanted it to work and have tried every possible spec involving it. Anything more than 3 points into the tree is wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasith Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Lethal is complete garbage at the moment for PvP, no matter how you spec it. I wanted it to work and have tried every possible spec involving it. Anything more than 3 points into the tree is wasted. Same goes for PvE. On trash it's better, but on single target bossfights it's lackluster. As was said Backstab + Acid Blade does way more sustained dps. The only time I think Lethality would be better is if you can't backstab, which would tend to mean your tank is dead anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athilias Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I've got to disagree that's it's bad for PvP. It's not good for 1v1, but mixed with medicine, it's a great support build. I'll dot 4 targets, and have support healing going on the group, then some darn good cc to go along with it. You can still do some decent burst with hidden strike -> backstab -> shiv, to help bring down a target quick, or just weaken a tank for your group to gang up on. However, if you are playing solo, you really won't get things done productively with Lethality. I mean, on my 28 OP I come out 2nd or 3rd in damage, with usually 3/4 50s on both sides of the match, but I can't do much objectively, and my healing is like spitting on a fire, only good for those last stretch in Huttball, or downtime on Aldeeran/Voidstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homehopper Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Wow... so much misinformation. For starters lethality is FAR, FAR from terrible in PvP, actually its better in most, if not all cases for general Warzone usage. Now you wont be able to take someone from 100-0 in 5 seconds from stealth like conceal can, but honestly how long do you think thats gonna last? Itll be nerfed in the first major class adjustment patch, i can guarantee it. I top dmg charts 99/100 games, assuming im not on defence duty in a premade or something. More often than not, i top dmg by a LONG way... (Please keep in mind i DO NOT use/abuse brokenchem and my gear is average) http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/score1q.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/440/score2l.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/46/score3a.jpg/ Fact is lethality offers alot more for PvP. Better energy managment, better survivability and more tools to prevent people from capping nodes (dots). I have no trouble taking anything in a 1v1 and more often than not youll find me 1v2ing or 1v3ing. Perhaps the most important thing is stealth isnt a crutch for lethality, i dont need it, i dont rely on it and tbh i rarely use it unless ive lined up a nice easy kill and want the hidden strike head start. My hidden strikes still crit for well over 4k btw... Not to mention the burst from cull which is actually quite good, its not unusual for me to knock off 50% of peoples hp with a single cull. [edit] Just a quick note about medals. As lethality its very hard if not impossible for me to achieve the 75k healing one without sacrificing the 300k dmg one... The variation for me was that as conceal i wasnt able to obtain the 300k dmg one and had to go out of my way to achieve the 75k healing. Overall i still get 6+ medals a game, more often than not, 8. Edited January 16, 2012 by Homehopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taralash Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Wow... so much misinformation. For starters lethality is FAR, FAR from terrible in PvP, actually its better in most, if not all cases for general Warzone usage. Now you wont be able to take someone from 100-0 in 5 seconds from stealth like conceal can, but honestly how long do you think thats gonna last? Itll be nerfed in the first major class adjustment patch, i can guarantee it. I top dmg charts 99/100 games, assuming im not on defence duty in a premade or something. More often than not, i top dmg by a LONG way... (Please keep in mind i DO NOT use/abuse brokenchem and my gear is average) http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/score1q.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/440/score2l.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/46/score3a.jpg/ Fact is lethality offers alot more for PvP. Better energy managment, better survivability and more tools to prevent people from capping nodes (dots). I have no trouble taking anything in a 1v1 and more often than not youll find me 1v2ing or 1v3ing. Perhaps the most important thing is stealth isnt a crutch for lethality, i dont need it, i dont rely on it and tbh i rarely use it unless ive lined up a nice easy kill and want the hidden strike head start. My hidden strikes still crit for well over 4k btw... Not to mention the burst from cull which is actually quite good, its not unusual for me to knock off 50% of peoples hp with a single cull. [edit] Just a quick note about medals. As lethality its very hard if not impossible for me to achieve the 75k healing one without sacrificing the 300k dmg one... The variation for me was that as conceal i wasnt able to obtain the 300k dmg one and had to go out of my way to achieve the 75k healing. Overall i still get 6+ medals a game, more often than not, 8. Could you post a link to your build? I have been wanting to try out lethality for a while now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homehopper Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Could you post a link to your build? I have been wanting to try out lethality for a while now Its really nothing special... http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#4010cZGbZhrbkrrhdhR.1 People will rip me for not having counterstrike but tbh i found i didnt need it most of the time and when i did i forgot to use it (derp). So i switched to lethal purpose for better energy management. General "rotation" on people in PvP (if i have the oppurtunity) is stealth > hidden strike > dart > corrosive nade > weakening blast > cull (usually dead by now) > shiv > cull (if they arent dead by now they getting healed). Other than that i stalk on the outside of fights (top railing in huttball for example) darting everyone, using corrosive grenade on cd and using frag nade when people cluster up (like when they trying to zerg our ball carrier for example). I try not to toe2toe people, so i end up kiting alot, moreso because i dont wanna have downtime healing up, not that i cant toe2toe with the best of em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerikin_Loukbel Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Build looks solid. Might get precision instruments instead of infiltrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogurta Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I have played both fulll lethality and lethality/medicine hybrid. Now I play Concealment. Here is the deal: I dealt much more damage on charts with lethality and felt very confident and prepared for every situation. However, I couldn't burst down nobody, even lowbies. Concealment is the complete opposite. You feel powerful when you burst people down. However, when the opener is finished and the target is still alive, you are useless. Especially if having low FPS in warzones. Overall damage is much lower, but you don't "feel" that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungryewok Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) you're doing something wrong when u are saying concealment is useless when out of stealth. I constantly crit for 2.5+k vs 400+ expertise geared opponents and up to 5k on lowbies when out of stealth. Sever Tendon makes up for lack of mobility and pvp medpacks + rakata medpacks + shield probe help me to stay in a fight for quite a while. Here's a screenshot of me as Concealment being in the middle of action all the time and using biochem defensively. http://s018.radikal.ru/i513/1201/22/1632fa4e772f.jpg Considering this Lethality is completely not viable right now. It might be viable if only they added ta proc from dot crits or from weakening blast so that we didnt have to use shiv. Edited January 16, 2012 by hungryewok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neurosisxeno Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Lethality is acceptable in PvP, just very hard to play. I did 30 Valor Ranks of it, and would routinely top damage. The major issue is I was constantly out of Energy, and wouldnt get Cull off as much as you would think. You basically play as melee in PvP to get TA from Shiv and are forced to rely on kiting opponents a LOT. It's definitely harder than Concealment, but not "terrible" by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylauz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 you're doing something wrong when u are saying concealment is useless when out of stealth. I constantly crit for 2.5+k vs 400+ expertise geared opponents and up to 5k on lowbies when out of stealth. Sever Tendon makes up for lack of mobility and pvp medpacks + rakata medpacks + shield probe help me to stay in a fight for quite a while. Here's a screenshot of me as Concealment being in the middle of action all the time and using biochem defensively. http://s018.radikal.ru/i513/1201/22/1632fa4e772f.jpg Considering this Lethality is completely not viable right now. It might be viable if only they added ta proc from dot crits or from weakening blast so that we didnt have to use shiv. Are you going to seriously tell us you didnt use your biochem for dmg? Cmon man... If people wanna play conceal and enjoy it while it lasts i totally understand, but dont use dmg shots with biochem abuse to prove that its awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiss-Reeno Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Well i played few weeks as Concealment, and now switched to Lethality. Now i am getting much more fun then with stab-stab-cloak-stab-stab Consealment. Nothing interesting in 3-4 shot everyone. Lethality is much harder to play, and if you just want to rollface peoples around - stick to Consealment. But if you like a chaleging and fun speciality, then lethality may shine in your hands. GL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homehopper Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Here ya go... (This was obviously vs a premade that dominated the pug, but yeah, dmg much?) (Again this is without Biochem!) http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/407/score4w.jpg/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockcrazy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I am not impressed. You managed to get 6 medals, not even 2.5k damage hit medal with all that damage you did, and only 13 kills? I still strongly believe they need make it similar to snipers lethality spec, its too clunky requiring Shiv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homehopper Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I am not impressed. You managed to get 6 medals, not even 2.5k damage hit medal with all that damage you did, and only 13 kills? I still strongly believe they need make it similar to snipers lethality spec, its too clunky requiring Shiv. It wasnt meant to be impressive, it was meant to show that under the right conditions anyone can **** the dmg charts. Under normal circumstances lethality will out dmg conceal 9 times out of 10. [edit] Quick note, since upgrading my gear im able to get the 5k in one hit medal with hidden strike and achieve 75k healing if i play smart... All while retaining the 300k medal. Edited January 17, 2012 by Homehopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrosov Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's a skirmisher spec. You sneak up and use your hidden strike backstab shiv and then kite em while keeping up your dot's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliknor Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Don't forget to crouch. That exploding probe will take people down after a cull, when/if everything else is on cooldown. Lethality dps is actually fairly cycled between full-set gear and ability rank cycles. Lvl 44 dart will feel like you are doing alot less damage until you acquire the next level. Even ungeared and dead 1/3rd the battle, lethality should be in the top 6 for damage. When you play it right, you'll also start getting killing blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrosov Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I honestly think Lethality is one of the top PvP specs but it's rather complex. You have AoE dot damage which is just awesome for the warzones. You can get cool down reduction all your utility. You get lots of ways to keep distance/kite. Your burst might not be as good as concealment but you have other tools that make up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masahiko Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I honestly think Lethality is one of the top PvP specs but it's rather complex. You have AoE dot damage which is just awesome for the warzones. You can get cool down reduction all your utility. You get lots of ways to keep distance/kite. Your burst might not be as good as concealment but you have other tools that make up for it. You do realize that a majority of POPULAR specs have dispel for poison and bleeds? No matter how good lethality hypothetically is, its major damage source is removed with the click of a button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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