RagnarokJC Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Long ago, I posted a thread on suggestions to make the PT films more watchable. Here are those ideas: 1) Make Anakin older in the films, say his late teens in the first film, then his late twenties in the 2nd and 3rd films. It would be easier for the audience to relate to a mature protagonist than to a whiny teenage brat and an obnoxious child. 2) Have the Clone Wars in progress already by the time of the first film: having it start in the end of the 2nd film made the entire plot point feel like it was just shoehorned in by Lucas so that Obi-Wan's talk with Luke in Episode IV make sense. 3) Make the clones the antagonists: the clones are being created by an evil mastermind who is not in league with Palpatine. It forces the Republic to recruit for their armies and creates the kind of conditions that could lead to a change of government. 4) Palpatine as a leader of the military of the Republic: something like the Secretary of Defense. It would explain how he was able to take over the Republic (re: gaining control of the military), and show that he is a master strategist in both war and peace. In other words, it could make him into a more menacing figure. 5) Make Anakin a gifted young pilot in the service of the Republic. He starts off as an idealistic patriot, but becomes disillusioned by the way the Republic government is running the war against the clones. Palpatine can then gain his support by convincing him that order has to be *imposed* upon the galaxy. Anakin's fall is more tragic, because it happens for noble reasons that are twisted to evil. This would also make the idea of him already being a great pilot before meeting Obi-Wan more sensible to the audience as opposed to a half-toddler accidentally blowing a space station up. 6) Have just *one* apprentice to Palpatine who serves as the "active" enemy (the one who is actively fighting against the heroes while Palpatine plots away in his position in government). One of my biggest problems with the PT films was its idea of "villain of the film" in introducing us to Grievous, Dooku, and Maul with almost no development of their characters. The audience remained detached from them because we knew almost nothing about them. Having just one apprentice throughout the 3 films means that he/she could be fleshed out as a character. When we understand a villain's motivations, we care about the effect they will have on the protagonists. 7) The entire romance angle: get anyone other than Lucas to write the dialogue and scene outlines for the relationship between Padme and Anakin. I'd also make Padme more of a secondary character in the PT films outside of her romance. Making her such a strong character in the PT films made her death ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDTC Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think the comment about a down to earth character missing from the prequels is one of the most dead on things I've read. Thinking back it does seem to be something that's really missing from it. Lucas probably thought that was JarJar >< thats why people hate jar-jar so much. i forget where i read this, but i heard somebody say that jar-jar is the only fish out of water character in the entire movie, and also the only"regular guy. and he's an "exceptional individual", and people are forced to relate to him because there is nobody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midasear Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 There's a lot of Jar-Jar hate in this thread. How about this: Replace Jar-Jar right away in Episode I, with a 9-year old Carsen Organa, nephew of Bail Organa. He's a goofy, clumsy kid who is supposed to be betrothed into an arranged marriage eventually with Padme, Princess of Naboo. He thinks Padme is icky because shes a girl, but looks up to Anakin. Anakin and Carsen become like brothers, even though Carsen is hapless. In Episode II, Carsen is, in fact, in about to marry Padme, making her love for Anakin genuinely forbidden. Carsen thinks of himself as a charming ladies man, but comes across as Don Knotts. Still, he's likeable even though he carries on shamelessly with Twi'lek dancers and such, mostly because he is totally intimidated by Padme and feels out of her league. He loves her like a sister and Anakin like a brother, making the entire situation more tragic. Padme & Anakin consummate their love, once and only once, at the end of the episode. In Episode III, Carsen and Padme are married. Both know Anakin is the true father of her children, but they have keep that fact secret to spare everyone's feelings. Carsen continues to function as fish-out-of-water character until near the end of the film, when he heroically sacrifices his life to protect his wife's children and their secret, proving that even a hapless nebbish can rise up to be a hero if his heart is in the right place. For bonus soap opera points, make Carsen pefectly aware of Padme and Anakin's affair, and even run interference for both because he loves them so much. At the end of Episode 3, he fakes his death, adopts the alias "Owen" and takes Luke and his human mistress with him to Tatooine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLonelyTusken Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) remove Qui'gon all together? are you serious, Qui'gon is the best Jedi ever. Liam Neason's acting carried the Phantom Menace. Edited January 14, 2012 by TheLonelyTusken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWRapter Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 more muppets less CGI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guildrum Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I actually like that. It makes Padme being a queen have some reason to it, it removes a hated character, adds a seemingly likable character with a purpose and really does make Anakin and Padme's love forbidden by more than just law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninyania Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 10. Get the Emperor more invloved. A fascinating character from ROTJ lets see him get a bit more active. No need to hide his face behind a cloak for the first two parts, we all know who he is. Unless you read the novelization of Return of the Jedi, you didn't know that the Emperor's name was Palpatine. It was never mentioned in the movies. Nor was it ever mentioned ANYWHERE that Palpatine got his start as a Senator, nor that he was from Naboo. IMO, they shouldn't have mentioned Senator Palpatine by name, at all... just refer to him off-hand as "Senator" or "The Senator" or "the Nabooian Senator", to drag out the suspense and do the big-reveal during Revenge of the Sith (or at the end of AotC, at least). Calling him out as "Senator Palpatine" 15 minutes into the 1st film pretty much revealed (and wrecked) the entire 3-movie plot instantaneously for any Star Wars nerd (like me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninyania Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) 1 villian throughout all of it. I'm not talking about Darth Sideous but think of the OT we had Vader all the way through the trilogy. Darth Maul should have been there for all three instead of making him just a throw away villain who has 2 lines and then dies. Yes... get rid of General Grievous, downplay Count Dooku, and let Maul be the evil sidekick straight up until Anakin irradicates him (last thing he does before his "downfall" perhaps?) Edited January 14, 2012 by Ninyania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intarabus Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 1 villian throughout all of it. I'm not talking about Darth Sideous but think of the OT we had Vader all the way through the trilogy. Villain side was cool in the prequels. Plus to the main enemies like Sidious, Jango, Dooku and so on, they had a lot of strange separatists. The hero side bothers more, with Jar Jar, Padme, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intarabus Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Best thing to do to me: skip totally episode I, main story works without it. Make Episode II longer, with an ambiguos Jango Fett (according to the comics, he seems to be a better guy than his son, add another big jedi battle (victorious; I can' t get enough of 200 Jedi fighting hordes of droids), and follow what happens in the lifespan of one chosen Clone Trooper at the training and then in the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninyania Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) I think the thing that really bothers me the most is the way they handled the aftermath of the "final fight" on Mustafar. Obi-wan claims that Anakin was like a brother to him, his best friend, that he was to be the "chosen one", yada, yada, practically professes an epic amount of man-crush for the guy... then leaves him to burn to death. At the very least, Obi-wan, if he truly cared a shred for Anakin, would have put him out of his misery right then and there. But no, he left him - not left for dead, but left to die an insanely excruciating & painful death, on the shores of a river of molten lava. He turned his back on his best friend and let him burn. How f'n heartless and cruel is that... That had to be worth at least 2500 darkside points right there. "Only a Sith deals in such absolutes" right? For Obi-wan to believe that his once-friend, once-brother was so OBSOLUTELY far beyond any redemption at all as to be afforded a merciful death calls into question Obi-wan's piety, IMO. It just really bothered me; still does... for some reason. Edited January 14, 2012 by Ninyania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathisthehunter Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Episode 1: Introduce Anakin and Obi. Show some Jedi training scenes, some action scenes with Anakin showing off his prowess. At the end have Anakin meet Padme, briefly. Episode 2: Brief, short scenes of Padme and Anakin establishing the union, but not focusing on it. Lengthy Clone Wars scenes, reminiscent of the animated series, jedi fights, space battles, etc... End movie showing Anakins seduction to the Dark Side almost complete. Episode 3: Vader being Vader. Hunting Jedi, bashing rebels. Vader in all his glory. thats it right there. this fellow hit the nail on the head. the only way you can honestly have it go better for you is to just read the book. as i get older i watch the movies less and read the books more. i dont understand why while growing up vader was this absolute ****** badguy that you didnt wanna cross, just so when they start pumping out more movies they can show you his fruity little crybaby soft side. and then he takes out his woman with his ring hand anyway? whats the point. Edited January 14, 2012 by Deathisthehunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Morgul Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 more or less agree with the OP...just the rule of two is quiet ok and makes sense to me in the movie. The Prequel should´ve startet with Attack of the clones and should´ve had a Episode III with a kick *** darth vader. In the prequels, besides the chosen one and mediclorian + kid **** issue, one thing really bugs me... The hole timeline has been messed up...in Episode III Obiwan is in his mid 30´s and 20 years later he is 80 year old guy who can barely lift a lightsaber...though he is a healthy living, regular training guy...I mean what happend??? Did he crash down on Tatoine and got addicted to spice...Episode 3 1/2...the crystal meth menace??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeviltoasterx Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Unless you read the novelization of Return of the Jedi, you didn't know that the Emperor's name was Palpatine. It was never mentioned in the movies. Nor was it ever mentioned ANYWHERE that Palpatine got his start as a Senator, nor that he was from Naboo. Ok hold on...when was the name Palpatine actually first used?? I'm confused now because, as a 9 year old kid when I saw Ep I in theatres, I already knew Palpatine would become evil just by hearing his name. I knew Palpatine was the Emperor from the OT, which I loved and watched way before Ep 1 came out. And as a kid I definitely never read any of the books is his name really never mentioned in the OT?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninyania Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Ok hold on...when was the name Palpatine actually first used?? I'm confused now because, as a 9 year old kid when I saw Ep I in theatres, I already knew Palpatine would become evil just by hearing his name. I knew Palpatine was the Emperor from the OT, which I loved and watched way before Ep 1 came out. And as a kid I definitely never read any of the books is his name really never mentioned in the OT?? His name was *NEVER* mentioned in the original trilogy movies. Only in the books. And in the books, Palpatine was (initially) typecast as a weakling being manipulated by his advisors - like Chancellor Vallorum - not the evil Sith Lord we all know and love. Edited January 14, 2012 by Ninyania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorkTrooper Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Calling him out as "Senator Palpatine" 15 minutes into the 1st film pretty much revealed (and wrecked) the entire 3-movie plot instantaneously for any Star Wars nerd (like me). Recognizing the actor/voice pretty much did that for me. Unavoidable, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanC Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 My point was we have had Star Wars, a kind of semi Adult/Kids movie mashup that really worked then the Prequels came along and made a full blown Kids movie, whilst the huge fanbase that the movies had have AGED. So why not age the movie from semi Adult/Kids movie to outright ADULT movie rather than go backwards. I do agree with most of your points, but I disagree on how your trying to make that the OT wasn't a kid movie to begin with due to you probably being 30 plus now. It had a PG rating. If you would say if it had more of a mature childish feel then yes I agree with you. Hell, I remember watching I love the 70's or whatever it was called on VH1, and most of the theater was filled with kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourn Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I sat down and watched The Phantom Edit the other day, because I had previously re-watched the original trilogy. Even after the edit, I just couldn't stomach the movie. Why do R2-D2 and C-3P0 have to be in this movie? Why does Jar-Jar accompany the group everywhere? There were too many things that didn't make sense (trade federation blockading Naboo just 'cause, Queen Amidala's ship just flying past the blockade and conveniently losing the hyperdrive, Tatooine, of all planets, being the one they land on). I failed to see what was so bad with Young Anakin's acting, I thought it was fine, even good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForlornHope Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The films were designed to create a new fanbase, not just cater to the existing one. They succeeded in that regard, as the countless kids wearing Jango Fett and Clone Trooper costumes on Halloween are evidence of it. Not to mention the success of the Clone Wars TV series even with kids who have never seen the films. Older fans have a high level of nostalgia with the original trilogy and were overly critical of the prequels. I myself being born in 1987 grew up with the original trilogy on VHS then the special editions as a kid and the prequels through my teen years. I enjoyed all of them and find them all to be fun movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourn Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The films were designed to create a new fanbase, not just cater to the existing one. They succeeded in that regard, as the countless kids wearing Jango Fett and Clone Trooper costumes on Halloween are evidence of it. Not to mention the success of the Clone Wars TV series even with kids who have never seen the films. Older fans have a high level of nostalgia with the original trilogy and were overly critical of the prequels. I myself being born in 1987 grew up with the original trilogy on VHS then the special editions as a kid and the prequels through my teen years. I enjoyed all of them and find them all to be fun movies. I don't know, maybe it's just me. The only parts of the prequels I enjoy are the space combat/lightsaber scenes, everything else gets fairly droll. The original series never bores me when I watch it, the prequels I have to force myself to sit through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForlornHope Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I don't know, maybe it's just me. The only parts of the prequels I enjoy are the space combat/lightsaber scenes, everything else gets fairly droll. The original series never bores me when I watch it, the prequels I have to force myself to sit through. Well the prequels had more intrigue and were more political story wise compared to the originals which was more down to base. In the original trilogy you knew who the bad guys were and could relate heavily to the heroes and their rebel companions as the underdog fighting an evil empire. It could cause someone who doesn't care for that kind of story to become bored. Sounds like your a more a down to business action oriented person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourn Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Well the prequels had more intrigue and were more political story wise compared to the originals which was more down to base. In the original trilogy you knew who the bad guys were and could relate heavily to the heroes and their rebel companions as the underdog fighting an evil empire. It could cause someone who doesn't care for that kind of story to become bored. Sounds like your a more a down to business action oriented person. That seems like a reasonable judgement, but it's wrong. Slow pace and political intrigue I enjoy, if it's done properly. Some of the prequels I don't mind, but there are too many parts with bad acting, or a terrible script, that really breaks the immersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingerthecat Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) That seems like a reasonable judgement, but it's wrong. Slow pace and political intrigue I enjoy, if it's done properly. Some of the prequels I don't mind, but there are too many parts with bad acting, or a terrible script, that really breaks the immersion. And people back then didn't think the acting and dialogue was terrible? Alec, the OG Obi, said he hated that role because of those "bloody awful lines" I believe the reason the OT is better.... Maybe cus George Lucas actually used models and camera tricks for the effects... oh and actual sets, not a narrow stage and a blank screen behind the actors. Edited January 14, 2012 by Fingerthecat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenderBending Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The one biggest, simplest thing that would have made the prequels better is Lucas not surrounding himself with yes-men. But it's hardly the only thing. The whole prequel trilogy needed a fundamental rewrite. The writers (also, Lucas should have had actual writers) should have watched the original trilogy again to take notes. Obi-Wan, in episode 4, says Anakin was a good friend and a great Jedi knight. Yet in the prequels, all we ever see is Anakin and Obi-Wan constantly at odds with one another. Sure, they TALK about past experiences where they may have bonded and become close, but we never SEE it. We only see Anakin constantly questioning orders and just being a pretty crappy Jedi in general. We should have seen Anakin become a successful and powerful Jedi in 1 and 2, then see his tragic fall from grace in 3. Instead we get a trilogy with no main character, and Anakin being pretty questionable throughout. Nowhere do we see "good friend" or "great Jedi." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcoke Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Some of you guys may have read my other post in 'Why so much hate for the prequels', but since we're discussing how to fully change the prequels here I go! (Hope you like to read) Episode 1. The opening credits let us know the Republic is attempting to resolve a group of systems from separating from the Republic, due to word of a non-Republic clone army appearing in the galaxy, and that a queen on Naboo has recently been made senator to improve her standing in the senate to push her No Army stand. Camera pans down and a fighter flies by with Anakin (Age: 16) bobbing and weaving through an asteroid field as he pursues a holo-ship. This is simply a standard test for Anakin in his Jedi training. He ends up capturing the holo-ship within seconds thanks to some incredible piloting skills. He returns to the hanger to find Obi-Wan (Age: 26) waiting for him, complimenting him on his piloting but telling him not to be cocky either. Later they are told they will be acting as added security for the newly made senator due to news of other senators found slain. They meet up with senator Padame (Age: 19), by first appearances they are wowed by her age, as she is the youngest by far. But they quickly realize it is due to her incredible intelligence and silver-tongue. Down the road, after some time for these three characters to talk to one another, Obi-Wan leaves his padawan and Padame to go contact the Jedi Council to report their status. Padame questions Anakin about the Jedi as she knows very little, Anakin explains as best he can and shows off a little as he makes items levitate. This is cut short as the power goes out to the whole building. A figure bursts in through the door where Anakin and Padame are, Anakin sends Padame away and warns the individual. This person answers by drawing their saber, red in color and attacks Anakin. The fight lasts only seconds as Anakin is quickly over-whelmed and just before he is killed by the attacker, Padame fires a blaster, the attacker deflects it and starts to walk towards her when Obi appears. The two fight and Obi is forced to eject the attacker with a force push. The attacker isn't captured and after quickly conferring with the council, Obi and Anakin take Padame off planet towards Corusant (may be misspelled) where they believe she'll be safer. Word of the attack is spread quickly, causing fear is build up within the senators opposed to creating an army, but Padame is unshaken, her resolve has only grown stronger. As she attends a senate meeting, Obi and Anakin go to the Jedi Council, telling them of what they witnessed. The council mention the possibility of Sith once they hear of the red saber, but they also mention that the Sith went to extinct a hundred years ago at the death of a powerful Sith Lord. The senate meeting heats up as Padame and Palpatine square off in arguments about a formation of an army. Neither person 'wins' the argument but it is clear that Palpiatine is confident by the end. More systems separate from the Republic, feeling that the Republic has lost its back-bone as the threat of the clone army looms nearer. Two more senators are killed, both high standing people on Palpatine's stance, both killed on Corusant. security tightens for all the senators. Anakin is practicing his saber techniques at the temple as Obi and another Jedi guard Padame. Only after a couple hours, another attack spreads across the holo-terminals, stating Palpatine has been attacked by several attackers. Only moments later, screams erupt from downstairs, Obi and the other Jedi prepare themselves as the screams come closer. A guard stumbles in, says one word 'droids' and drops dead, a blaster shot in his back. Battle droids blast the door to pieces and and Obi and the other Jedi fend them off. Anakin senses his master in danger and jumps in a speeder and heads for Obi-Wan. Obi and the Jedi take down several droids before the droids stop firing and part for a figure to walk into the room. The person takes out their saber, and two beams of red fire out from either end, but with a quick flick of his wrist, the attacker throws a table at the two, Obi dodges it but the other Jedi is hit by it and thrown out a window. Obi and the attacker fight again, and while they do, the droids march into the room, attempting to walk by Obi and kill Padame. Obi fights them off the best he can but wears out and drops to a knee, the battle droids aim but Anakin jumps through the broken window and with a saber-throw, downs all the droids. Anakin and the attacker fight again with Obi aiding him as well. They manage to fight off the attacker again and the attacker flees, but he is stopped by a group of Jedi with Yoda leading them. The attacker is captured and his identity becomes known as, Darth Maul, he is detained to be questioned by the Jedi to discover his motives. Palpatine and Padame are both fine but Palpatine gains more support for his movement as the clone army are reported coming into Republic protected systems. Obi-Wan returns to the Jedi Temple to aide in questioning the assailant. Anakin practices his flight combat but his thoughts wander to Padame. And Padame returns to Naboo and receives a medical report, stating the illness has progressed. Credits... I know it's more of a fan-fic script but you have to admit it's not bad. I'll post my thoughts for how 2 and 3 should have been later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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