Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[Derbefrier]

i am completely against it for reasons already discussed. i hope Bioware has enough sense not to listen to this crap

[aznthecapn]

Allow you to change your advanced class as many times as you want for a scaling credit cost based on your level. The higher your level, the more it should cost (think 2500 credits per level) but whatever AC you are when you ding 50, that's what you're stuck with. I'd even allow you to change your AC withing 48 hours of hitting 50 for those who just turn in quests blindly and accidentally hit 50 in the wrong AC.

 

But at max level, hell no. It should be a tool for those who wish to explore their preferred AC as they level and decide which they like the most. It should not be a way for people to swap to the FOTM AC.

[MajikMyst]

No to AC switching..

 

In the simplest of terms.. If you selected your AC during character creation before level 1, this thread wouldn't exist.. Bioware gave us 10 levels and sneek peak into both classes that are available to you.. Before you select, you can view the talent trees, see the perfered armor type and weapons.. If you still feel you made a mistake.. You will need to reroll.. This should never change..

 

AC switching should never be allowed.. Your AC is your class..

[spencer_]

here's my thought on the subject. If you allow AC respec, it needs to be expensive and or difficult. Unlike skill trees, this was a major decision and is supposed to be serious business. I think you should be able to purchase 1 time use "Rakatan memory spikes" (concept mentioned in the riptide novel that came out a while back). This memory spike removes your memories of training up to your advanced class and replaces them with memories of someone elses training in the other advanced class (this would be the story explanation).

 

These spikes could either be sold at special very hard to find vendors who don't show up on the map and occasionally move around or perhaps found as an extremely rare drop in flashpoints (giving people reason to do more flashpoints). They would also require a rakata energy cube to power, which means you would need to at least be on belsavis or have an alt on belsavis to get one to work.

[tiguelinus]

Bioware,

 

Please allow Advanced Class Respec. There's no reason for this, give players the choice! If you're worried it will hurt your story or something - don't. You don't seem to care you send Jedi to go slaughter hundreds of Sand People, so why care about something that is needlessly restricting players?

 

Thanks!

 

 

THINGS TO CONSIDER:

 

1. An Advanced Class is separate from a Class in SWTOR. Support: http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes

2. Players deserve freedom, especially when it doesn't effect you in any way.

3. Given the same choices, a player's story, companions and ship is exactly the same regardless of your AC.

4. Just because you enjoy making 16 alts doesn't mean the player next to you does.

5. There's many legitimate reasons why a player at any level might need to respec AC's. It does not mean they are lazy/stupid.

 

ALSO:

 

Links showing Bioware has supported this idea...

 

WATCH:

 

Thanks to Salzwasser for the link.

 

...and more recently, read: http://torwars.com/2011/12/01/stephen-reid-on-advanced-class-switching/

 

POLL HERE: http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=4f1285a6c2e1b0e46168c294

 

I agree, we should be able to respec our advance class even at least once.

[Ragearo]

Allow you to change your advanced class as many times as you want for a scaling credit cost based on your level. The higher your level, the more it should cost (think 2500 credits per level) but whatever AC you are when you ding 50, that's what you're stuck with. I'd even allow you to change your AC withing 48 hours of hitting 50 for those who just turn in quests blindly and accidentally hit 50 in the wrong AC.

 

But at max level, hell no. It should be a tool for those who wish to explore their preferred AC as they level and decide which they like the most. It should not be a way for people to swap to the FOTM AC.

 

This actually seems quite brilliant as I think most people realize they wish they chose the other AC before they reach max level.

 

Edit: I was thinking on this, and I feel like what people want to avoid is someone being able to switch just for a fight or a different activity at level cap, which should be avoided. The cost of switching should be enough to dissuade that - perhaps an experience penalty?

Edited January 23, 2012 by Ragearo

[Frostvein]

I'd really like this as well but I don't see them doing this.

 

I'd like it if they even made it a subclass kind of thing - lvl 50 Sage, lvl 1Shadow. Etc.

[vandana_]

Please never allow Advanced Class respec / dual spec. The choice of your class should be a meaningful one and satisfaction from getting your character to 50 would disappear if you could just switch things around as you please.

 

You don't want to get through the same story again? Try other side of the force / levelling through flashpoints / PvP. There is plenty of choices yet you choose to have the access to another class given on a plate.

Edited January 24, 2012 by vandana_

[Primalis]

/notsigned

[DaxRendar]

At most I could see 1 AC Switch available up until level 20 and nothing beyond that.

 

Regardless of the OP's opinions/feelings/interpretation of BW posts, ACs in effect are Classes with very distinct playstyles and abilities compared to their "paired" Base Class.

 

One early Respec would allow people to correct a "mistake" choice without having to completely start over, but anything beyond that really doesn't make sense in how they have set up the game

[aznthecapn]

Please never allow [...] dual spec. The choice of your class should be a meaningful one and satisfaction from getting your character to 50 would disappear if you could just switch things around as you please.

 

Don't include dual spec in this. Dual spec is just something that makes something you can already do easier (change spec). AC swapping is not currently available and should not be beyond swapping a few times while leveling to decide which AC you prefer. Should not be allowed at max level.

[Rolllling]

Being able to switch your advanced class is the most absurd thing I have heard. Edited January 24, 2012 by Rolllling

[DaxRendar]

Being able to switch your advanced call is the most absurd thing I have heard.

 

The request for Empire players to "auto-magically" get a lvl 50 Republic character to balance PvP still tops the list for me...

 

...oh wait, there's also the request for BioWare to switch SWTOR to the Unreal Engine overnight, and the one asking to merge all Servers into a single "Mega-Server" where we all play together...

 

Yeah sorry, this isn't close to the most absurd request...

 

But it is a pretty bad one

[Scibraxxon]

I understand the "NO switching AC's," but please give us 16 total toon slots per server so we have the option to have 1 of every AC. I like to play Republic and Empire sides.

[Marasme]

no. wait for legacy and reroll.

 

adv. class. respec supports ninjaing and bad players (I need for off-spec, and I don't care its for ur main spec' for example).

Edited January 24, 2012 by Marasme

[HKFortyEight]

AC respecs(aka changing classes) is something that really shouldn't be in the game you are told that it is permanent and you should be able to tell you don't like the class quickly if it takes you till lvl 50 to find out you don't like it something is wrong with you not the way the game works.

 

Just to point this out as well for all we know Bioware could be planning to split the story based on the AC you pick having got the game out they could do a multitude of things with coming expansions.

Edited January 25, 2012 by HKFortyEight

[nitaant]

The stories are the same until a certain point, and the stories are a big thing in this mmo. I just made a sage and want to do shadow instead (or did, anyway). No way I am going through the same storyline all over again so soon after I have done it once.

 

They are not an entirely different class - many of the base skills are the same and the storyline is the same.

 

You cannot compare it to wow because there are no storylines, and classes are cross faction and cross race, allowing for a different experience.

 

Having to go through the same story and worlds again is not fun. And they ARE advanced classes, and not entirely different playstyles - you are not giving a jedi a gun. Considering this games slow leveling process (much slower than wow, and I am not talking about grindfest skip everything to level nonsense. Leveling should have a reasonable pace even with a relaxed gaming attitude), I support the idea for two - and only two - class respecs. One to check out the other option, and one to change back if you want to.

 

Call it alternate dimension self inquiry in the story line or something - a what if scenario that magically gets re-introduced into your main line because the 'force feels you would be a greater service if you remained this way'.

 

The AC storylines different would be a problem though.

 

Perhaps they should introduce a system where at 10 you are given the option of seeing how the force is with you at a certain playstyle. Be class A's apprentice or class B's, and after about 10-15 hours worth of gameplay you can make a choice or 'try the other', erasing your memory.

Edited January 25, 2012 by nitaant

[Sabarok]

The stories are the same until a certain point, and the stories are a big thing in this mmo. I just made a sage and want to do shadow instead (or did, anyway). No way I am going through the same storyline all over again so soon after I have done it once.

 

They are not an entirely different class - many of the base skills are the same and the storyline is the same.

 

You cannot compare it to wow because there are no storylines, and classes are cross faction and cross race, allowing for a different experience.

 

Having to go through the same story and worlds again is not fun. And they ARE advanced classes, and not entirely different playstyles - you are not giving a jedi a gun. Considering this games slow leveling process (much slower than wow, and I am not talking about grindfest skip everything to level nonsense. Leveling should have a reasonable pace even with a relaxed gaming attitude), I support the idea for two - and only two - class respecs. One to check out the other option, and one to change back if you want to.

 

Call it alternate dimension self inquiry in the story line or something - a what if scenario that magically gets re-introduced into your main line because the 'force feels you would be a greater service if you remained this way'.

 

The AC storylines different would be a problem though.

 

Perhaps they should introduce a system where at 10 you are given the option of seeing how the force is with you at a certain playstyle. Be class A's apprentice or class B's, and after about 10-15 hours worth of gameplay you can make a choice or 'try the other', erasing your memory.

 

In any other MMO, if you want to try a new class, you have to do ALL quests all over again. If Bioware had been lazy and only made factional quests instead of class quests, would that be justification to swap between BH and Sith without rerolling simply because you'd be "doing the faction quest all over"? As it stands now, the class quest is the only unique thing to the advanced classes. Every other quest is shared, so when you leave a BH and roll a Sith, 80% of the quests are going to be done all over again.

 

Not only do the ACs have a different list of abilities & skills, they also have access to different weapons, and some use different armour. Other MMOs have it so you have 8 choices at character creation. SWTOR gave you half the choices up front, the other half later.

 

It's 3-4 hours to get to level 10 to choose an AC. You gave the 10-15 hour range as a valid range, and the time it takes to get to level 10 fits in there. You spend 15 hours playing a character, and more than 10 hours of that is with the AC. Don't like it, another 15 hours on the other AC. If you don't like either AC, should Bioware give you a free character of another class just because of all the hours you spent trying to figure out what you like most?

 

"Needing to repeat 20% of the content" isn't a very useful argument when you're still repeating the other 80% of the content anyway. Other MMOs never offered that 20% to begin with.

 

Here's an alternative idea, let's see how popular it is: Once you reach level 10 on a particular class, the Legacy system lets you create level 10 characters of that same class. Bioware has said that the Legacy system would introduce new character creation options. The Legacy aspect would limit it to the same server, which isn't anything that AC Respec would have anyway.

[Kazmtyh]

I'm all for a AC change. If you're under level 20, and only once.

 

Otherwise.... No.

[nitaant]

In any other MMO, if you want to try a new class, you have to do ALL quests all over again. If Bioware had been lazy and only made factional quests instead of class quests, would that be justification to swap between BH and Sith without rerolling simply because you'd be "doing the faction quest all over"? As it stands now, the class quest is the only unique thing to the advanced classes. Every other quest is shared, so when you leave a BH and roll a Sith, 80% of the quests are going to be done all over again.

 

Not only do the ACs have a different list of abilities & skills, they also have access to different weapons, and some use different armour. Other MMOs have it so you have 8 choices at character creation. SWTOR gave you half the choices up front, the other half later.

 

It's 3-4 hours to get to level 10 to choose an AC. You gave the 10-15 hour range as a valid range, and the time it takes to get to level 10 fits in there. You spend 15 hours playing a character, and more than 10 hours of that is with the AC. Don't like it, another 15 hours on the other AC. If you don't like either AC, should Bioware give you a free character of another class just because of all the hours you spent trying to figure out what you like most?

 

"Needing to repeat 20% of the content" isn't a very useful argument when you're still repeating the other 80% of the content anyway. Other MMOs never offered that 20% to begin with.

 

Here's an alternative idea, let's see how popular it is: Once you reach level 10 on a particular class, the Legacy system lets you create level 10 characters of that same class. Bioware has said that the Legacy system would introduce new character creation options. The Legacy aspect would limit it to the same server, which isn't anything that AC Respec would have anyway.

 

This is good. Didn't occur to me, for some reason, that only 20% of the quests are class based. It is true. It does take a little longer than 3-4 hours to get to 10 though. If you play at a reasonable, relaxed pace and don't rush through the conversations at light speed.

 

I was around level 5 after 2 and a half hours of playing another consular at a fairly quick and continuous pace. The quest locations are rather far from each other.

[Matteuz]

Again, if you are going to compare to other games then also take into consideration that other games you get to play your class from level 1, even if you have limited set of abilities after an hour or so you have a basic feel for the class and see if it's a playstyle you like or not. In SWTOR you make the choice around level 10 after having invested hours into your character and story, this is the main difference and what makes it a tough and sometime regreting choice.

[WarlordThuran]

Bioware said it best themselves why respecc is necessary. Check the video on the very first page: "It's a huge decision and we don't want you to make the wrong one and end up being stuck with it." Even they recognised that you could not at level 10 know 100% which pick was the right one for you, and they also had the best solution back then:

 

First time you respecc, it's not overly expensive.

After that, costs a helluva lot of money. This in turn keeps you from swapping on the fly and limits it to only cases where you really have ended up picking the wrong sub-class for your character.

 

Also, there is a reason talent trees can be changed, say you rolled a juggernaught and picked vengeance tree because you wanted to DPS rather than tank, and couldn't respecc at all, would you be equally happy with that? Because that is exactly the same thing as picking if you want to go Tanking or healing with your trooper for instance.

[Furfle]

I believe what the OP wants and the reasoning the game dev offered in the video are different. OP apparently wants to switch classes once hes bored (as it seems to me) and what devs are saying is that they dont want you to do that starting zone again because you've picked the wrong class.

 

Dude, if that is the reason just offer a gameplay preview of the class or something in game to people see how the class will play out. I dont want to see people starting the day as tanks, switching to healing on the afternoon and dpsing at night. That would be ****

[Sabarok]

Bioware said it best themselves why respecc is necessary. Check the video on the very first page: "It's a huge decision and we don't want you to make the wrong one and end up being stuck with it." Even they recognised that you could not at level 10 know 100% which pick was the right one for you, and they also had the best solution back then:

 

First time you respecc, it's not overly expensive.

After that, costs a helluva lot of money. This in turn keeps you from swapping on the fly and limits it to only cases where you really have ended up picking the wrong sub-class for your character.

 

Also, there is a reason talent trees can be changed, say you rolled a juggernaught and picked vengeance tree because you wanted to DPS rather than tank, and couldn't respecc at all, would you be equally happy with that? Because that is exactly the same thing as picking if you want to go Tanking or healing with your trooper for instance.

 

I rolled an Agent, wasted 10 hours realizing Sniper wasn't the class I wanted, I don't like the faction, and the companion sucks. Can I respec to Jedi Guardian so I don't have to do any quests all over again? I wanted to be DPS, but it's no fun and I'd rather be tank, and it's so boring and so slow doing everything all over again just because I want to be a different class.

[Kashaan]

No.

 

There is absolutely no argument that can be made to justify allowing you to change your class.

 

That would be like asking to be able to change your Level 50 Mage into a Level 50 Warrior. It makes absolutely zero sense.

 

There is only one MMO that allows you to change classes, which is FFXI (and technically, FFXIV). BUT, you start over at level 1 when you do (though you do keep the accumulated levels once you "re-level" up.)