Incendiary Round/Energy Blast/Gut, Underwhelming.

[Daecollo]

These attacks are way too weak for there cooldown/ammo costs.

 

 

Energy Blast produces no threat, and compared to what other tank classes get in there tree it does almost nothing good for you.

 

1) Add an Ammo Cost to Energy Blast, Increase Damage Dramatically. (3-5k) And Lower the Range of the attack to 4m, while also trigging your Ion Cell.

 

2) Remove the cooldown/make it trigger Ion Cell in AAs, making it just an attack that increases your Ammo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Incendiary Round

 

It basicly doesn't do enough damage for the 3 Ammo Cost, it does about as much damage as 1 or 2.

 

1) Lower the cost of Incendiary Round by 1, Increase the Damage, lower the time it takes to burn.

 

2) Make it an AOE attack with a large radious, Increase damage.

 

 

 

 

Gut

 

Costs too much for the damage it does.

 

1) Increase damage.

 

2) Lower time it takes for the damage to occur.

 

3) Decrease Ammo cost to 1 via Talent.

[Waagabond]

As much as I do agree.

Have you taken a look on other classes dots?

 

Look at some of the sniper or operatives dots or smugglers.

Honestly: Gut and Incendiary are pretty balanced.

I think incendiary need an ammo cost of 2, not 3, otherwise its great.

 

But do remember one thing: For pvp, you can not cap a tower when you have a dot on you.

If they made incendiary aoe AND cheaper, it would be extremly overpowered in regards to what the vanguard could defend in 2 of the 3 maps.

 

Again, they have made a balance between pvp and PVE.

Vanguards places good damage when you do both gut and incendiary, then you use plasma cell ontop of this and you have 3 dots up, then you have 90% armor mitigating high impact bolts that can reset on any ion cell or stock strike.

 

Vanguards main damage is: Stock Strike, Ion Cell and High Impact Bolt.

Just learn that and you will be fine.

 

What you want, would make the class beyond overpowered. Its already the best pvp class in the game, in right hands, together with BioTech. Ouor damage together with the shutdowns, cc, kiting abilities, makes Vanguard and BioTech absolute beasts in PVP.

 

If you want to DPS in PVE, vanguard can do it very well, but if you want an easy way out you better stick to Gunslinger, Sniper, Gunnery Commando, to name a few.

 

Over and out.

[ReSeNt]

I'm convinced that Gut and Incendiary Round are basically there to ensure you can use High Impact Bolt. The ability that makes your next ability free is generally best with Incen Round...that kind of helps. Also, for Energy Blast, I think it could help to have it be 30m range. That way it could be more useful by being able to get aggro on ranged adds and make Vanguard feel a bit more ranged tank-ish.

 

But yeah, pretty sure they were just designed to give a DoT for High Impact Bolt, to that end that are effective if not entirely satisfying.

Edited January 15, 2012 by ReSeNt

[Daecollo]

What about Energy Blast? Comparing it to other tanks ...

 

 

 

Slow time.

 

Slows the passage of time for up to 5 targets, dealing 574 - 686 kinetic damage and decreasing the damage all targets deal by 5%. This ability generates a high amount of threat. Lasts 15 seconds.

 

Cooldown 7.5 Seconds.

 

It basicly is a Huge AOE attack that lowers the targets damage as well as having a short cooldown.

 

 

 

Guardian Slash

 

Strikes the target with a powerful blow, dealing 1883 - 2099 weapon damage and applying 3 stacks of armor reduction for 15 seconds. Targets affected by 5 stacks of your armor reduction suffer 2355 - 2625 weapon damage instead.

 

A huge attack that not only does lots of damage, but applys 3 stacks of armorbreak on the target, same cooldown as energy blast.

 

 

 

 

Energy Blast

 

Fires a shot that deals 702 - 813 elemental damage and generates 1 energy cell.

 

 

 

..........

[Kizah]

Yeah.. I kind of laughed when I saw Energy Blast. Made me not even want to get it as a tank.

[Daecollo]

They are adding a Slow and more Damage to Shadow's Tank Ability, but Energy Blast remains bad.

[grandmasterub]

They are adding a Slow and more Damage to Shadow's Tank Ability, but Energy Blast remains bad.

 

shadow tanks are worse than vanguards lol. get over yourself.

 

you get hookshot without having to use skill points. You get increased shield chance without having to spam a buff... you'll survive a free ammo spell...

[Ramaos]

Well, as a Shield spec VG, I'll be dropping Energy Blast tonight and getting Gut in a 30/11/0 spec and giving it a go.

 

TBH, I took Energy Blast but tbh if you don't have ammo management issues it's a pointless waste of a talent I feel.

 

Additionally, I'm all for giving every ability a unique animation but please BW give Energy Blast a High Impact Bolt style one. I mean actually instant.

[Acidictadpole]

1) Lower the cost of Incendiary Round by 1, Increase the Damage, lower the time it takes to burn.

 

I can only comment on this one as I'm a new vanguard. But I picked vanguard with the intention to PVP. Incendiary round is the PVP master ability. An 18 second DOT? Heck yes.

 

That's 18 seconds that someone is useless for capping a point. Or Out of combat healing. Don't make it burn slower, and I know this ability is not there for its damage output, but rather its utility.

 

Please start seeing the big picture when it comes to abliities. Not everything is there for pure damage.

 

 

As for Energy Blast. I can't speak to its usefulness yet, but its an instant ability that has zero cost, and actually gains you ammo? It may be very specific in its uses, but consider being stuck at 1 ammo and you lose aggro on a mob. Firing this then taunting is possibly faster than waiting on your second cell to come up.

 

As for gut, I'm really interested in the 25% for a guaranteed crit on HIB. It's an instant ability that does medium instant damage and medium bleed damage. The second talent gives you 15% more bleed, and then the next talent gives you the guaranteed crit chance.

[Pistols]

I can only comment on this one as I'm a new vanguard. But I picked vanguard with the intention to PVP. Incendiary round is the PVP master ability. An 18 second DOT? Heck yes.

 

That's 18 seconds that someone is useless for capping a point. Or Out of combat healing. Don't make it burn slower, and I know this ability is not there for its damage output, but rather its utility.

 

Please start seeing the big picture when it comes to abliities. Not everything is there for pure damage.

 

This. ^

[Kizah]

As for gut, I'm really interested in the 25% for a guaranteed crit on HIB. It's an instant ability that does medium instant damage and medium bleed damage. The second talent gives you 15% more bleed, and then the next talent gives you the guaranteed crit chance.

 

 

Personally I have no issues with Gut, and the auto crit HIB I've seen already hitting for 1100+ at mid 30s on my Vanguard, so no complaints here.

[Mozivicus]

Is anyone running a viable set up with gut AND incendiary rounds? Just curious.

[Acidictadpole]

Is anyone running a viable set up with gut AND incendiary rounds? Just curious.

 

There are videos of a guy called Oozoo or something who runs with both. He uses the crit bonuses from gut, and loves incendiary round.

[boomxi]

There are videos of a guy called Oozoo or something who runs with both. He uses the crit bonuses from gut, and loves incendiary round.

 

Incendiary Round works great in voidstar when you have to stop a lot of people at once from planting a bomb for 18 seconds. I don't use it often only when I need debuff on target to get HIB off.

[grandmasterub]

Is anyone running a viable set up with gut AND incendiary rounds? Just curious.

 

I want to try this when I get to 50.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801ZrsMrobckzZfhMrzh.1

 

Thats for wz's. For pve id lose kolto and htl in tactics and either grab pulse generator or rapid recharge in assault. Also id move cryo points to damage reduction.

 

Obvs you'd run plasma cell. And id have to test whether you get better dps from continuing past gut, or if those 5+ points are better served in the first row of shield

[Mozivicus]

I want to try this when I get to 50.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801ZrsMrobckzZfhMrzh.1

 

Thats for wz's. For pve id lose kolto and htl in tactics and either grab pulse generator or rapid recharge in assault. Also id move cryo points to damage reduction.

 

Obvs you'd run plasma cell. And id have to test whether you get better dps from continuing past gut, or if those 5+ points are better served in the first row of shield

 

That looks nice, and I agree with your tweeks for PvE. I'm soooo disappointed in the lack of viability for shield spec in PvP that there's really not much of a choice but to go full DPS vanguard. Maybe if they fix the shielding.defense, and absorption in PvP for us I'll feel better about running a shield spec again.

 

I looked around for a link to oozoo's ability chart, couldn't find one, so I'll start wth what you put up and see how it goes (not 50 yet though)

[Kizah]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRGbdMboZ0MZfhbbdh.1

 

That was the spec I will be running for my Vanguard at 50. I've seen different versions of it around before, but that's what I settled with to get the best of both worlds.

 

Works well with PvP and can be easily adjusted for more PvE if you choose.

 

Since I would like to tank but still pump out some decent damage for threat holding and DPS (with Plasma Cell) works just fine.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Kizah

[Mantang]

That looks nice, and I agree with your tweeks for PvE. I'm soooo disappointed in the lack of viability for shield spec in PvP that there's really not much of a choice but to go full DPS vanguard. Maybe if they fix the shielding.defense, and absorption in PvP for us I'll feel better about running a shield spec again.

 

I looked around for a link to oozoo's ability chart, couldn't find one, so I'll start wth what you put up and see how it goes (not 50 yet though)

 

 

I don't understand what you mean about viability of shield spec in PvP. We have all the tools needed to be one of the most obnoxious and irritating players on the field in ops especially in Huttball. If you're just about burning down the other players you shouldn't want to be in shield spec to begin with. Winning ops isn't just about burning down the other team. This is why they implemented all the different mechanics you find within the operation.

[Mozivicus]

Maybe if they fix the shielding.defense, and absorption in PvP for us I'll feel better about running a shield spec again.

 

That's what I meant about shield spec viability. Our "tank" stats are broken in PvP. That means that we/you are just as tanky in a DPS set up as you are in a shield spec tank set up. So.... I'm looking for a decent DPS set up, that's all.

[Kizah]

That's what I meant about shield spec viability. Our "tank" stats are broken in PvP. That means that we/you are just as tanky in a DPS set up as you are in a shield spec tank set up. So.... I'm looking for a decent DPS set up, that's all.

 

Well apparently in the upcoming patch, they are fixing how shield/defense etc. will be operating.

[Mozivicus]

Well apparently in the upcoming patch, they are fixing how shield/defense etc. will be operating.

 

Ya? I haven't seen anything on that, it'd be nice. Do you know where I could find info on that?

[Kizah]

Ya? I haven't seen anything on that, it'd be nice. Do you know where I could find info on that?

 

Supposidly it was stated in fixes for the upcoming patch. Granted, this was being discussed in-game so.. I'm hoping it's true. I'll take a look at the notes, though.

[SpecialKseZ]

I want to try this when I get to 50.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801ZrsMrobckzZfhMrzh.1

 

Thats for wz's. For pve id lose kolto and htl in tactics and either grab pulse generator or rapid recharge in assault. Also id move cryo points to damage reduction.

 

Obvs you'd run plasma cell. And id have to test whether you get better dps from continuing past gut, or if those 5+ points are better served in the first row of shield

 

This one looks like a fun build but doesn't having both "Hold the Line" and "Degauss" seem kind of redundant? With 8 seconds of immunity, a 30 sec cooldown and harpoon in hand you don't need much to stay on top of a target. Seems to me like this would free up two points that could be spent somewhere else.

Edited January 17, 2012 by SpecialKseZ

[Waagabond]

They are adding a Slow and more Damage to Shadow's Tank Ability, but Energy Blast remains bad.

 

Vanguards and biotechs are this games best tanks, final.

 

Yes, Jedi Guardians can do more damage in ONE hit when they are in there, but with all our dots up and able to hit stock strike quite often, and high impact bolt, our damage is high.

We also have great aoe damage abilities. The vanguard and biotech have NO comparison in the low and mid levels as a tank, they are better in every possible aspect. At lvl 50 they even out but still, the Vanguard have so many tools the other tanks do not have.

And again, front load damage, Jedi Guardian can do more, but with the dots added, vanguard damage is up there as well, just not as close. But remember..we have RANGED damage, hence it should not be as high.

They need to balance it for PVP as well.

 

And above all, dont forget Riot Strike.

 

Vanguards belong to one of the few classes that might eat a nerf bat in the future, I hope not, rather bring the other classes up to that of a vanguard.

Overall however, its a great balance.

But anyone feeling vanguards are underpowered are not playing the class correct.

Biotech and Vanguards are the 2 best classes in this game at the moment, both for PVE and PVP. Enjoy it instead.

[Waagabond]

If you want to PVP DPS: This is the spec to go:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801ZrsMrobckzZfhMrzh.1

 

You want to PVE dps, go this spec

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#8010MZrsMrobcoZfhMrzh.1

 

Although you could as easily go the first spec, as the difference here is survival and hold the line for 6% more damage on high impact, very very marginal at best but some people wants the top of the line.

 

Thats it. There are no better dps specs for vanguards. Going 31 point in a dps tree will gimp yourself incredibly much. If you say otherwise, you dont know. Its simple as that.

The amount of high impact shots and stock strikes you can fire off with the above spec is insane.

And since High impact shot and Stock strike are the vanguards two best damage abilities, together with Ion Pulse...thats pretty much it.

 

For a shield spec, just get Storm and then I recomend going tactics. Or if you want incendiary shot go assault but know that 40% of your talents will be wasted just for incendiary shot since you will be running with ion cell as a shield tank, not plasma cell. Then again, its easy to switch:-)