Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[kijthae]

Im not negative on advance class respec but it must have huge cost so people wont do it everyday.

[Cadiva]

I don't know why people keep using this argument, it's an appeal to tradition fallacy.

 

This isn't other games, this is SW:TOR. Following your bizarre logic someone might say "they should never have voiced all the quests because no other game has done it, name one".

 

Let's stop talking about other games. Of course this would be something other games don't do, it would be a new feature, your only task is to explain what it would take away from the game that would damage it.

 

It's nowhere near as simple as saying it's an appeal to tradition. It's the basic fundamental of what makes an MMO. You create a character, you choose a class, you level that class, if you don't like it or want to try something else, you level a different one, you don't ask for the one you've just leveled to be changed into it.

[Dunzo]

I don't need to go there, it says

 

So, if we're getting down to Semantics, BioWare have described within the professional Classes, a variety of different Archetypes.

 

So you're taking a quote, not only out of context and that is open to interpretation, over the page on the website that is titled CLASSES? Ooooook, bye.

[Pyrolight]

 

Can the Jugg duel wield? Is the Marauder able to use Shields? No, therefore they are NOT the same. They do not function like WoW's talent trees. The SKILL TREES within each AC function like WoW's skill trees in exactly the same way.

 

Ya that is like saying fury and prot used different weapons. Fine I will give it to you one dual wields one is sword and board. No different then Fury and Prot.

 

Ok lets look at this another way.

 

The AC specifies your roles and the talent trees define their function. In WoW talent trees did both. All that the AC are doing is allowing Bioware to limit the types of roles you can play (DPS/Healer/Tank).

 

Regardless of what AC you chose its roles and what it allows you to do is no different from a WoW or Rift.

 

Again

Sith Warrior = Warrior

Sith Inquis = Druid

 

You simply due to AC cannot chose to dps, tank and heal with one character of one base class.

 

Either way class specializations are limiting when the effective gameplay styles of each are represented in talent trees/souls.

[PJEBarlow]

It's nowhere near as simple as saying it's an appeal to tradition. It's the basic fundamental of what makes an MMO. You create a character, you choose a class, you level that class, if you don't like it or want to try something else, you level a different one, you don't ask for the one you've just leveled to be changed into it.

 

The advanced class only starts at level 10*, so you're still to explain what hugely important aspect of the game would be lost if I simply skipped grinding Korriban again with the exact same class and skills.

 

Not one of you has stepped up to this challenge yet, you keep making appeal to tradition fallacies by saying "that's how it is in other MMOs and we're not changing it now".

 

*But clearly the limit should be higher than ten if there's a limit imposed on how long you can take to decide to respec, as you should be able to experience that AC first. I don't think 14 or 16 is too much to ask.

Edited January 14, 2012 by PJEBarlow

[Cadiva]

You are right, but you keep using WoW as a comparison. Why can't we use the game that it more directly imitates "in terms of class specialization"?

 

In DAoC; Armsmen, Paladins, and Mercenaries all get the same basic skills, Slash, Crush, Pierce.

 

Paladin - specialized ability - Chants

Armsman - specialized ability - Polearm

Mercenary - specialized ability - Dual Wield

 

Armsmen and Paladins, also get shield spec, and 2-hand weapon spec

 

You can't tell me that they are still "just" their base class and should be able to respec between them at any point.

 

Again, please stop using wow as a basis for comparison, as DAoC is far more relevant.

 

Yeah, couple of us have tried this before but they don't seem to get the point that the AC in this is the same as a Class in any other MMO.

 

BioWare's called it a class, an archetype and a specialisation so they obviously can't make their minds up either /sarcasm

[Freyar]

It's nowhere near as simple as saying it's an appeal to tradition. It's the basic fundamental of what makes an MMO. You create a character, you choose a class, you level that class, if you don't like it or want to try something else, you level a different one, you don't ask for the one you've just leveled to be changed into it.

 

Should players in Mass Effect be able to respec mid-way?

[naturai]

dumb idea troll elswhere

[uruz]

Another respect thread - whodda thunk?!

 

AC respect - no. Go level up another Advanced class if you want to see what it's all about.

 

Dual spec within your Advanced class - sure why not.

[Cadiva]

So you're taking a quote, not only out of context and that is open to interpretation, over the page on the website that is titled CLASSES? Ooooook, bye.

 

Urm no that's THE class page ON the Holonet but nice try.

[naturai]

too hard to get level 10 pls nerf bioware

[PJEBarlow]

too hard to get level 10 pls nerf bioware

 

Tedious ! = hard.

[naturai]

Tedious ! = hard.

 

was trolling like but what is it 2-3 hours?

[PJEBarlow]

was trolling like but what is it 2-3 hours?

 

You should really try reading the thread before responding because it's already been said many times: -

 

Why spend the 2-3 hours? What hugely important aspect of the game is removed by me not grinding Korriban and Dromund Kaas again like a spacebar-mashing zombie?

 

Nobody has answered yet.

 

If you grind you've done the exact same quests to get up to choosing your AC, you now have new skills. If there was a respec, boom you would have new skills. It's the exact same net result and nothing of value is actually lost, in fact you've saved a couple of hours, which sounds like a net benefit to me at no detriment to the game or anybody else who is playing it.

Edited January 14, 2012 by PJEBarlow

[Cadiva]

The AC specifies your roles and the talent trees define their function. In WoW talent trees did both. All that the AC are doing is allowing Bioware to limit the types of roles you can play (DPS/Healer/Tank).

 

Regardless of what AC you chose its roles and what it allows you to do is no different from a WoW or Rift.

 

Again

Sith Warrior = Warrior

Sith Inquis = Druid

 

You simply due to AC cannot chose to dps, tank and heal with one character of one base class.

 

Either way class specializations are limiting when the effective gameplay styles of each are represented in talent trees/souls.

 

No it isn't. This game mirrors DAoC not WoW. The way it utilises classes, advanced classes and skill trees is exactly the same.

Also your comparison between a Sith Warrior and a Sith Inquisitor makes no sense, they are different base classes. I am talking about the difference between a Sith Warrior who chooses Juggernaut as their AC and someone who chooses Marauder, they are utterly different.

[Cadiva]

Should players in Mass Effect be able to respec mid-way?

 

No idea, I've never played Mass Effect and isn't that an single player RPG?

[Keihryon]

You should really try reading the thread before responding because it's already been said many times: -

 

Why spend the 2-3 hours? What hugely important aspect of the game is removed by me not grinding Korriban and Dromund Kaas again like a spacebar-mashing zombie?

 

Nobody has answered yet.

 

No-one seemed to have a problem running the same areas In Midgard, Albion, or...dang what was the third realm? If they decided to try a different class.

 

I will stick with using DAoC as the analogy because it's class system is more like TOR's than WoW's class system.

If you only ever played wow...well, the imperfection is yours

[naturai]

You should really try reading the thread before responding because it's already been said many times: -

 

Why spend the 2-3 hours? What hugely important aspect of the game is removed by me not grinding Korriban and Dromund Kaas again like a spacebar-mashing zombie?

 

Nobody has answered yet.

 

If you grind you've done the exact same quests to get up to choosing your AC, you now have new skills. If there was a respec, boom you would have new skills. It's the exact same net result and nothing of value is actually lost, in fact you've saved a couple of hours, which sounds like a net benefit to me at no detriment to the game or anybody else who is playing it.

 

a trial period of something like 4 levels but being able to at any time is just stupid *** game company does gay **** like that?

[Pyrolight]

No it isn't. This game mirrors DAoC not WoW. The way it utilises classes, advanced classes and skill trees is exactly the same.

Also your comparison between a Sith Warrior and a Sith Inquisitor makes no sense, they are different base classes. I am talking about the difference between a Sith Warrior who chooses Juggernaut as their AC and someone who chooses Marauder, they are utterly different.

 

I am saying

 

Sith jugg = Arms/Prot in form and function

Sith Mara = Fury in form and function.

 

Each AC defines a set number of roles.

 

They oddly seem to mimic WoW talent trees in that regard.

 

The inquisitor is just a druid in form and function.

 

If the story was different they sure AC would mean something, but they don't.

 

AC are a best a throw back to older gaming while in effective gameplay options a copy of WoW at worst regression.

 

I don't need to go there, it says

 

So, if we're getting down to Semantics, BioWare have described within the professional Classes, a variety of different Archetypes.

 

Ya the 4 base classes per side which they list below it.

 

I must be missing something here...

Edited January 14, 2012 by Pyrolight

[Cadiva]

The advanced class only starts at level 10*, so you're still to explain what hugely important aspect of the game would be lost if I simply skipped grinding Korriban again with the exact same class and skills.

 

Not one of you has stepped up to this challenge yet, you keep making appeal to tradition fallacies by saying "that's how it is in other MMOs and we're not changing it now".

 

*But clearly the limit should be higher than ten if there's a limit imposed on how long you can take to decide to respec, as you should be able to experience that AC first. I don't think 14 or 16 is too much to ask.

 

Because you made a choice. If this occurred at level one this discussion wouldn't even be happening. People would simply roll the other class/archetype/AC and get on with it. It was level five in DAoC, level 10 in EQ, in SW:tOR it's level 10. You didn't like what you picked, you went back and rerolled it and ran the beginning levels again, it took a couple of hours.

[Freyar]

No idea, I've never played Mass Effect and isn't that an single player RPG?

 

Sure, a singleplayer RPG. But if Mass Effect has no ability (discounting re-building the character between each game) to reset their class for a singleplayer game, why should a multiplayer game that has more impact on other players allow for changing the class? At that point you have characters that can just do whatever they hell they want. Rather than having characters that are specialized in what they do, it becomes a trivial thing.

[PJEBarlow]

No-one seemed to have a problem running the same areas In Midgard, Albion, or...dang what was the third realm? If they decided to try a different class.

 

I will stick with using DAoC as the analogy because it's class system is more like TOR's than WoW's class system.

If you only ever played wow...well, the imperfection is yours

 

I've played many, many MMORPGs but not DAoC. I get the gist of it though.

 

However we're not talking about [other game here], we're talking about SW:TOR. The proper way to debate is if people against the motion explain what it would take away from the game, so I'm still waiting for someone to do so.

 

Bringing up other MMORPGs is simply an appeal to tradition fallacy, and you can use that bizarre logic to say things like "they shouldn't have put voice acting in the game, other MMOs don't use it".

 

Because you made a choice. If this occurred at level one this discussion wouldn't even be happening. People would simply roll the other class/archetype/AC and get on with it. It was level five in DAoC, level 10 in EQ, in SW:tOR it's level 10. You didn't like what you picked, you went back and rerolled it and ran the beginning levels again, it took a couple of hours.

 

Exactly, if you chose your AC at level 1 we would not be having this discussion.

 

But you choose it at level 10, and this has caused a number of players to ask why they can't change their AC after investing time in to the character, rather than simply grind away.

 

But you're still talking about [insert other game here] instead of explaining how it would be of detriment to the game if this feature were implemented. Those of us advocating it have even said we wouldn't care if there were limits on it, like only being able to do it up to level 14-16 and at a moderate cost.

 

This discussion could be immediately over if you could lay the smack down by explaining how it would be detrimental to the game.

Edited January 14, 2012 by PJEBarlow

[Keihryon]

Then stop comparing the classes in TOR, to classes in WoW. And I will stop using the actual relevant game to compare them too. Edited January 14, 2012 by Keihryon

[ExarchCathedra]

 

AC respect - no. Go level up another Advanced class if you want to see what it's all about.

 

Dual spec within your Advanced class - sure why not.

 

What characteristic of Advanced Class makes this difference significant?

[Freyar]

I've played many, many MMORPGs but not DAoC. I get the gist of it though.

 

However we're not talking about [other game here], we're talking about SW:TOR. The proper way to debate is if people against the motion explain what it would take away from the game, so I'm still waiting for someone to do so.

 

Bringing up other MMORPGs is simply an appeal to tradition fallacy, and you can use that bizarre logic to say things like "they shouldn't have put voice acting in the game, other MMOs don't use it".

 

I want to know that the Jedi Knight that's being the typical Jedi Knight goody-two-shoes they are is a Jedi Knight and not some guy who decided to spontaneously change his class to something radically different "just 'cuz". A game without rules isn't a game, and a RPG without adhering to some sort of role isn't a RPG. You pick a role, you play that role. It's not an appeal to tradition, it's an appeal to the genre.