Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[aznthecapn]

Allowing AC respec should stop when you get to 50 and, until then, cost 3,000 credits multiplied by your current level. This will allow you to explore your options between the advanced classes without destroying the AC system at max level.

[PlayboyBandit]

I agree with both sides. I feel these AC are unique in themselves. However, I feel you should have a short amount of time to adjust and learn if the play style if right for you. I have a 50 Jugg, and i have spent over 1mil credits respecing tank and dps back and forth for raiding. I am fine with this. I also have a 30 sith inq, I enjoy this class as well, but wanted to try out the jedi side yesterday. I leveled to lvl 10 last night then logged. I got on this morning to select advanced class and I spent around 30min looking at them before choosing, in the end I choose shadow because I love to tank and the tanking tree looked beautiful. However after playing this class for a few hours now, the play style is so different than what my preference is. Alot of people might say hey you have a melee tank its the same, but its really not. shadow has ranged abilities as well as melee and some can only be used behind the target or w/e the case is. This is, to MY play style, maybe not some of you, much like DK tanking in WOW, very micro managing. I like to pay attention to everything around me and dont want to spend most of my time dancing around a target or anything whether solo/pve/pvp. Granted I am still below level 15, but I know what I do and do not like. I am about to delete this character and remake JUST to go jedi sent. However I feel that you should have a trial period, say from level 10 to level 15 where you can change your advanced class 3-5 times to figure out what style you prefer. Once you hit 15 you get asked if you wish to change your advanced spec or keep it as you will never be able to change it again. It is very hard to just "read" about 2 completely different class styles and choose permanently and forever. Give a short time frame to find out what you enjoy more. This is a game, let us figure out how we want to best enjoy it before being made to choose which AC we want to play. This is my opinion, and I am not happy that I will have to spend the 8 hours or so getting to level 10 again. And before ppl QQ about 8 hours, realize not everyone is you. I have a 19month old son who i let sit in my lap and run around as he constantly is around me. Unless he is sleeping or I am playing with him in his room or in the back yard, he likes to do whatever it is I am doing. And besides I love the story and exploring, just hate having to repeat it, let alone go through the same area when I make my knight, thank god for class story making it slightly unique.

[Sabarok]

I agree with both sides. I feel these AC are unique in themselves. However, I feel you should have a short amount of time to adjust and learn if the play style if right for you. I have a 50 Jugg, and i have spent over 1mil credits respecing tank and dps back and forth for raiding. I am fine with this. I also have a 30 sith inq, I enjoy this class as well, but wanted to try out the jedi side yesterday. I leveled to lvl 10 last night then logged. I got on this morning to select advanced class and I spent around 30min looking at them before choosing, in the end I choose shadow because I love to tank and the tanking tree looked beautiful. However after playing this class for a few hours now, the play style is so different than what my preference is. Alot of people might say hey you have a melee tank its the same, but its really not. shadow has ranged abilities as well as melee and some can only be used behind the target or w/e the case is. This is, to MY play style, maybe not some of you, much like DK tanking in WOW, very micro managing. I like to pay attention to everything around me and dont want to spend most of my time dancing around a target or anything whether solo/pve/pvp. Granted I am still below level 15, but I know what I do and do not like. I am about to delete this character and remake JUST to go jedi sent. However I feel that you should have a trial period, say from level 10 to level 15 where you can change your advanced class 3-5 times to figure out what style you prefer. Once you hit 15 you get asked if you wish to change your advanced spec or keep it as you will never be able to change it again. It is very hard to just "read" about 2 completely different class styles and choose permanently and forever. Give a short time frame to find out what you enjoy more. This is a game, let us figure out how we want to best enjoy it before being made to choose which AC we want to play. This is my opinion, and I am not happy that I will have to spend the 8 hours or so getting to level 10 again. And before ppl QQ about 8 hours, realize not everyone is you. I have a 19month old son who i let sit in my lap and run around as he constantly is around me. Unless he is sleeping or I am playing with him in his room or in the back yard, he likes to do whatever it is I am doing. And besides I love the story and exploring, just hate having to repeat it, let alone go through the same area when I make my knight, thank god for class story making it slightly unique.

 

Would it not be best for both sides of the argument if you were simply able to create a level 10 Sith Inquisitor once you already have a level 10 Sith Inquisitor? It would eliminate the 3 hours of "tutorial" that is level 1-10. Other MMOs allow you to skip the early part of the game after you have done it once.

 

SWTOR is also unique in that it gives you 4 unique stories per faction instead of 1, with each advanced class sharing a unique story with 1 other advanced class, and to make this simplification understandable, they had the 2 advanced classes share commonalities so players would understand why they have a shared story. How else would Bioware create 8 unique stories (4 per faction) while still having enough variety in the class options. Also, the class story only makes up about 20% of the stories. The rest of them you have to do over no matter what factional AC you choose.

[Mormoz]

I agree, however it is for more personal reasons.

 

I love to play the healer and I decided to make a Sorcerer, because I thought I'd like that the most. I also decided to make an Imperial Agent, which looked nice aswel, as an alt. Since I already had a healer I chose for the Sniper advanced class instead. Now, I have come to realise I prefer Imperial Agent way more than any other class and I find that the healing mechanics for IA are more appealing than the Sorcerer's (for me atleast). My Sniper is almost level 50 now and I loved the story and the levelling, however I regret that I did not make her an Operative.

 

So now, I'd give a lot for an AC respec for my IA. If this won't be happening, then I will make a second IA (Operative this time of course), but I really don't want to do the entire class story again, although it was really nice, it will lack the excitement of the first time. I know that I won't really enjoy levelling this second IA all the way to 50.

[Greywinter]

ACs might have different talents but they are not independent classes. AC swithing should be allowed in the game for an in-game cost. Dont you bring in paid AC change, Bioware / EA.

 

Besides when you will switch AC ............... say, from Scoundrel to Gunslinger, you will be using only Gunslinger talents, its not like you will be using both scoundrel and gunslinger talents.

 

Would you rather pay 100,000 in-game credits for AC change or $30? AC change is going to be there, whether for real money cost or in-game monetary cost, its up to you guys to decide. If you keep saying we dont need it, then it will be introduced as paid AC change where you will have to pay real money for it, but if vast majority of players agree that we need it for an in-game cost, then there is a chance we might be able to get this additional option for an in-game cost. People who are saying they dont want AC change, you may also get tired of playing the same AC after some time, what will you do then? Would you rather pay $30 for it? Won't it be nice if the option is available for an in-game monetary cost.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Greywinter

[Drake_Maddox]

My opinion to this is that, at the time you need to choose the advanced class, you should be able to try the class first. Like for example you can try out the Sith Assassin for say three minutes, having abilities only the assassin has . Don't like it try out the sorcerer and vice versa, if we had an option like this people would be content with their decision because they had a taste for the other side.

[FoUZeroEnna]

Would you say that a Knight and a Barbarian are two different classes?

 

I believe most peoples answers should be yes. They are two different classes. But are they not both called warriors? And why are they called warriors? They are both called warriors because they both trained in the basic skills needed to be a warrior when they were younger but sometime in their life one of them decided to focus all of his/her time and energy into learning how to use and fight in heavy armor and use various different weapons such as a broad sword, halberd, lance.

 

The other decided that he wanted to focus less on defense and more on offense so he chose to learn the ways to the two-handed sword, two-handed axes and instead of wearing heavy cumbersome armor he chose to wear very light armor so that he could be agile and quick on his feet while he swung the very heavy two handed weapons around.

 

Every class has a base class. A point at which they start and since Sith Juggernaught and Sith Marauder have very similar attributes and abilities early on in their careers they start out as just a warrior. But after one focuses all of ones time and effort into something they cannot just simply master something else at the blink of an eye.

 

The only way I would even think of allowing an advanced class re-spec is if that character had their level dropped to at least 15 when they re-spec. No matter if that character is 50 or not. The whole reason someone is able to become a Master(LvL 50) is because they put the time and effort into training all of their abilities and skills and gaining experience through battle.

 

A base class does not determine someones final class.

 

Here is another example for the road. A made up class for a made up game.

 

Base Class: Swordsman

Advanced Class Options: Samurai - Ninja - Fencer - Swashbuckler - 2H Sword Master

 

My point is that a persons advanced class is actually their class.

 

EDIT: Also guys. Read up on each of the Advanced Classes, watch videos on them, look at the trees and abilities and then decide what you want to be. And it only takes about 3 hours to get to level 10 and try a new spec anyway so I mean come on. Advanced respecs would cause so many issues and even if implemented should be a one time deal.

Edited January 29, 2012 by FoUZeroEnna

[MajikMyst]

[citation needed]

 

I know most of the people in my guild would love being able to respec between AC's.

 

No citation needed.. Try reading this very thread.. It shouldn't be to hard..

 

But if you really want it..

 

Click here!!

Edited January 29, 2012 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

I rarely use Starfire on my feral druid in WoW, and why would I ever go into cat and use Claw when I'm resto?

 

It was made up after an "extensive" look at Torhead's listing of class abilities that are shared or exclusive to certain AC's.

 

Just as I wouldn't stack intelligence on my Prot Paladin but would have it on troves as Holy

 

 

There's a pretty clear and present difference, you are just willfully ignorant to it.

 

I am not really sure what your issue is here..

 

Druid is a class and has 3 three talent trees.. At least until Mist of Pandera comes out, then there won't be any trees on any class.. Each tree allows for a different spec.. Resto, Feral, and so forth..

 

That does not apply to SWTOR.. A sentinel has 3 talent trees and Guardians also have three talent trees.. Sure they share one tree with eachother.. Both are still very much a different class.. One wears Heavy armor and the other wears medium armor.. Tactics used are completely different..

 

So please explain to all of us.. Why should bioware cut the number of classes in half?? For what purpose?? Doesn't it kind of negate the purpose of having specs or class at all if we can simply change them whenever we please?? How about we all go back to Halo where we can all be the Master Chief.. No class or specs there.. You all should be happy..

 

Again, there no reason for AC switching.. None in the slightest.. If people are to lazy to simply role another character.. Perhaps an MMO is not for you..

 

Nobody can switch from being a Warlock to a mage.. Both wear cloth, both have a fire talent tree, and both use very simular tactics and both have the same roles.. Sure.. The fire tree for a lock is called destruction.. But they are still different classes.. A mage is simply a lock without pets..

 

Wow comparisons are lame because I never heard anyone demanding to be able change their warrior or deathknight to a paladin.. Or a paladin to a DK.. They are all different classes.. Just like the AC is here..

Edited January 29, 2012 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

ACs might have different talents but they are not independent classes.

 

Let's start here.. Explain why they are not independent classes.. Because most here disagree with that and basically what you are asking for is a class change.. On what basis should Bioware allow us to change our classes??

 

Your AC is your class and the authority (Bioware) has already identified them as such..

 

So if you want to claim otherwise.. We are going to need more than just your say so.. Sorry..

[Papakeno]

No. Please, no.

[KTheAlchemist]

There needs to be something like this for newcomers to the game. I'd probably suggest the following:

 

Level 20: Free AC Respec. May be used at any time, but is one-use only.

Level 40: Same as level 20

Level 50: AC Respecs must be purchased, at an extremely high cost.

[DizzyrupTor]

Do...not...want.....

 

 

On a serious note. NO! is the word.

 

Just no....

[Heggs]

First off let me say that I am Pro respec, one time only before lvl 21. Some of the posts in this and other threads are just muppets arguing semantics etc.

 

So I have a question for the Anti-Respec people

 

Why do you think this would break your game ?

 

I see people for/against addons in the other thread, Im against addons BUT if/when they are introduced it wont phase me that much and it certainly wouldnt be game breaking for me unless I had NO CHOICE but to use them.

 

At the end of the day people are asking for the ability to change their mind or possibly just try something different.Im all for that .

[Sabarok]

First off let me say that I am Pro respec, one time only before lvl 21. Some of the posts in this and other threads are just muppets arguing semantics etc.

 

So I have a question for the Anti-Respec people

 

Why do you think this would break your game ?

 

I see people for/against addons in the other thread, Im against addons BUT if/when they are introduced it wont phase me that much and it certainly wouldnt be game breaking for me unless I had NO CHOICE but to use them.

 

At the end of the day people are asking for the ability to change their mind or possibly just try something different.Im all for that .

 

The whole "one time only before <x> level" is meaningless, not only because few pro-reset can agree on when, but once the hard part of the technical aspect is implemented, it becomes a "We already have it for <x> level, why not raise it to <y> level? I missed changing my AC by 1 level and now I'm stuck forever!?"

 

As for your question, it devalues the game. It breaks the game in the exact same way that leveling a Juggernaut to 50 and then switching classes to a level 50 Operative would. I have never seen an MMO that let you level 1 class and then just gave you another class for free. The closest I've seen is FF XI where you can switch classes at will, but their whole system is designed around it, and you still need to level up each class individually. If you have a level 20 Black Mage and want to go healer, you're sent back to level 1 in order to level up your White Mage class.

 

It breaks the game because one player spends 50 levels working on a Sorceror and then gets an Assassin for free. Once you have reset your AC, most of your abilities are gone and some of your equipment can no longer be worn. You go to the class trainer, and there's a bunch of new abilities to buy. It is very clearly a class change, even though SWTOR calls it the "Advanced Class".

 

It breaks the game because it renders the entire concept of an Advanced Class meaningless. If you're going to have 2 ACs with switching between them, you might as well replace it with something that will work more efficiently, like dual spec would for the skill tree. Resetting the skill tree requires going back to the trainer to reset, but it hasn't stopped threads saying that dual spec is "needed". All this will do is start the threads for "dual AC spec". Bioware already drew the line at where resets can happen and the permanency of your choice.

 

If you want to have both classes, you need to earn them both times. You can't do the work once and then get the other for free.

 

The most the "pro-AC reset" are likely to get to help them in their "I don't wanna do the class quest over again" will be letting them create the alternate AC starting at level 10. You skip the part you've already done, but you need to earn the AC. So what if you're doing the class quest over again. You're also doing every other quest over again like every other class & MMO.

 

I have a level 50 Sorc I've worked hard on and put in lots of hours and I don't want to do all the levels over and do all those planetary quests again, it's boring doing the same quests over. Why can't Bioware just let me start an operative at level 50? I don't care about the class quests, I just want to try a different gameplay style. It's no fair that I was stuck with my class choice since I created the character.

 

If you were to take the Class Quest out of the game, would it still be justifiable for ACs to switch? Why should the addition of more story be a valid reason to throw half the classes out the window? Every other argument used to try and support an AC reset would also apply when arguing for a base class reset. Once we have the ability to create level 10s of the base class, it will be much more obvious that AC also stands for the Actual Class.

[Heggs]

Interesting reply man, thank you.

[Mormoz]

How about a compromise? How about if you made it some kind of reward in your Legacy? Lets say, when your Legacy reaches a certain level you can choose for an AC respec for one of your characters. Like that it doesn't break the game at all, since it would only be a one-time thing for one class. It wouldn't really solve the entire problem either, because it's a one-time only, yet I think a lot of people, including myself, would be very satisfied with this solution. Edited January 29, 2012 by Mormoz

[aznthecapn]

How about a compromise? How about if you made it some kind of reward in your Legacy? Lets say, when your Legacy reaches a certain level you can choose for an AC respec for one of your characters. Like that it doesn't break the game at all, since it would only be a one-time thing for one class. It wouldn't really solve the entire problem either, because it's a one-time only, yet I think a lot of people, including myself, would be very satisfied with this solution.

 

There is no problem to solve and no need for compromise. Changing AC once you're at max level is unnecessary. Changing it as you level should be highly restrictive and used purely for play testing the two ACs to see which you will prefer at 50. Beyond that, there's no need for it.

[Sabarok]

How about a compromise? How about if you made it some kind of reward in your Legacy? Lets say, when your Legacy reaches a certain level you can choose for an AC respec for one of your characters. Like that it doesn't break the game at all, since it would only be a one-time thing for one class. It wouldn't really solve the entire problem either, because it's a one-time only, yet I think a lot of people, including myself, would be very satisfied with this solution.

 

Why stop at AC respect for one character? Why not a full class change for one character? That can't break the game since it would only be a one-time thing for one character. Why should I have to do all the planetary quests all over again just to have a level 50 of a different class?

 

The compromise is the Legacy system allowing you to have a level 10 of that other AC. You get to skip the starter world & the parts you've already done as the base class, but you still need to earn every level of your new AC. The best part is you don't lose your old character.

 

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this came included in the initial offering when the Legacy system gets turned on in the next few months. Bioware has said "new character creation options", and this is one that makes a lot of sense and won't come with much opposition.

[Mormoz]

There is no problem to solve and no need for compromise. Changing AC once you're at max level is unnecessary. Changing it as you level should be highly restrictive and used purely for play testing the two ACs to see which you will prefer at 50. Beyond that, there's no need for it.

 

If there was no problem, this thread wouldn't be here. And what about the people that have already reached 50 before having had a chance to try out their other AC? Sorry for having played the game to early?

[Mormoz]

Why stop at AC respect for one character? Why not a full class change for one character? That can't break the game since it would only be a one-time thing for one character. Why should I have to do all the planetary quests all over again just to have a level 50 of a different class?

 

The compromise is the Legacy system allowing you to have a level 10 of that other AC. You get to skip the starter world & the parts you've already done as the base class, but you still need to earn every level of your new AC. The best part is you don't lose your old character.

 

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this came included in the initial offering when the Legacy system gets turned on in the next few months. Bioware has said "new character creation options", and this is one that makes a lot of sense and won't come with much opposition.

 

The one-time change for one character wouldn't really break the game as you said, because it will be pretty much restricted to one time per account, unless you're playing on different servers. That definetely isn't much and thats something entirely different when everyone could change their AC whenever they wanted, even if it is for a very high price.

 

So my point is, there wouldn't be a real issue, the way I see it, for the people that are against the AC change, yet they who do want it will get something.

[Sabarok]

The one-time change for one character wouldn't really break the game as you said, because it will be pretty much restricted to one time per account, unless you're playing on different servers. That definetely isn't much and thats something entirely different when everyone could change their AC whenever they wanted, even if it is for a very high price.

 

So my point is, there wouldn't be a real issue, the way I see it, for the people that are against the AC change, yet they who do want it will get something.

 

The hard part is developing the feature. Putting all the developer time into making it happen just for a "one time use only" would be a waste of resources. Not only that, but once the feature is available, it will be a non-stop flood from the same pro-AC-reset group constantly asking for those limits to be raised. Once the feature is there, the game mechanic would be deemed 'acceptable', and there wouldn't be any reason to have limits.

 

Make no mistake, this is the same as a full on class change in any other MMO. Resetting your AC would involve removing all your equipment, giving you new starter equipment, deleting all the AC specific abilities from your shortcut bar & character ability list, replacing your skill tree with a new one, and giving you a new set of abilities to buy from the skill trainer. You now have a whole new character in which to learn how to play. Changing your base class is the same as above, except also resetting your class quest, removing the base abilities as well, & removing your companions.

 

If Bioware is going to do all the work of the former, why stop there and not just finish it off and include the latter? Either way, you're getting a new playable class that's not earned.

[Touchbass]

I don't think there should be an AC change, maybe a situational one but we'll have to see on it. The only problem without having a AC is the game is too damn bloody linear to play a duplicate storyline.

[Mormoz]

The hard part is developing the feature. Putting all the developer time into making it happen just for a "one time use only" would be a waste of resources. Not only that, but once the feature is available, it will be a non-stop flood from the same pro-AC-reset group constantly asking for those limits to be raised. Once the feature is there, the game mechanic would be deemed 'acceptable', and there wouldn't be any reason to have limits.

 

Make no mistake, this is the same as a full on class change in any other MMO. Resetting your AC would involve removing all your equipment, giving you new starter equipment, deleting all the AC specific abilities from your shortcut bar & character ability list, replacing your skill tree with a new one, and giving you a new set of abilities to buy from the skill trainer. You now have a whole new character in which to learn how to play. Changing your base class is the same as above, except also resetting your class quest, removing the base abilities as well, & removing your companions.

 

If Bioware is going to do all the work of the former, why stop there and not just finish it off and include the latter? Either way, you're getting a new playable class that's not earned.

 

It should of course stay with one, so you're right there.

However, why would all your equipment have to be removed? There are only a few key items that seperate AC's from eachother and about stats, that would be upto you to switch your main attribute, however this will only be necessary when your new AC would be a tank, or the other way around. Replacing the Skill Tree shouldn't take that much effort and of course you will need to buy all your new AC skills again, which will be costy.

 

So, if they would implement an AC change, it will take a lot of effort from you aswel, even after the change has been made. I think by then you would've definetely earned your new AC, considering all the effort you've made.

[Sabarok]

However, why would all your equipment have to be removed?.

 

Some ACs have different armour requirements, in addition to weapon requirements. Assassin going to Sorceror would be unable to wear their current set of armour. It would be simplest if all equipment was removed, then the class changed, and any equipment that can still be equipped can now be re-equipped. AO has a similar process for to reset skill points (in that game, the only differences between the classes are the skill point costs & spells), though they never implemented a class change even though it would be far simpler to do in AO than it would in SWTOR.