Concealment Operative and Tree's

[Grendol]

PvP'ing has been great so far but I'm looking for some feedback on what tree's we are using. I'm not finding the cookie cutter spec to be the most viable in a lot of the situations i have been dealing with. If anyone has been finding some nice tree setups, I would like to try some out thanks.

 

COOKIE Spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#4010cZGhGodkrbfzZhr.1

Edited January 15, 2012 by Grendol

[Nizel]

I'm honestly not trying to troll here, I am curious as to how and why it is so difficult for people to read talents, and figure out their own specs. I mean, you know what abilities are clutch for your class right? Which ones you use most? Which ones frequently save you, or give you that extra edge?

 

Use those.

 

--

 

Which cookie cutter spec are you referring to, concealment with slip away? medic, with C-grenade? Some other spec?

 

What about your current spec isn't viable? Are you taking too much damage? Are you not doing enough? Your post is pretty vague.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Nizel

[Krovean]

But, but, but. I don't want to take the time to figure it out.

I just want it handed to me, then ask how to use it/rotation to use.

[Garrix]

I'm honestly not trying to troll here, I am curious as to how and why it is so difficult for people to read talents, and figure out their own specs. I mean, you know what abilities are clutch for your class right? Which ones you use most? Which ones frequently save you, or give you that extra edge?

 

Use those.

 

--

 

Which cookie cutter spec are you referring to, concealment with slip away? medic, with C-grenade? Some other spec?

 

What about your current spec isn't viable? Are you taking too much damage? Are you not doing enough? Your post is pretty vague.

 

 

Some truth here yes, but I find its a great resource to ask others and get there opinions. Afterall, what sounds good and what actually is good are not often one and the same.

[Vortimous]

Agreed... I like to see other peoples specs just to see why they took this over that... there is a reason and since I am not 50 yet, I would like guidance along the way instead of respecing because I took something that sounded good, but in reality sucks. Therefor people are looking for guidance as to what is a must, what is optional, and the reasons why. I got in many long dicussions on the Sorc boards about DPS since there are alot of different builds for different reasons, including hybrids... hybrids dont seem to be as big on IA, but then again I am only level 25. I started with a hybrid and just respeced for the first time to go all concealment... I loved assassin in rift and this play style is just like that.... I love stealth melee and this is just like that with concealment... I might miss the healing of pets, but I hope the damage I do outweighs the healing I would be doing... we will see...

[Grendol]

I'm not trying to just use peoples builds, but see what they are using due to so multiple alterations of the concealment spec. Sorry if i'm sounding noobish to you but i like to switch specs up a lil to see what i can maximize in certain areas. I never just copy people's spec because they never work towards my exact play style etc. Edited January 15, 2012 by Grendol

[KnightKlaw]

I don't take Slip Away, due to almost never using debilitate. My targets are always at 100% resolve by the time they get up from Jarring Strike. I have incisive action instead, since I have a tendency to self-heal a lot of the time. Along the same lines, I took Survival Training vs Inclement Conditioning, since the self-heal ticks from Revitalizers are boosted by that and ends up providing more of a health bonus than 6% stamina over the course of a fight (unless I'm getting rocked by 3+ people critting into quad digits... at which point who cares anyway, you're dead if cloak is on c/d).

[MarcoMontana]

Im only lvl 22 atm, but Im thinking Acid Blade not as good as Corrosive Grenade?

[deverin]

But, but, but. I don't want to take the time to figure it out.

I just want it handed to me, then ask how to use it/rotation to use.

 

Now this is trolling...

[Masahiko]

Im only lvl 22 atm, but Im thinking Acid Blade not as good as Corrosive Grenade?

 

If you're going concealment and NOT taking acid blade, you shouldnt spec concealment at all.

 

That is THE MOVE that makes the entire tree worth going down. Without that you lose a tremendous damage opportunity.

 

I'm not trying to just use peoples builds, but see what they are using due to so multiple alterations of the concealment spec. Sorry if i'm sounding noobish to you but i like to switch specs up a lil to see what i can maximize in certain areas. I never just copy people's spec because they never work towards my exact play style etc.

 

Couple of things to think about.

 

1) The stun speed bost isnt going to be that great most of the time as your target is going to have a full reslove bar after you open. So using it for a speed boost isnt as efficient as just throwing a Sever tendon root on people (which bypasses resolve)

 

2) Personal prefrence on HP talent but, the chances that the extra HP is going to help you is not that high tbh. Consider that Assassins and shadows need to spec tank to get their stealth detection boost means you will have the drop on them. That is the difference between an Opener and being caught out.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Masahiko

[Zerikin_Loukbel]

In my PvP experience so far I think slip away could be safely dropped from the concealment build, I really don't use it very often and when I do its not to run away (its good for heal specs though). Corrosive microbes seems like a good alternative pick. I don't use dart when I am attacking from stealth but if I get into a protracted fight another 25% damage on dart is good.

[Grendol]

If you're going concealment and NOT taking acid blade, you shouldnt spec concealment at all.

 

That is THE MOVE that makes the entire tree worth going down. Without that you lose a tremendous damage opportunity.

 

 

 

Couple of things to think about.

 

1) The stun speed bost isnt going to be that great most of the time as your target is going to have a full reslove bar after you open. So using it for a speed boost isnt as efficient as just throwing a Sever tendon root on people (which bypasses resolve)

 

2) Personal prefrence on HP talent but, the chances that the extra HP is going to help you is not that high tbh. Consider that Assassins and shadows need to spec tank to get their stealth detection boost means you will have the drop on them. That is the difference between an Opener and being caught out.

 

Sweet Thanks for the tips

[Grendol]

In my PvP experience so far I think slip away could be safely dropped from the concealment build, I really don't use it very often and when I do its not to run away (its good for heal specs though). Corrosive microbes seems like a good alternative pick. I don't use dart when I am attacking from stealth but if I get into a protracted fight another 25% damage on dart is good.

 

Wouldn't it still be viable for the points when you DO need to get away from your target example such as Jug or Assassin? I feel like i need to run at some points quickly and then get back into the fight. Thanks for suggestion though, will consider!

[EssFerret]

Wouldn't it still be viable for the points when you DO need to get away from your target example such as Jug or Assassin? I feel like i need to run at some points quickly and then get back into the fight. Thanks for suggestion though, will consider!

 

No if you need to run then you use cloaking screen. I agree that the 2 points can be better spent.

 

Also spec in cull. All you have to do is keep an OGCD acid blade up in your rotation and you get to hit 3% harder. Why not?

Edited January 17, 2012 by EssFerret

[neurosisxeno]

I would think;

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401bcZGhModkrffzZhM.1

 

But I've never played Concealment.

[Masahiko]

I would think;

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401bcZGhModkrffzZhM.1

 

But I've never played Concealment.

 

IMO people over value 3% increased damage to poisoned target in pvp. While you will eek out slightly higher damage against a posioned target our burst is very high. Cullling on a 4k crit (unless i math wrong) is about 120 extra damage. Now in PvE when you know that you will have a posion up as much as possible it is a talent you would take. In pvp there are other talents you can get that would be a better investment of your points. Like i said earlier Stealth detection is really a great talent.

 

I also think that people under value Incisive Action talent (T1 Med). This ability is a TA on a 2 sec cast which also heals. I mean there are times when you are behind a pillar and need a heal and this will give you both TA and a heal. Being able to start a fight full energy with Stim boost before you attacked one person is amazing. Not to mention the heal on stim boost.

[Rainsfords]

Without combat logs, it's hard to say "oh, here's how useful this damage skill is". Saying that, going from 8% expertise to 11% expertise results in a pretty noticeable "oomph" behind your attacks. As was said, I don't really see the extra End from Inclement Conditioning to be terribly viable, as we already get a pretty decent HP pool and we aren't meant to soak up damage in the first place. I'm not sure if Survival Training has the effect of increasing all self-heals by 12%, but if it does that's way more useful than the End, although I'd still prefer Culling.

 

As for Slip Away, the movement boost isn't really used to its fullest because Infiltrator already improves our under-cap speed. I'd say that the big draw of Slip Away is getting our only good, reliable stun out more frequently, which is very useful in group fights where you're pulled into a big melee in the middle of Huttball/in the endzone and you don't want to blow Cloak.

 

As for the usefulness of the specs, Lethality is garbage and while Medicine is ok, it's way too easy for a good player to shut you down with tab interrupts and it simply can't do the insane group HPS that a sorc can. Concealment puts an Operative in a happy place where we do really well. I'm always happy to see another 50 Operative pop up on my team, but I get upset when I see them toss Corrosive Grenade or sport Alacrity gear. :/

[AmandaBynes]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401McZGIModkrbfzZhM.1

 

Been using this forever now. I love Incisive Action because it helps me win 2v1s or more quite often, and I don't think the movement speed or cooldown reduction on debil is worth it for concealment. People will usually CC-break your initial opener, I can generally outlast them until their resolve bar dips down, debil, heal, heal, flashbang, heal, heal, I'm full health and they're dead . Plus I feel I can use my vanish more offensively instead of defensively. Just my opinion until we get a combat log.

[Grendol]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401McZGIModkrbfzZhM.1

 

Been using this forever now. I love Incisive Action because it helps me win 2v1s or more quite often, and I don't think the movement speed or cooldown reduction on debil is worth it for concealment. People will usually CC-break your initial opener, I can generally outlast them until their resolve bar dips down, debil, heal, heal, flashbang, heal, heal, I'm full health and they're dead . Plus I feel I can use my vanish more offensively instead of defensively. Just my opinion until we get a combat log.

 

Interesting might give what you have set up a try! I haven't been working too much with the flashbang and heal but yeah that sounds like it could work nicely.

[Ceptia]

This is my build which is maximising DPS and survivability. I noticed a lot of you skipping culling and scouting which I think is a bad move. Anything that will add dmg should be taken. As for scouting the defence is nice however it will help negate other steathers.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#4010cZGurMdkosfzZhr.1

[AmandaBynes]

This is my build which is maximising DPS and survivability. I noticed a lot of you skipping culling and scouting which I think is a bad move. Anything that will add dmg should be taken. As for scouting the defence is nice however it will help negate other steathers.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#4010cZGurMdkosfzZhr.1

 

No offense but that build is terrible. Maybe you were going for some sort of terrible pve/pvp hybrid build, I don't know...

 

3% damage against someone poisoned is almost nothing over the course of a fight, due to how fast kills come to you (hint: Its a PVE talent). You give up 30 sec of cooldown on vanish as well as 25% more speed from it. 50% to re-grant TA instead of 100% makes no sense, considering this is your only means of keeping TA up. You don't get waylay, which makes backstab FREE. 4% Endurance is less hp than a SINGLE AUTO ATTACK at level 50 with pvp gear. The stealth detection is situational and not necessary whatsoever considering what you give up to get it. Not to mention the defense is worth almost nothing at such a small amount, since you won't be stacking any sort of defense. 1/3 Survival Training? lol What?

 

Do you even play an operative?

[Coiffio]

Some truth here yes, but I find its a great resource to ask others and get there opinions. Afterall, what sounds good and what actually is good are not often one and the same.

 

precisely, it's what forums are for. sure I can read the talents for example, and it's easy to piece together a build, but discussing it with others can often help you to see how viable it is, or get criticisms and make adjustments. Though what am I saying, asking a question here gives you about a 80 percent chance to get a d bag response.

[Grendol]

precisely, it's what forums are for. sure I can read the talents for example, and it's easy to piece together a build, but discussing it with others can often help you to see how viable it is, or get criticisms and make adjustments. Though what am I saying, asking a question here gives you about a 80 percent chance to get a d bag response.

 

Lol i like your thinking

[Niddi]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401McZGIModkrbfzZhM.1

 

Been using this forever now. I love Incisive Action because it helps me win 2v1s or more quite often, and I don't think the movement speed or cooldown reduction on debil is worth it for concealment. People will usually CC-break your initial opener, I can generally outlast them until their resolve bar dips down, debil, heal, heal, flashbang, heal, heal, I'm full health and they're dead . Plus I feel I can use my vanish more offensively instead of defensively. Just my opinion until we get a combat log.

 

I really like this build. Just one question: How did you start? Did you go into concealment first to get Laceration asap or did you spend your first points in Medicine and Lethalty to get a solid foundation?

[Luwak]

I'm torn between 10% shiv damage and -4% damage taken for the last 2 points. Maybe it's because I'm low expertise at this point, but I find the reduced damage taken to be really helpful in the 1-on-1 setting. Probably because I don't have enough expertise to burst someone down in 1 cycle and I end up having to play games with sever tendon...