Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[Shammus]

Bioware,

 

Please allow Advanced Class Respec. There's no reason for this, give players the choice! If you're worried it will hurt your story or something - don't. You don't seem to care you send Jedi to go slaughter hundreds of Sand People, so why care about something that is needlessly restricting players?

 

Thanks!

 

 

THINGS TO CONSIDER:

 

1. An Advanced Class is separate from a Class in SWTOR. Support: http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes

2. Players deserve freedom, especially when it doesn't effect you in any way.

3. Given the same choices, a player's story, companions and ship is exactly the same regardless of your AC.

4. Just because you enjoy making 16 alts doesn't mean the player next to you does.

5. There's many legitimate reasons why a player at any level might need to respec AC's. It does not mean they are lazy/stupid.

 

ALSO:

 

Links showing Bioware has supported this idea...

 

WATCH:

 

Thanks to Salzwasser for the link.

 

...and more recently, read: http://torwars.com/2011/12/01/stephen-reid-on-advanced-class-switching/

 

POLL HERE: http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=4f1285a6c2e1b0e46168c294

 

 

 

 

I'll agree when world of warcraft allows you to change from a priest to a warrior when you respec

 

I think eventually bioware will just say "eff it" and have you choose your class from the beginning so that we can end this drama.

 

 

Advanced classes are not really options they are your "CLASS" as any other game would see it. the freedom is in the other three paths you can pick within the tree.

 

anyway looks like your poll is losing.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Shammus

[Karniel]

Hasnt bioware already said they are not even considering doing this? Why do we still see posts... Advanced Class is a CLASS onto itself that shares some abilities with the Starting beginning class. If you rolled a Marauder you're a marauder for life. Reroll and save yourself some time on the forums.

[Lethality]

Secondly, no, switching entire classes would be silly. No one in WoW wants to respec their holy paladin to a warrior to try tanking, simply respec to prot. Same theory in this game.

 

And once you accept that the design intent of advanced classes IS to be the entire class in Star Wars: The Old Republic, then you'll see this request just as silly.

 

 

The difference between talent trees and AC's seems arbitrary to me.

 

It may seem that way to you but the design isn't arbitrary: Classes are stories. Advanced classes are classes as you know them otherwise.

 

Instead of naming a practical reason why we can't respec AC's, you are just stating the obvious, that AC's are merely different talent specs but locked together.

 

There should be no words needed to explain why changing classes in a class-based RPG would be detrimental... you even said it yourself above - "silly".

 

 

Again though you are cherrypicking examples. I can just as easily go back to druid and make the comparison there. Feral druids use entirely different abilities, armor (statistically, so even more different), weapons, and roles than balance or resto druids.

 

And you didn't cherrypick with the druid? Pick a rogue and tell me how he can become a healer in WoW.

 

Different abilities, different armor, different roles and different weapons. These are the things that define classes in WoW, and define advanced classes in TOR. They're at the same hierarchy, and that's why they shouldn't be changed.

 

 

Again, I'm not for or against AC respecs particularly. I'm fine with Bioware wanting to keep it like it is. I just haven't seen a good enough argument beyond arbitrary wording and gates. Again I ask: What does it matter to you that I want to switch my Powertech to a Mercenary?

 

That's a good, reasonable position to have. But the separation is understanding/acceptance is that the advanced classes ARE the classes in this game. If you acknowledge that, then as you say, this request becomes silly.

 

If you like, my first post on page one of this thread provides a nice summary, including a quote from Daniel Erickson.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Lethality

[Lethality]

No one has ever expected to be able to switch classes in any other class-based RPG that is set up with the class structure (sandbox mechanics aside). It just doesn't happen.

 

There shouldn't be anyone on the fence about this... while you might "like" to have a different class, your preference shouldn't change the game design. There already is an in-game way to switch advanced classes = roll a new character. It takes you all of 4 hours to get to level 10.

 

Espeically since you did it before, right?

Edited January 15, 2012 by Lethality

[rfatcheric]

No, Dont allow it

[Anagnostis]

You made your decision, you screwed up. Start over.

[Gradivus]

In traditional MMOs, classes are defined by a set if conditions and constraints assigned to a given character. These classes are differentiated by the ability to:

 

• wield different weapons
  
• wear different armor
  
• use different abilities
  
• perform different roles
  

 

All of these attributes are found in the Advanced Class system of Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

In Star Wars: The Old Republic:

 

• Advanced Classes = Classes
  
• Classes = Stories
  

 

As soon as you understand and more importantly accept this fact, you'll be better off.

 

If you rolled a warrior in another game and wanted to be a mage instead, you wouldn't be allowed to switch.

 

Advanced classes ARE classes in TOR.

 

No switching!

 

Daniel Erickson on Advanced Classes being a full class:

 

 

 

 

This. No switching.

[Gradivus]

You made your decision, you screwed up. Start over.

 

And this.

[Wakow]

You can't respec your warrior to a mage or a rogue in WoW either, which is roughly the same thing.

 

One reason the system is the way it is now is to have four story-lines in stead of eight I suppose. It's also a risky design decision since the silver platter crew will immediately jump on the respec-issue as a failing that should be in the game. Had the choice been at level one in stead of level ten, but with the same story line, I don't think as many people would be complaining.

 

What we are getting now is a service to try out our class for a bit before we commit to a certain AC. Working as intended, and I really hope they don't change that.

 

That would be true if it wasn't for the fact AC's are simply a page of abilities and talent trees.

 

Which one of them is shared between the AC's. Take any class. Remove ac class and Talent tree. Then you Have the basic 8 classes. Beyond the main story arcs for each all quests are shared. Some cases they are almost shared between factions.

[Arkhias]

ITT: People with serious mental health/control issues.

[RealAeiouy]

And, in the long run, ruins the community of players by limiting how many tanks and healers are available at hand.

 

I don't think you understand the advanced classes in this game. All advance classes can fill multiple roles.

[dadamowsky]

And this.

 

Oh yeah, because gaming is supposed to met your hard rules, to have a month or so to spend solely for reroll, to know your class and it's feel BEFORE you actually play it (lets say this straight - you don't feel your choice at least before mid 30, early 40 lvl. And you won't have full image before you hit max). Yup, that is why games exist - hard dull grind - they're not to be actually entertaining...

[Keihryon]

(lets say this straight - you don't feel your choice at least before mid 30, early 40 lvl.

 

Umm, I learned at 13 that the sentinel combat mechanics aren't to my liking. I also learned that neither the trooper nor its mirror are to my liking by level 12 or so, as well.

 

So no, not everyone needs a lot of levels to figure this out.

[Boshlord]

You are informed this choice is PERMANENT you are informed that X spec can either tank/damage heal/damage or purely damage. You are also informed the majority of skills ect are short range or long range. Honestly if the add advanced class respecs it should cost 50 million credits so you really have to think if its worth being boned out of that kind of money or better off making a new char and starting over

[dadamowsky]

Umm, I learned at 13 that the sentinel combat mechanics aren't to my liking. I also learned that neither the trooper nor its mirror are to my liking by level 12 or so, as well.

 

So no, not everyone needs a lot of levels to figure this out.

 

Lucky you. Try the same trick with smuggler, when both specs are dps oriented, and key skills comes in the 30/40 lvl.

 

You are informed this choice is PERMANENT you are informed that X spec can either tank/damage heal/damage or purely damage. You are also informed the majority of skills ect are short range or long range. Honestly if the add advanced class respecs it should cost 50 million credits so you really have to think if its worth being boned out of that kind of money or better off making a new char and starting over

 

Once again *sighs* - why? ACs - completely different classes sharing exact same leveling content - is major design flaw. Why do players have to suffer for devs mistakes? Because hardcores, awfuly lawful paladins of the rules, say so?

[Lethality]

Lucky you. Try the same trick with smuggler, when both specs are dps oriented, and key skills comes in the 30/40 lvl.

 

 

 

Once again *sighs* - why? ACs - completely different classes sharing exact same leveling content - is major design flaw. Why do players have to suffer for devs mistakes? Because hardcores, awfuly lawful paladins of the rules, say so?

 

Eh? That's how it's worked in every other game.

 

In WoW, no matter what class you are, after level 20, you're doing the rest of the leveling content the same as every other class.

 

TOR is the first game to take a class-driven "origin" experience, but I think that's part of the problem. It isn't really your combat origin, it's your story origin. But they called stories classes, so... here we are.

[dadamowsky]

Eh? That's how it's worked in every other game.

 

In WoW, no matter what class you are, after level 20, you're doing the rest of the leveling content the same as every other class.

 

TOR is the first game to take a class-driven "origin" experience, but I think that's part of the problem. It isn't really your combat origin, it's your story origin. But they called stories classes, so... here we are.

 

And that is one of main reason why I (and few others I'm aware of) were driven to TOR - the promise to play and have fun leveling through story/content, not through grind. I'd probably have nothing against simply rerolling my toon, if I had a way to make it to 50 through some new/different content. But I've got no chance for it, that is why I'd like devs to save my time and grind-powered irritation and simply allow me to change my spec. It may have some reasonable cost, it may have limitations. But no such option?

[Lethality]

And that is one of main reason why I (and few others I'm aware of) were driven to TOR - the promise to play and have fun leveling through story/content, not through grind. I'd probably have nothing against simply rerolling my toon, if I had a way to make it to 50 through some new/different content. But I've got no chance for it, that is why I'd like devs to save my time and grind-powered irritation and simply allow me to change my spec. It may have some reasonable cost, it may have limitations. But no such option?

 

But you have to understand the design intent.

 

There are 4 stories per faction. But there are 8 classes per side. The intention was to offer the variety/choice needed for MMO combat scenarios, but there's no way they could create 16 stories.

 

Listen to Daniel Erickson's explanation when we talked to him at PAX East (YouTube):

 

 

Again, if BioWare had called classes "stories", you wouldn't have the same issue I suspect.

 

Changing your actual class in an MMORPG, which is TOR's case are labeled Advanced Classes, would be detrimental to the game.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Lethality

[blakerocks]

And the people who are at level 30? Do you think they want to have to go through the same exact story and do the same exact thing to change their spec (it's not a class, ask Bioware)?

 

Honestly, if you don't like the AC you chose and are level 30 try making a new character on the opposite factions class equal. You shouldn't take 20 levels to find out you don't like your class anyways. If they allow advanced class changes then the advanced class system itself would be pointless, they may as well allow the Sith Warrior to use dual wield sabers and heavy armor at the same time.

[dadamowsky]

But you have to understand the design intent.

 

There are 4 stories per faction. But there are 8 classes per side. The intention was to offer the variety/choice needed for MMO combat scenarios, but there's no way they could create 16 stories.

 

Listen to Daniel Erickson's explanation when we talked to him at PAX East (YouTube):

 

 

I love good stories yet I am fully aware, that making 16 storylines is an effort (and cash-consuming process). Still I support geting the grind out of MMO and every story oriented approach is only to be praised. But I can't understand decision to strip the player from such simple option, fixing problem with lack of additional content.

 

Again, if BioWare had called classes "stories", you wouldn't have the same issue I suspect.

Don't bet on it . I've been avoiding classic, WoW-like MMOs for the reason of grinding. Tried once and was bored enough to never love this system. Yet I always loved the community online playing (like on some shards of UO, persistent worlds of NWN and NWN2, and such). There was something tempting in EVE, where the players and their organisations have so much freedom in creating the world's balance. I've decided for TOR hoping to get good story, and online experience... in SW world. And definetly not to get grinding to check options given to me. So no matter how it were called, I'd vote for respec anyway

 

Changing your actual class in an MMORPG, which is TOR's case are labeled Advanced Classes, would be detrimental to the game.

How? Besides, if this were true, we should vote for no re-talenting, since every AC has few different approaches.

[Lethality]

How? Besides, if this were true, we should vote for no re-talenting, since every AC has few different approaches.

 

No, because re-talenting occurs within your class.

 

i.e. you can use the same weapons, same armor, same abilities, etc. In TOR, they've given enough flexibility for more than one role within an Advanced Class, which is more than other games have given in general.

 

That's actually another reason there doesn't need to be AC switching. If you get tired of healing or tanking, you have a DPS spec you can switch to.

[dadamowsky]

AC switch is also within your class . Besides you still did not respond why it would be detrimental. Edited January 15, 2012 by dadamowsky

[Kourage]

1 Time change, must do it by level 20.

 

/sign

[DarthKhaos]

Hasnt bioware already said they are not even considering doing this? Why do we still see posts... Advanced Class is a CLASS onto itself that shares some abilities with the Starting beginning class. If you rolled a Marauder you're a marauder for life. Reroll and save yourself some time on the forums.

Because they're hoping if they wine enough they'll get what they want now.

 

The fact is that marauder is NOT the same as a Juggernaut. One uses medium armor one uses heavy. It goes deeper than that and some abilities. It's the mechanics of how resources work and other things. When you respec talents the base core of the AC remains the same but changing AC the base core changes.

 

I dare anyone to tell me the base mechanics of a Sniper/Gunslinger is the same as an Operative/Scoundrel that the Assassin/Shadow is the same as the Sorcerer/Sage.

 

Your argument about "I don't want to do the same class story again" is nul. There are different ways to level other than doing the class story. To be honest the only reason you have to do the class story or quests in general is if you want to get companions and/or craft. EVEN if you have to do the class stories again so what. EVERY other MMO you make 5 alts you got to do the same crap for ALL 5 alts. This game only if you make an alt of the same base class otherwise it's different class stories. And if you REALLY want a different class story roll the opposite faction.

 

I've been promised not to be forced to make nerdy, no-life'y, and dull grind (main reason of my avoidance and/or giving up most MMOs). I've been promised not to be bored by stomping virtual grass-hopper to get my 0.0001 xp over and over again to gain lvl 2 peasant (vide Jolly Jack's sequential art ).

You were also promised that YOUR CHARACTER CHOICES will have an impact and cannot be undone. Funny you seem to forget that.

 

 

It's simple you either like your Gunslinger or not. Re-roll or continue. If you don't got time to play alts don't, but most important:

If this is too game breaking for you remember YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PLAY it is your choice.

[Dystopic]

I do not want this. I would prefer dual spec within a given AC, but not being able to respec ACs. To me, a shadaw and a sage are no longer the same class. They started out as consulars and changed into something different. I also feel that this would change the game from feeling like it has eight classes to 4. Edited January 15, 2012 by Dystopic