Black Lightsaber

[Nerzhul]

i have to say I find bringing science into this argument is hilarious. light sabers on their own are completely impossible.

 

This is like arguing that in the Harry Potter movies the spell "eat slugs" is impossible because it's not said in a latin phrase.

 

This ^^

 

 

There are so many holes in the SW cannon as related to science and the laws of physics that we really just need to leave science and physics out of it.

 

 

Small example, light speed travel is impossible according to the laws of physics as we know them. While physics does allow for traveling faster than light in some ways, such as bending space and time around the vessel, actually moving an object with mass at the speed of light cannot be achieved, because the faster an object moves, the more massive it becomes. To reach the speed of light any object with mass would require an infinite supply of energy (which as far as we know does not exist). At the speed of light, that object would reach an infinite mass which would cause a singularity (a black hole).

 

Star Trek would actually be a lot closer to what could be possible in space travel with the "Warp Drive."

 

So no, we couldn't just push a lever and watch the stars blur as we move our ships at light speed.

 

I really spend zero time thinking about this when I play or watch the movies. Whatever happened to make believe?

 

Sorry to get off topic though. Black saber crystals are kewl

 

I'd personally rather see the black/white crystals in game be some kind of rare crafting schem, with rare hard to obtain mats.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Nerzhul

[Citronvand]

This ^^

 

 

There are so many holes in the SW cannon as related to science and the laws of physics that we really just need to leave science and physics out of it.

 

 

Small example, light speed travel is impossible according to the laws of physics as we know them. While physics does allow for traveling faster than light in some ways, such as bending space and time around the vessel, actually moving an object with mass at the speed of light cannot be achieved, because the faster an object moves, the more massive it becomes. To reach the speed of light any object with mass would require an infinite supply of energy (which as far as we know does not exist). At the speed of light, that object would reach an infinite mass which would cause a singularity (a black hole).

 

Star Trek would actually be a lot closer to what could be possible in space travel with the "Warp Drive."

 

So no, we couldn't just push a lever and watch the stars blur as we move our ships at light speed.

 

I really spend zero time thinking about this when I play or watch the movies. Whatever happened to make believe?

 

Sorry to get off topic though. Black saber crystals are kewl

 

I'd personally rather see the black/white crystals in game be some kind of rare crafting schem, with rare hard to obtain mats.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8783011/Speed-of-light-broken-at-CERN-scientists-claim.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8901001/Speed-of-light-broken-again-as-scientists-test-neutrino-result.html

 

My opinion of the whole "physics vs fantasy" is that if the lore explains it in a good way and/or it makes sense in the lore I can accept it even though it contradict RL physics. But as far as I know there is no explanation whatsoever about the "Darksaber" and it doesn't make sense.

 

For normal Lightsabers there is explanations how they work, it's plasma and a crystal. But that explanation doesn't really work for the Darksaber since it's black.

 

No, instead I get the feeling that they wanted to add some cool stuff for kids instead of expanding the lore in a good way. That, I do not like and is why I dislike this so called Darksaber.

[DarthWalt]

Its kinda a pointless thing over all.

 

 

We aregued this for a year b4 launch and what happened they gave everyone a black and yellow one for pre order. Then they added then as end game gearing with black blue and black red.

 

 

 

So as much as I never wanted to black crystals and how bad they are for lore we have them and we have to live with it.

[ShadoeWrayth]

I'd rather go back to the original thought that a lightsaber blade was only there because of the Jedi, basically an extension of their strength with the force. In that case, Dark Jedi had red because they were a corrupt cancerous growth in the whole harmonious balance of the force. Jedi had blue because they were good guys...

 

Later they added green and yellow basically to show what kind of Jedi they were, while Dark Jedi/Sith still only had red...

 

I could see black as a color for those Dark Jedi/Sith who became REALLY REALLY evil, so bad that they were basically "Negative Force" Wherever they went, the force withered... Jedi who fought them were weaker, merely because the force was weaker near them. But I don't know of anything like that in SW canon...

[Nerzhul]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8783011/Speed-of-light-broken-at-CERN-scientists-claim.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8901001/Speed-of-light-broken-again-as-scientists-test-neutrino-result.html

 

My opinion of the whole "physics vs fantasy" is that if the lore explains it in a good way and/or it makes sense in the lore I can accept it even though it contradict RL physics. But as far as I know there is no explanation whatsoever about the "Darksaber" and it doesn't make sense.

 

For normal Lightsabers there is explanations how they work, it's plasma and a crystal. But that explanation doesn't really work for the Darksaber since it's black.

 

No, instead I get the feeling that they wanted to add some cool stuff for kids instead of expanding the lore in a good way. That, I do not like and is why I dislike this so called Darksaber.

 

 

Thanks for those links. That's pretty exciting news and admittedly, I've not been following the latest developments for some time now. Don't think we are quite at the point of throwing out Einstein's laws, but this is amazing science for sure.

 

I totally agree about the lore or story in the "physics vs fantasy" thing. If it's a good story I could care less about the RL science of it all. I guess that was my original point. As long as I'm entertained, I'm good.

 

I am curious though as to why a "black plasma" couldn't exist?

 

The whole black saber thing may be just a gimmick by the game devs, but I still like the look of it. I thought it looked wicked in TFU and I still do

[TheLonelyTusken]

We need Rainbow sabers.

 

Pink as well, who doesn't love pink?

[ErikModi]

We have pink. It's the Magenta crystal.

[Sabster]

What's it matter if it's canon or not? They can make up stuff and guess what - it becomes canon.

 

/discussion

[jarjarloves]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8783011/Speed-of-light-broken-at-CERN-scientists-claim.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8901001/Speed-of-light-broken-again-as-scientists-test-neutrino-result.html

 

My opinion of the whole "physics vs fantasy" is that if the lore explains it in a good way and/or it makes sense in the lore I can accept it even though it contradict RL physics. But as far as I know there is no explanation whatsoever about the "Darksaber" and it doesn't make sense.

 

For normal Lightsabers there is explanations how they work, it's plasma and a crystal. But that explanation doesn't really work for the Darksaber since it's black.

 

No, instead I get the feeling that they wanted to add some cool stuff for kids instead of expanding the lore in a good way. That, I do not like and is why I dislike this so called Darksaber.

 

i am all for lore explinations such as the lighsaber uses the force.

 

 

However saying it uses plasma is impossible. Plasma essentially is a gas that has an electric charge. It can be superheated but it is not a solid. A lightsaber blade acts like a solid. This is impossible for a plasma to do.

[Gantoris_Aym]

it's physically impossible to cast black light. the only reason you see black on the movie screens is because it's literally just a dim white light, so everything else around it is just a lot brighter. It's the same color as the screen it's being cast on. That's why in really old VHS's and stuff you see black backgrounds where it almost looks like red. probably because it IS red. I'm a film major and I've seen all of the illusions you can do for BLACK. but they're experimenting with digitally enhanced blackness in movies. Idk how that works yet, but I believe ROTS used it.

 

black lightsabers are impossible unless you're in a galaxy where impossible things happen.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Gantoris_Aym

[ErikModi]

However saying it uses plasma is impossible. Plasma essentially is a gas that has an electric charge. It can be superheated but it is not a solid. A lightsaber blade acts like a solid. This is impossible for a plasma to do.

 

No, it's not:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_window

[jarjarloves]

No, it's not:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_window

 

yes it still is. A Plasma window is just a way of containing the plasma. It doens't make it solid.

 

Plus if you use a magnetic field you run into a bunch of problems such as.

 

1. sucking up all metal items into the blade.

 

2. if the magnetic field is strong enough two blades will never hit.

 

3. if it's not strong enough the two blades will go right through each other.

 

4. if the magnetic field of two blades is opposite the blades will hit each other and become stuck.

 

plus you still have the problem of having super heated plasma which would cut through anything but also the heat given off by it would kill anyone holding it.

[ErikModi]

yes it still is. A Plasma window is just a way of containing the plasma. It doens't make it solid.

 

Wrong. While it TECHNICALLY doesn't make it sold, the whole point of it is to contain something (in the case of the article, atmosphere) on one side. So yes, it is "solid" in that things cannot pass from one side to another. While current plasma window technology isn't up to it, there's speculation about the technology being applied to creating large windows on spaceships, since the plasma window could separate the vacuum from the interior of the ship, or creating the sorts of force fields seen in Star Wars and other science fiction, which allow some solid objects (like spaceships) to pass through, while preventing other solid objects (like air molecules) from escaping.

 

Plus if you use a magnetic field you run into a bunch of problems such as.

 

1. sucking up all metal items into the blade.

 

2. if the magnetic field is strong enough two blades will never hit.

 

3. if it's not strong enough the two blades will go right through each other.

 

4. if the magnetic field of two blades is opposite the blades will hit each other and become stuck.

 

You really don't know anything about these kinds of magnetic fields, do you?

 

plus you still have the problem of having super heated plasma which would cut through anything but also the heat given off by it would kill anyone holding it.

 

Depends on how hot the plasma is. Not all plasma is surface-of-the-sun hot, just like not all liquids are liquid-nitrogen cold.

Edited February 1, 2012 by ErikModi

[jarjarloves]

Wrong. While it TECHNICALLY doesn't make it sold, the whole point of it is to contain something (in the case of the article, atmosphere) on one side. So yes, it is "solid" in that things cannot pass from one side to another. While current plasma window technology isn't up to it, there's speculation about the technology being applied to creating large windows on spaceships, since the plasma window could separate the vacuum from the interior of the ship, or creating the sorts of force fields seen in Star Wars and other science fiction, which allow some solid objects (like spaceships) to pass through, while preventing other solid objects (like air molecules) from escaping.

 

 

 

You really don't know anything about these kinds of magnetic fields, do you?

 

 

 

Depends on how hot the plasma is. Not all plasma is surface-of-the-sun hot, just like not all liquids are liquid-nitrogen cold.

 

ok again a light saber CAN"T ALLOW ANYTHING TO PASS THROUGH IT. A light saber must deflect blaster bolts, light sabers and vibroblades. It can't do that unless it is able to become 100% solid.

 

umm are you honestly trying to say there are different types of magnetic fields???

 

before you answer that keep in mind I am working on my masters in Physics.

 

and the temperature has to be hot enough to slice through pretty much anything so yeah it would burn the user of it. Look at Plasma torches now welders aren't wearing the protective gear to look nice.

[RoadtoArkham]

I'm so glad that people want to take the time to have nasty arguments about magic laser swords.

[ErikModi]

before you answer that keep in mind I am working on my masters in Physics.

 

Funny. None of the physicists (who actually HAVE Masters, at least) I've heard talking about this sort of thing seem to labor under the weight of the impossibilities you hurl around.

 

And yes, there are different "kinds" of magnetic fields, depending on what they are intended to do.

[BlackLotus]

You know why the heck would you try to analyze the "science" in a fantasy story? I DON'T care if black lightsaber is possible or not in real life! Why would I want science remove the "wonder" I had when I first saw a lightsaber when watching a new hope for the first time as a child. If you could give a scientific explanation to Magic.... magic wouldn't be mysterious or magic anymore.

 

When you start trying to find scientific reasons as to why things are possible you stop being a child(I mean as a state of mind of wonder if you know what I mean) We kill Santa and Tooth fairies that way.

 

I can understand that with Star trek as it is science fiction...but Star wars?

 

 

So Darksaber look nice and I like them, I don't care about wether it is possible or not.

[ErikModi]

Well said.

 

And one can use that to ignite the amazing part of science. . . the drive understand something. Instead of just shouting "that's impossible!" you try and MAKE it possible, or understand how it IS possible.

 

That's the true essence of science, which, sadly, too many scientists have forgotten.

[Tygranir]

Funny. None of the physicists (who actually HAVE Masters, at least) I've heard talking about this sort of thing seem to labor under the weight of the impossibilities you hurl around.

 

And yes, there are different "kinds" of magnetic fields, depending on what they are intended to do.

 

Umm.... I'm not sure you know what magnetic fields are. And ANY ignited plasma that becomes visible and can cut through a blast door (SW Ep 1) would be giving off immense heat. Magnetic fields to not absorb nor shield emitted heat.

 

Leave current science out of this, as it has no place in the function of lightsabers.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Tygranir

[areto]

For some reason people like using RL logic to explain something in a fictional universe, while completely ignoring the universe's logic which explains pretty much anything wihin the universe of where said question is coming from the fictional universe.

 

RL logic + Fictional universe= NO

 

Fictional logic + Fictional universe= YES

 

Its not that hard to understand.

 

Tbh it makes those people who do use RL logic look like a bunch of...well you know, to try and explain something that isn't going to make any sense unless you use the universe's logic.

 

Logic is always logic.

 

What you're talking about are principles.

 

and for further clarity and jerkiness:

 

prin·ci·ple/ˈprinsəpəl/

 

A fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning.

 

Log·ic /'ljk/

 

The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.

[ErikModi]

Umm.... I'm not sure you know what magnetic fields are. And ANY ignited plasma that becomes visible and can cut through a blast door (SW Ep 1) would be giving off immense heat. Magnetic fields to not absorb nor shield emitted heat.

 

Nope, I get the concept.

 

Leave current science out of this, as it has no place in the function of lightsabers.

 

Tell that to the dude screaming "impossible" a few posts up.

[MustrumRidcully]

Wrong. While it TECHNICALLY doesn't make it sold, the whole point of it is to contain something (in the case of the article, atmosphere) on one side. So yes, it is "solid" in that things cannot pass from one side to another. While current plasma window technology isn't up to it, there's speculation about the technology being applied to creating large windows on spaceships, since the plasma window could separate the vacuum from the interior of the ship, or creating the sorts of force fields seen in Star Wars and other science fiction, which allow some solid objects (like spaceships) to pass through, while preventing other solid objects (like air molecules) from escaping.

 

 

 

You really don't know anything about these kinds of magnetic fields, do you?

 

 

 

Depends on how hot the plasma is. Not all plasma is surface-of-the-sun hot, just like not all liquids are liquid-nitrogen cold.

I am not quite sure what the point is of having plasma contained so it doesn't leave a magnetic field? How does this make it a useable weapon? If stuff from outside can penetrate the magnetic field, it will lead to plasma leakage where the magnetic field is broken by the impacting material. If it can't, you could just omit the plasma and wield the magnetic field itself as a weapon.

 

Or would you say that whatever goes through the magnetic field wouldn't disturb it?

 

Of course, that still leaves the issue that heat would still be emitted, which is not that desirable unless you have some kind of material that can act as plasma even at low temperature. (But if you do, what purpose does your weapon have? Is the Lightsaber some kind of elaborate electroshock weapon?)

 

Ah, well. Whatever makes Light Sabers possible in Star Wars, it may also allow for black light sabers.

Edited February 1, 2012 by MustrumRidcully

[jarjarloves]

Funny. None of the physicists (who actually HAVE Masters, at least) I've heard talking about this sort of thing seem to labor under the weight of the impossibilities you hurl around.

 

And yes, there are different "kinds" of magnetic fields, depending on what they are intended to do.

 

ROFL Oh my god please I have to hear this would you mind giving me ANY information on how there are "different" magnetic fields.

 

Can you have a magnetic field that attracts wood? Or how about one that is solid?

[Citronvand]

Ah, well. Whatever makes Light Sabers possible in Star Wars, it may also allow for black light sabers.

 

Then we are in a disagreement. I can accept that there exist different crystals which creates different colors. But black is a special case since it's a lack of light. Lightsaber emit light rather than reflect it so a darksaber must absorb light to be perceived as black. That doesn't sound like a lightsaber.

 

I don't like it, especially since the first so called "Darksaber" was supposed to be a vibroblade and not a lightsaber. I wonder who changed that

[Nerzhul]

What's it matter if it's canon or not? They can make up stuff and guess what - it becomes canon.

 

/discussion

 

Completely agree. Everything becomes canon at some point because someone wrote it into the story. There's been many authors that have elaborated on the original works and now we have this living, breathing universe that can go in so many directions. It's only really limited by imagination. Seems like we forget what that is sometimes!

 

 

it's physically impossible to cast black light. the only reason you see black on the movie screens is because it's literally just a dim white light, so everything else around it is just a lot brighter. It's the same color as the screen it's being cast on. That's why in really old VHS's and stuff you see black backgrounds where it almost looks like red. probably because it IS red. I'm a film major and I've seen all of the illusions you can do for BLACK. but they're experimenting with digitally enhanced blackness in movies. Idk how that works yet, but I believe ROTS used it.

 

black lightsabers are impossible unless you're in a galaxy where impossible things happen.

 

 

http://ge.geglobalresearch.com/blog/the-truth-behind-lightsaber-technology/

 

 

Well, in the Star Wars universe, we are in a galaxy where impossible things are possible. That's what makes it so appealing. You know, the whole fantasy of it all.

 

If we can have infinite power supplies, light speed travel, lightsabers, blaster pistols, hovering speeders, and "the force" for cryin' out loud, then black sabers should be totally possible.

 

We don't cry foul every time some Sith Lord shoots lighting out of their hands or when some Jedi magically pushes an opponent to the floor from halfway across the room.

 

Imagination like this gets people to think and become inspired. Science fiction and fantasy spur innovation and advances in technology. We might not even have the cell phone were it not for Star Trek communicators!

 

I say hang the science of it all and just enjoy the stories, and if you get the chance, try to make the impossible possible

Edited February 1, 2012 by Nerzhul