Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[Esaru]

I'm done with this game if they ever decide to allow AC respec on a whim. I'm fine with changing specs within an AC, though.

 

It's going to effectively halve the unique classes in the game. Why does no one care about this? All you pro-AC respec people seem to ignore this simple but MASSIVE consequence. Why would you want to limit diversity and water down this game even more? A total of FOUR classes, really?

 

no no no no no no no.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Esaru

[Kourage]

I'm done with this game if they ever decide to allow AC respec on a whim. I'm fine with changing specs within an AC, though.

 

It's going to effectively halve the unique classes in the game. Why does no one care about this? All you pro-AC respec people seem to ignore this simple but MASSIVE consequence. Why would you want to limit diversity and water down this game even more? A total of FOUR classes, really?

 

no no no no no no no.

 

Oh lawd you wanta quit because someone else changes their mind. They could just roll another toon it'd be no different to you.

 

Apparently you didn't pay any attention to what the devs said. They were going to allow you to change it the 1st time, pretty cheap. But after that it was going to get progressively more expensive. Not like resetting your skills, but a severe fee. A fee high enough that people would not switch just because they were curious.

 

 

First, the economy is going to have to establish itself so we can come to terms with what a severe, but doable fee might be. I think if you're level 50, the fee should be at least 5 million credits. There should be a 1 month cooldown to change it again and the fee should double.

[Buur]

You were also promised that YOUR CHARACTER CHOICES will have an impact and cannot be undone. Funny you seem to forget that.

 

That is funny considering I can hit Escape to get out of any character conversation choice I made that didn't turn out the way I want.

[jontyld]

Absolutely not. It would not be ok to let someone level up as a jug and switch to marauder, or any other case where one class levels/solos worse than its AC partner. It takes 2-3 hours to level to 10, they give you ample time to pick which class you want to be. If you change your mind start over.

[LeonBraun]

No changing AC's please. This has been discussed to death. No.

 

/thread

[Kourage]

No changing AC's please. This has been discussed to death. No.

 

/thread

 

Yes to changing AC's please. This has been discussed to death. Yes.

 

/thread

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See what I did thar?

 

 

Come on people. Would it really kill your game play if someone could pay 5 or 10 million credits to change AC once a month? How about if the price doubled each time? How about if it were a 1 time only deal?

 

You know it's going to happen eventually, somehow, some way.

Search your feelings.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Kourage

[Knockerz]

And the people who are at level 30? Do you think they want to have to go through the same exact story and do the same exact thing to change their spec (it's not a class, ask Bioware)?

 

Yes I do. I rerolled on another server when my main was level 30 cause it was on a pve server and I decided to play on pvp instead. That isn't any more different than some who dislikes his advance class. You level again. It's unlikely BW will their policy about changing advance classes. Any one can see that advance classes play very different from one another. An imp sniper can't stealth like an operative. That should tell you that the advance classes are more like separate classes than different specs. You don't see a spec in wow's rogues that has stealth and other that don't. You simply want to get advance classes changed cause you are being lazy and don't want to level again.

 

In mmorpg when you first start out you will make a few dramatic class changes or rerolls.

 

Next people will say they want to change to a imp bounty hunter cause their republic trooper is a mirror classes and they don't believe they should have to level again. Completely absurd like the op suggesting.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Knockerz

[Poisonsenvy]

Sad thing BW is just hurting the game buy not letting people either respect for free or allowing a second AC spec. If we had at least 2 specs grouping would be way easier.

[Knockerz]

Yes to changing AC's please. This has been discussed to death. Yes.

 

/thread

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See what I did thar?

 

 

Come on people. Would it really kill your game play if someone could pay 5 or 10 million credits to change AC once a month? How about if the price doubled each time? How about if it were a 1 time only deal?

 

You know it's going to happen eventually, somehow, some way.

Search your feelings.

 

 

I doubt it will happen. Advance classes are much like different classes in wow. If BW does allow people to change their advance class, then a lot of people will cancel. I would also cancel like a lot of players who have stated they will cancel. Allowing people to change classes is unforgivable in eyes of the majority of mmorpg players. That's why Blizzard hasn't introduce a paid class service, which is why BW will not introduce one too.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Knockerz

[dadamowsky]

I doubt it will happen. Advance classes are much like different classes in wow. If BW does allow people to change their advance class, then a lot of people will cancel. I would also cancel like a lot of players who have stated they will cancel. Allowing people to change classes is unforgivable in eyes of the majority of mmorpg players. That's why Blizzard hasn't introduce a paid class service, which is why BW will not introduce one too.

 

And that's a reason I'd like to understand why. Why would you cancel it? Because your arguments are pretty empty so far - you'd do it because other'd do it. Wow, nice logic. So once again I pose a question - why not? How exactly would it hurt game (stop posting that AC are different for whatever sake - I know that! And that's why I'd like that feature - to save my time while trying different given option without repeating exactly same content)?

[Avrose]

Well to answer id have to say that with any kind of system theres gonna be those that openly abuse said system. Now most go the way of if its not there then it cant be abused but id say your punishing the ones that would use it as a way to correct some mistake or make it so they can keep what they have instead of just getting rid of it. Now with this one time or multi time respec that can happen but as said its gonna happen if possible anyways. Yea with smuggler and agent your gonna have snipers and gunslingers dpsing without the base heals they have had if they were stuck in the advance class they intend on using but your basically punishing the players that would use it for the right reasons to keep the ones that wouldn't having heals throughout instead of when they were done leveling or close.

 

I don't like being punished or kept from having something because someone else would abuse it. Like taking guns from hunters and ppl that have them for self defense cause others are using them to do harm. Not having something because there's someone that will abuse it isn't really a good choice to me. Your always gonna have those that will do work arounds or use something in a unintended way, that doesn't mean it shouldn't still be offered to those that use it properly

 

Yes there is, it is better to not have options then to have them and have people then ruin things for everyone else.

 

Also Advances classes are night and day play style to each other. What it boils down to is people don't want to put in the effort to level an advanced class.

 

I see no harm in forcing them too.

[Quinsec]

No. Give it up already.

[dadamowsky]

Yes there is, it is better to not have options then to have them and have people then ruin things for everyone else.

 

Also Advances classes are night and day play style to each other. What it boils down to is people don't want to put in the effort to level an advanced class.

 

I see no harm in forcing them too.

 

Erm... again (and again, and again and still waiting for the answer from no-noes and still none occured) - how would it hurt the game? Because I see one pretty serious reason why forcing harms me - I've got some RL obligations, and my day still counts only 24h. Because it's exactly same content for releveling same class with different spec. Because grind since there's no different way is BORING. Because I pay for play to be entertained not bored to death. And this whole problem - serious one - is possible to solve with such simple option, yet meeting so incomprehensible opposition.

 

So at least tell me at last - why not?

Edited January 15, 2012 by dadamowsky

[Cadiva]

No, because unlike other games Bioware has two tiers of specialization instead of one. This game gives you 4 classes per side, each with 2 subclasses to specialize in, each with 3 trees to further specialize in. It's like comparing apples to oranges. And debating the wording of what is an "advanced class" is silly and dumb. We all know it's a specialization of the primary, overall class.

 

No they don't, they have THREE.

 

Base Class (Story you follow), Advance Class (what you pick at level 10 determines armour, weapons, skills) Skill Trees (determines where you put your SPECIALISATION points).

[Avrose]

Erm... again (and again, and again and still waiting for the answer from no-noes and still none occured) - how would it hurt the game? Because I see one pretty serious reason why forcing harms me - I've got some RL obligations, and my day still counts only 24h. Because it's exactly same content for releveling same class with different spec. Because grind because there's no different way is BORING. Because I pay for play to be entertained not bored to death. And this whole problem - serious one - is possible to solve with such simple option, yet meeting so incomprehensible opposition.

 

So at least tell me at last - why not?

 

Well for the again and again and again I said it prior that no one has addressed let me copy paste it for you.

 

Because it is unfair and can and will result in abuse.

 

'Which of the two advanced classes has the best dps tree'

'This one'

'Cool, I'll level as this AC and this tree then when I get to max I'll respec to a tank/healer'

 

 

This will result in many players wishing to 'shortcut' the game to do so. people will level less variety of classes during 10-50. this will assure a shortage of tanks and healers for lower level content like flash-points, heroic quests and those practice raid world bosses.

 

That is why it should NEVER happen.

 

That's back on page 12 for anyone wanted to catch up.

[dadamowsky]

Well for the again and again and again I said it prior that no one has addressed let me copy paste it for you.

 

Because it is unfair and can and will result in abuse.

 

'Which of the two advanced classes has the best dps tree'

'This one'

'Cool, I'll level as this AC and this tree then when I get to max I'll respec to a tank/healer'

Erm... First of all, it is already happening - just go to AC subforum, torhead and all this community and build-oriented sites and read posts to know who got better dps. How respecing would create situation that already exists? Second - he would change AC... yup, loosing his whole best DPS... yup. And? Yes, he would get second AC with all pros and cons. What is so dreadful in it?

 

This will result in many players wishing to 'shortcut' the game to do so. people will level less variety of classes during 10-50. this will assure a shortage of tanks and healers for lower level content like flash-points, heroic quests and those practice raid world bosses.

Aha, so you are saying that people would automaticaly choose highest dps AC. Oh wait... they already know what is the best dps AC!

Edited January 15, 2012 by dadamowsky

[MajikMyst]

Sad thing BW is just hurting the game buy not letting people either respect for free or allowing a second AC spec. If we had at least 2 specs grouping would be way easier.

 

Actually BW is not hurting the game.. There is no need for dual speccing nor is there a need to change your class..

 

If you chose your AC at chacter creation, we wouldn't be having this chat.. People just feel they are entitled and lazy and don't actually want to play the game the way it was meant to be played.. They feel the rules do not apply to them..

 

Bioware gave us a 10 lvl preview before allowing us to choose our final class.. Because of that, people feel entitled to be ablde to change that on a whim.. Give me a break..

 

Dual speccing and AC switching is what will ruin this game.. People feeling they are entitled and lazy is what will ruin this game..

 

No to both AC switching and Dual speccing.. People need to learn to do without and live with what is already in the game..

[Isharel]

TL;DR

 

*KHM*

 

On a serious note, I'll make this short and simple. Listen to bloody NPC's explain what each class does, then read the flippin' description when choosing one.

 

As someone mentioned,

 

Classes = Stories

 

Advanced Classes = ACTUAL Classes

 

To bring that elf-and-orc game as an example, one does not simply change class from warrior to rogue. People need to understand this or they might aswell just stop playing the game. To once again, stress it..

 

Classes = Stories

 

Advanced Classes = ACTUAL classes.

 

Let me ellaborate on that if it wasn't clean enough. The standard classes have no talent trees. Because, they aren't classes, thy are story arcs. This game has, infact, 16 classes. The so called "Advanced" Classes are infact simple classes. They each have their own talent trees with their own set of abilities and main stats, to use to perform certain tasks in the game.

 

If you were to change from Jedi Guardian to Jedi Sentinel, you'd recieve a new set of skills and main stats. Hence, it'd be a class change. I hope this was simple and well worded for easier understanding.

[Avrose]

Erm... First of all, it is already happening - just go to AC subforum nad read posts to know who got better dps. Second - he would change AC... yup, loosing his whole best DPS... yup. And? Yes, he would get second AC with all pros and cons. What is so dreadful in it?

 

 

Aha, so you are saying that people would automaticaly choose highest dps AC. Oh wait... they already know what is the best dps AC!

 

okay you totally by passed the point so I'll brake it down for you step by step.

 

Opertive can heal, he may take the dps spec but he can heal. Leveling content isn't so hard that he can't heal it even in a dps spec.

 

However as Sniper let us argue for the sake of example it has the highest dps. Which as I understand it does but still bare with me. If people desiring to get to max level quick to catch up with friends knew they could respec at max level for a cost they would level the sniper.

 

This results in less healers in flash points ect are less likely to be done.

 

The same goes for the other classes.

 

Why would someone level a Jedi Guardian when they can level much easier and faster as a Sentinel?

 

Better?

Edited January 15, 2012 by Avrose

[Knockerz]

And that's a reason I'd like to understand why. Why would you cancel it? Because your arguments are pretty empty so far - you'd do it because other'd do it. Wow, nice logic. So once again I pose a question - why not? How exactly would it hurt game (stop posting that AC are different for whatever sake - I know that! And that's why I'd like that feature - to save my time while trying different given option without repeating exactly same content)?

 

You don't need a logical explanation. BW won't implemented ac change due to loss of revenue. It's that simple.

 

If you want a detail explanation go look at the wow forums and find the many threads about class changes or look at any other mmorpg. Threads about class changes are very long and you will find the cons and pro of for class changes.

 

Overall, class changes hurt the game in the long run more, than it helps. First, if you want to change class you have to level again, which is a time sink. If you raided, you need to gear that character and do reputation grind again. If you pvp you need to do both rep and gear grind. Basically, the whole point of not allowing classes changes is so that you will waste more time leveling, and rep grinding at a minimum. It adds a very costly price for switching classes at end game.

 

At moment, classes changes may not seem like a lot, but in few months or years the effect of classes changes will be significant. Classes changes are detrimental for any company as changing classes prolongs the replay value of the mmorpg.

 

Again, I'm use wow. I have characters that are years old and if I wanted to change to a new class for a new expansion or a class I never played using a class change service I would avoid the leveling, rep grind, and gear grind. A company will lose more money due to people progressing through the game more quickly due to the loss of time sink of leveling and gearing process when you change classes. That is why classes changes will never be allowed in wow or in this game too. It too efficient at allowing you to change classes and takes away, from the company's perspective, the time sink required to change a class. The losses due to people quitting over not being able to change their class is insignificant relative to the loss of the time sink due to leveling and gearing process, which prolongs the life of the mmorpg.

 

That's one reason why wow is so successful. Having to redo the whole leveling, gearing, and rep grind is a big time sink and when you factor in most people will go through several different characters through the life of an expansion it allows Blizzard to prolong the life of their product and grants more time to develop content patches in between expansions.

 

A player being forced to re-level, re-gear, re-rep, and re-earn codex is intentionally design that way by BW. All mmorpg are design to force a player to go through the leveling and gearing process from scratch when changing a classes. Thus, adding a service that saves times on the part of the player is counter productive from the perspective of the company who made the mmorpg. It allows players to avoid the huge time sink of leveling and gearing. If the player wants the same achievements/codex and titles, then it saves even more time. The purpose of not introducing a service that allows you change a class is so that you won't save time by not having to re-level, re-gear, re-rep, and re-earn codex. That's the point of not introducing a class change service. It also adds a penalty for players who want to change a classes. If you don't like this fact, then mmorpg aren't for you cause that is the norm in mmorpg games.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Knockerz

[Darthconnor]

You can't respec your warrior to a mage or a rogue in WoW either, which is roughly the same thing.

 

One reason the system is the way it is now is to have four story-lines in stead of eight I suppose. It's also a risky design decision since the silver platter crew will immediately jump on the respec-issue as a failing that should be in the game. Had the choice been at level one in stead of level ten, but with the same story line, I don't think as many people would be complaining.

 

What we are getting now is a service to try out our class for a bit before we commit to a certain AC. Working as intended, and I really hope they don't change that.

 

Changing from a warrior to a mage in wow is nothing like switching from guardian to sentinel. Wow gives this option and allows dual spec. Paladins can level as dps and switch to a healer or tank. Warriors can go dps and switch to a tank, priest go dps and switch to a healer. Add to this they all can actual keep both these builds by paying for dual spec.

[Breeti]

No matter which you choose your class remains the same. Example, if you are a jedi night and you choose to be a guardian, you are still considered a Jedi Knight and still gain skills within that class. You still follow the Jedi Knight story line, not the Guardian.

 

Advanced Class is more like a skin to make the game seem like it has more classes and choices. Realistically, the Class determines the story not the Advanced Class, it should be something that is changeable, if just for play value and customer value.

[Keihryon]

Lucky you. Try the same trick with smuggler, when both specs are dps oriented, and key skills comes in the 30/40 lvl.

 

 

Umm, the Scoundrel and Operative, the other two classes in the Smuggler and Imperial Agent stories, are actually healer types. I have a 21 scoundrel and enjoy him a great deal (but I still prefer force wielders so I haven't leveled him up as much as i'd like)

 

i also plan to give the Sniper a try, the other IA class.

[Keihryon]

Changing from a warrior to a mage in wow is nothing like switching from guardian to sentinel..

 

But changing from an Assassin to a Sorcerer IS like changing from a warrior to a mage.

 

Actually, it's like changing from a warrior/rogue to a mage/priest.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Keihryon

[Noth]

No matter which you choose your class remains the same. Example, if you are a jedi night and you choose to be a guardian, you are still considered a Jedi Knight and still gain skills within that class. You still follow the Jedi Knight story line, not the Guardian.

 

Advanced Class is more like a skin to make the game seem like it has more classes and choices. Realistically, the Class determines the story not the Advanced Class, it should be something that is changeable, if just for play value and customer value.

 

So the game still refers to you as a Jedi Knight outside of story? No it does not, it refers to you as your advanced class. Just look in the social, who and guild pages in game. Once you get your AC they say your Ac under the class tab and no longer mention the base classes.