TheMove Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Whats one thing SWGs and WoW had in common? World PVP. Something Swtor forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelColt Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 You do know that SWG failed and failed hard, right? You do know WHY SWG failed, and failed hard, right? It didn't start to sink until the CU, and it didn't go under until the NGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 SWGs is the most underrated game of all time. Prob the best game ever made ran y the worst people to ever run a game. That being said I loved SWGs from day one till the end. I also Loved Warcraft from day one till the third expansion. I am not enjoying swtor. I will not be renewing ever. Be nice if you added posting to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadiva Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 For those who played SWG back in the day. Remember the immersion you felt in the game and with other players? Why did SWTOR go in the opposite direction and remove every fun, sandboxy, interactive feature that so many people loved in SWG? In SWG we had: -Player built housing and stores -Custom NPC merchants players could place anywhere -Pet taming, you could wander around seeking out fab pets and attempt to train them -Resource surveying in maps to find areas to erect harvesting equipment -In cantinas you actually interacted with other players through dancing -Item decay that added a purpose to player crafted equipment Etc, Etc... Because it's not the same game? Fairly elementary I'd have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudanie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you prefer sandbox mmos, why did you buy a themepark mmo in the first place? Because most of my guild were looking for a new MMO to play together. I, like many others, took a chance on ToR hoping it to have some redeaming value to a player like me. There are no good options for a sandbox player out there unfortunately. My only fault with ToR that causes me to speak out, is that they are a WoW clone. I've never created a thread on these forums because I understand that the negativity can bring people down who are enjoying the game, but for a AAA developer like BW to be so lazy and safe with the development of this MMO is not a good thing for the future of MMOs. WoW and ToR's success delays and hinders any kind of development for a game like UO, EQ, SWG, etc. It's very disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsToof Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) SWG had nothing to go on, it was a new ip from a company that didnt have the reputation and financial backing that Bioware had. Old Republic is already an established franchise from an established company in terms of RPGs, right there is your million subscribers in name recognition alone. SWG didnt have that, but it did well with what it had, and the profession leveling system I still find better than traditiinal numbered levels, it allowed for customization based on what YOU wanted to do at any given time and allowed for more options. I had to become a chef if I wanted a chance at a Jedi slot, permadeath and blue glowie, dedicated crafting and gathering professions, teras kasi, creature trainers, HAm, entertainer profession for buffs, bounies on other players, non rails space combat, player houses w/ various decorative possibilites. It was a living breathing world for its time. Nowadays we get the slimmed down versions for "streamlining" sake EDIT: if SWG were re released today in its pre cu state, id leave this game and re purchase and re subscribe to SWG without a thought, many others would share a similar view Edited January 14, 2012 by ItsToof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch_TwentyTwo Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Yeah and swg was a huge success, wasn´t it?Well it was a mild succes at the start, but neither SOE nor Lucasarts had the first clue on how to manage it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamzombie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 -Player built housing and stores Agreed, this was really nice, and a great touch. -Custom NPC merchants players could place anywhere Pretty much included in your first point. -Pet taming, you could wander around seeking out fab pets and attempt to train them I was a master Creature Handler/BioEngineer until they took BE out of the game. F*** SOE. Taming standard pets was boring. Having a tiny wrix kitten w/ Rancor DNA (RIP Pookie), that was awesome. -Resource surveying in maps to find areas to erect harvesting equipment Agreed, this was much more preferable to harvesting manually. -In cantinas you actually interacted with other players through dancing "In cantinas you actually interacted w/ other players through afk dance/music macros" FIXED -Item decay that added a purpose to player crafted equipment Item decay was garbage, imo. I do not want to see this again. I loved SWG when it launched, I loved jump to light speed. I hated the NGE, and shortly after is when I quit SWG. In the end, SWG was what is was. This is not SWG II. This is not an expansion pack to SWG. This is a new game, by a new developer with a different idea of what they wanted to make. It has things SWG didn't, and it's missing a few things SWG had. Some of them might be added eventually, others never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QQRagequitQQ Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 I agree. There seems to be a small but dedicated following of fanbois on this thread who prefer a designer label and franchise over player immersion and content. SWG had nothing to go on, it was a new ip from a company that didnt have the reputation and financial backing that Bioware had. Old Republic is already an established franchise from an established company in terms of RPGs, right there is your million subscribers in name recognition alone. SWG didnt have that, but it did well with what it had, and the profession leveling system I still find better than traditiinal numbered levels, it allowed for customization based on what YOU wanted to do at any given time and allowed for more options. I had to become a chef if I wanted a chance at a Jedi slot, permadeath and blue glowie, dedicated crafting and gathering professions, teras kasi, creature trainers, HAm, entertainer profession for buffs, bounies on other players, non rails space combat, player houses w/ various decorative possibilites. It was a living breathing world for its time. Nowadays we get the slimmed down versions for "streamlining" sake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadiva Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Umm, I never said SWG was my first mmo. I am in my late 30s and have played mmos for well over 10 years. I know what makes an mmo good. I have played many of the classic old school mmos in hardcore no-life mode back in the day, before I had a business and a life, so I am not seeing anything through rose colored glasses. Compared to all other mmos I have played, this game has the least community immersion, and personally I consider it a single player game on a multiplayer server. Ask anyone here who has played UO, EQ or DAOC. I played all of those (although UO for about a month only) EQ for more than a year, DAoC I have four accounts (3 EU and 1 US) which are still active, and yet I have no problem with SW:tOR. I also close beta tested and played SW:G and enjoyed that also until I realised that there was no direction to it at all and that if you had a big bunch of mates playing (which I did for a while) then it was okay but if you were on your own, then it was hellish. They also claimed that you could level in any way you wished but that, ultimately, proved false because without at least one level in Bounty Hunter (from memory, whichever one it was that gave you a gun skill) you got slaughtered every time you set foot outside a town. SW:G was a decent game but it wasn't perfect by a long stretch and it was utterly ruined by all those whinging about wanting to role a Jedi and by Sony seeing WoW sub figures and wanting to get in on that action. The CU and NGE ruined it completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 it was, until they started to cr*p on the combat system. The combat system was borked from launch. And there was a reason they kept tweaking and changing things, they were trying to stop the bleeding of subscriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enochx Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Why don't they have flower powerups like in super mario? You know the whole Mario franchise went south the day they added Wario to the mix. Sadly this game takes away all the things that we loved about Mario and Luigi. When Wario hit the scene it was just like when Yoshi hit the scene. That being said I love Super Mario Brothers from day 1 until the end. I will not be renewing my subscription to SWTOR because of Wario and Yoshi. Wait....what are we talking about? I laughed when I read the quote by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 You do know WHY SWG failed, and failed hard, right? It didn't start to sink until the CU, and it didn't go under until the NGE. It was dying prior to both. There was a reason they were trying to "fix" the game, people were bailing left and right. The CU an NGE didn't cause people to leave the game, people leaving the game caused the CU and NGE. They just caused those who stayed to now want to leave. Rose-colored glasses and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Because most of my guild were looking for a new MMO to play together. I, like many others, took a chance on ToR hoping it to have some redeaming value to a player like me. There are no good options for a sandbox player out there unfortunately. Uh, Eve: Online is a terrific sandbox game, and is still doing fairly well. And have you actually looked at any mmos beyond the big budget ones like WoW and TOR that have ads all over the place? Do you check out http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/sandbox-mmo/ at all? My only fault with ToR that causes me to speak out, is that they are a WoW clone. I've never created a thread on these forums because I understand that the negativity can bring people down who are enjoying the game, but for a AAA developer like BW to be so lazy and safe with the development of this MMO is not a good thing for the future of MMOs. WoW and ToR's success delays and hinders any kind of development for a game like UO, EQ, SWG, etc. It's very disappointing. Sorry, but many people actually like WoW's style of gameplay, myself being one of them. For those that don't like mmos like WoW, would it kill them to do a little research on a game instead of buying $60 mmos on release out of blind hope? Even before the game's release, any research would've told you the game was going to be a lot like WoW. Hell, I told people on the WoW forums over and over that I expected TOR to be WoW + Knights of the Old Republic. I mean really, it's a AAA mmo with a massive budget, of course they're going to play it safe. If you want to try out games that are innovative or niche, that's what the Indie scene is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Why did SWTOR go in the opposite direction and remove every fun, sandboxy, interactive feature that so many people loved in SWG? Because Lucasarts was not going to let a company make SWG ... again. SWG was already made. It didn't work out. The next game wasn't going to be a repeat of what already existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gotta agree somewhat with the OP. SWTOR needs more depth to it in a variety of areas. Perhaps it will get that in time, then again, perhaps not. I'd love to hear the devs thoughts on adding depth to SWTOR (meaning not just throwing more flashpoints and operations at it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you try hard Enough i'M sUre you can find a game like SWG. Minecraft. Or some heavily modded Sims or Second Life stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeptusTierce Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Yeah and swg was a huge success, wasn´t it? It actually was, until they screwed it up with the so-called 'combat upgrade' because they thought a game where you had to use your brain, as opposed to looking at the 'level' of something, was too hard for all the MMO players who must have an average IQ of 90 if SOE are to be believed, mustn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdienekes Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Sadly, it seems the intention was to create a game that it's only relationship to SWG is in the name. Never mind, there other games that are picking up on some favourite SWG features. OOh, which ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Because Lucasarts was not going to let a company make SWG ... again. SWG was already made. It didn't work out. The next game wasn't going to be a repeat of what already existed. I'd love to know what the source of your info is here. The devs have said that Lucasarts doesn't get that involved in SWTOR's development. Yes, they want to be kept abreast of "lore" stuff, but that's pretty much it as far as I can see. In actuality the reason why SWTOR is like it is, is because of people much "closer to home". That is, the founders of Bioware are great fans of the "WoW" formula. THEY are the ones who had the most power in steered the development of this game. Not Lucasarts. Here's what Dr Greg had to say about WoW: “It is a touchstone,” Zeschuk said of WoW, according to GamesIndustry. “It has established standards, it’s established how you play an MMO. “Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that’s pretty dumb. Edited January 14, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandrax Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 For those who played SWG back in the day. Remember the immersion you felt in the game and with other players? Why did SWTOR go in the opposite direction and remove every fun, sandboxy, interactive feature that so many people loved in SWG? In SWG we had: -Player built housing and stores -Custom NPC merchants players could place anywhere -Pet taming, you could wander around seeking out fab pets and attempt to train them -Resource surveying in maps to find areas to erect harvesting equipment -In cantinas you actually interacted with other players through dancing -Item decay that added a purpose to player crafted equipment Etc, Etc... There is a reason that game is no longer active. You might have preferred SWG, but I would prefer they didn't turn this into SWG 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 You do know WHY SWG failed, and failed hard, right? It didn't start to sink until the CU, and it didn't go under until the NGE. Why would they implement those things if the game was sooooo successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelColt Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 It was dying prior to both. There was a reason they were trying to "fix" the game, people were bailing left and right. The CU an NGE didn't cause people to leave the game, people leaving the game caused the CU and NGE. They just caused those who stayed to now want to leave. Rose-colored glasses and all. You can keep saying rose-colored glasses all you want, doesn't make you any less wrong. SWG was going strong up until they announced the CU. THAT Is when they started bleeding subs. With the release of CU they bled some more, with the anouncement of NGE they bled even more, and with the release of NGE they died. The sole reason SWG failed is because SoE and LA weren't content with the amount of subs they had, they wanted more, they wanted WoWs numbers. That's all there is to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelColt Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Why would they implement those things if the game was sooooo successful? Because, as we've said and as you've ignored, they weren't content. SWG wasn't some super game making trillions of dollars. It held steady and made a profit, but they wanted more. That's why they tried to change it into WoW, to appeal to that crowd, which in turn drove the fans away. It's hardly an unknown thing, companies altering a product because they're not satisfied with their profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Why would they implement those things if the game was sooooo successful? When you consider the features that SWTOR has (and WoW has) that were taken from games that were not as successful, then you begin to see that such logic doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The point I'm making is that just because a product may not have been as successful as others, doesn't mean that individual features of that product aren't worth considering. Edited January 14, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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