Bioware's unshaken confidence is troubling

[Allmightyprom]

According to VGchartz, SWTOR in week 1 sold 1.6 million. Week 2 300k. Week 3 40k.

 

Bioware has NOTHING to be confident about when they got kicked off the top 10 in just 3 weeks

 

only 1.6million copies in 1 week? Damn thats lame. Should be closer to 10 million.

[Sulvan]

I think most of the hatred about this game comes from the problems and the fact people expected more out of the game for the amount of time put into it, the amount of money spent, and how amazing it was advertised

[bbbmmmlll]

It's funny how this incredibly exaggerated statement is intended to make someone else look like a chump.

 

I played WoW for five years. I played it during its beta. I bought and played at midnight on launch day. It's a fun game, but it doesn't have the same appeal to me that it once did.

 

But to act like it didn't have any issues, or that it was some kind of "enchanting" experience (as someone else had put it), is a sign of complete and utter ignorance. Quite frankly, WoW was a horrible, horrible game back in 2004. I loved the hell out of it, but it reaked of glitches, errors, and poor game design. It suffered from server crashes. People constantly cried about poor customer support. Every other thread on the forums was clammoring about the failures that the game would inevitably bring.

 

This game shares some of those problems, and like the former, they will be fixed in time. Fortunately, there is noticeably less to fix in this game.

 

Guess what? They are both good games. One has had a chance to improve. The other is working on it.

 

I'm a little confused. WoW had issues, but it was by far better than any other MMO at that time. It was an iPod in a world of crappy products. The design choices they made brought MMORPGs to the casual crowd and away from the players that were happy to make three hour corpse runs or sit for 5 minutes between every fight staring at a spell book. WoW wasn't perfect, but it was exceptional which history backs up. Maybe you hadn't played any MMORPGs before WoW, which is probably the case given how many players WoW introduced to the world of MMORPGS. I wouldn't use the term 'enchanting', but it was great for it's time. The same can't be said for SWtOR, it's a decent game but other than voice acting it's pretty much the same old stuff.

[Jswizzle]

Yeah, you're right.

 

I should have read the back of the box where it said "This game has broken open world PVP and the leveling experiance is the most linear of any MMO on the planet"

 

STUPID me.

 

I'm guessing you didn't even read the back of the box where it says. Interactive story telling. Dynamic Combat. If you bought the game for top notch PVP again. You did no research and shouldn't complain.

 

You clearly haven't played many MMOs talking about linearity. If you want a huge sandbox with absolutely little to no direction. Everquest 1 will fulfill your needs. Except there is *zero* PvP and past a certain level you simply cannot solo for good exp.

[Daedalin]

I don't remember an outcry for Kinect support and Multiplayer for Mass Effect 3.

 

Bioware is trying to be the next Blizzard and they're failing MISERABLY. They've alienated their hard core fans and hoped to gain new ones. Instead all they've done is lost support.

 

In fact just these recent weeks, EA stock has gone from 25 dollars to 18 dollars

 

Coupled with the fact that EA has pulled pretty much all advertising for this game, it looks like they're losing confidence in SWTOR and the investors has caught wind of it

 

 

Your correct, there hasn't been. But really Blizzard and maybe a few other game companies have been able to sneak by with producing essentially the same game.

 

I don't blame Bioware for creating a game to be compatible with multiple sources. But us as peons will never know if it was a Bioware call, or an EA call. Since anyone who knows EA and has followed any track record of theirs, know they love money and will do whatever they can to make their customers part ways with it.

 

Your opinion is that Bioware is trying to be the next Blizzard, and it's your opinion that it's failing miserably.

 

How many people can you name, who when they heard Bioware was developing SWTOR went "WTH!?" Virtually none. Because Bioware has a reputation for putting out quality work, even if the game flow isn't always appreciated.

 

As for stock, Blizzard's fell recently too. (Has start to rise by the end of this week.) Nintendo has fallen, and Square Enix. Just because stock has fallen recently is not always an indicator that one game was a flop.

 

As for advertising, I just recently watched a review of SWTOR on game trailers, is that not advertising? And really, all games (With probably the exception of WoW) stop advertising once the product is out and selling.

[Blackwater]

I'm guessing you didn't even read the back of the box where it says. Interactive story telling. Dynamic Combat. If you bought the game for top notch PVP again. You did no research and shouldn't complain.

 

You clearly haven't played many MMOs talking about linearity. If you want a huge sandbox with absolutely little to no direction. Everquest 1 will fulfill your needs. Except there is *zero* PvP and past a certain level you simply cannot solo for good exp.

Dynamic combat?... What?... How is tank and spank in any way dynamic?

 

Also, comparing the linearity of other MMOs to SWTOR is disingenuous.

 

Yes, in every theme park MMO, you have to go from A to B. But in a game like WoW, going from A to B is like going from one goal post to the other on a soccer field. In SWTOR it's like going from one door to the other at the end of a hallway.

 

The objectives are linear but the world is not

[Yemmer]

By not changing formulas, then your pretty much paying 60 bucks for the same thing right?

 

By listing SWTOR (a new game, which had NO sequels) and Dragon Age 2 you make your point correct. However, Mass Effect is the glaring outlier to your comparison.

 

In my opinion, I've only played ONE mmo that could not be considered a WoW clone. And technically since Bioware has Ultima Online in 1997, couldn't we tack on that Blizzard copies their formula?

 

Really Bioware is an awesome company, that has produced many awesome games. (Yes, I enjoyed DA2 as much ad DA1. And thoroughly enjoyed Warhammer. Especially the PvP) EA on the other hand HAS regurgitated ideas that they bought, or developed "brand new." (The Sims anyone?)

 

Just because you have a personal disgust for the way the company may or may not have handled a games evolution, does not make them a bad developer. There is a very large difference between fact vs. opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

And you miss, bring up something excellent i must point out: Mass Effect, HUGE success in my opinion, AWSOME game, i liked the sequal as well! but i have a few issues.. Again, thanks to EA - NOT bioware specificly, even though they made it it was EA who made the calls.

 

1. Mass effect, that is.. ME1 Really is NOT old, At the time of it's release, i had widescreen, not.. too many did... i dont think, a year.. two years after? alot of people now have widescreen, Yet.. No patch for widescreen.. even though there have been updates, Now? Updates stopped when they started with ME2, Again EA's call "No, we are done with that game, your making a new one people already bought it, played it, we dont care about it anymore, now you can make the sequal."

 

As for ME2, i got ripped off, Badly, but that gets a bit complicated, to put it shortly, i paid for a service they failed to deliver, and insist they never got the $ even though it was pulled from my account, When i showed them evidence they insisted i gave them the wrong email address and it was my error, Again, this wasnt bioware it was EA.

 

 

Now look whats happening to ME2? Dude, it's awsome, sure a few bits and pieces are comming out, small patches.. added content... But you have to pay fir it.. thats fine if it were actually a major expansion.. but.. $12 for a new bit of gear? or somesuch like that? No thanks. Again, thats EA's call, Not giving anymore money to them if they want to be vultures.

[Blackwater]

Your correct, there hasn't been. But really Blizzard and maybe a few other game companies have been able to sneak by with producing essentially the same game.

 

I don't blame Bioware for creating a game to be compatible with multiple sources. But us as peons will never know if it was a Bioware call, or an EA call. Since anyone who knows EA and has followed any track record of theirs, know they love money and will do whatever they can to make their customers part ways with it.

 

Your opinion is that Bioware is trying to be the next Blizzard, and it's your opinion that it's failing miserably.

 

How many people can you name, who when they heard Bioware was developing SWTOR went "WTH!?" Virtually none. Because Bioware has a reputation for putting out quality work, even if the game flow isn't always appreciated.

 

As for stock, Blizzard's fell recently too. (Has start to rise by the end of this week.) Nintendo has fallen, and Square Enix. Just because stock has fallen recently is not always an indicator that one game was a flop.

 

As for advertising, I just recently watched a review of SWTOR on game trailers, is that not advertising? And really, all games (With probably the exception of WoW) stop advertising once the product is out and selling.

A lot of people were angry when they started to realize what SWTOR was, and a lot more were angry when they realized it was worse than they thought it would be.

 

The reaction of people range from "It's good" to "I hate it", I've yet to see a person who's said SWTOR has EXCEEDED their expectations.

 

And I agree about advertising, but SWTOR ISN'T selling well, in fact sales for this game have PLUMMETED

[MaximusRex]

Here's the deal: I want SWTOR to survive and flourish. I really like the game overall. However, there are GLARING issues with this game (I'm not going to rehash them here...no point in repeating it) and yet Bioware seems to be blissfully (blindly?) boastful of their game. I get how PR works, blah, blah (so don't attempt to give me a lesson), but I have seen ZERO humility on Bioware's part that indicates that they have heard their customers. Look at Trion. Whether you like Rift or not (I found it to be rather bland myself) that is a company working its a*s off for your $15 a month. They have approached the community with humility and open ears, and it has paid off. Meanwhile, Bioware is too busy spinning the hype machine and patting itself on the back to approach the community's concerns humbly and comprehensively.

 

Please know that I am writing this post as a fan of the game (and Bioware) and I really want the game to succeed. In my life, I have never seen an individual or entity succeed in the long term by avoiding self-reflection and constructive criticism.....ever.

 

If you think this you aren't useing the Dev tracker.

[robotsonik]

yeah ...it's not like they didn't just launch a massive game after extensive development to generally rave reviews, with near zero issues at launch.... to large/promising playerbase.

 

 

...nothing to be confident about there.

 

 

it's also GLARINGLY obvious that the game has been out less than a month. if this is your first MMO. maybe you don't know.

 

but the first 1-6mo of a new MMO is basically... paid beta.

 

expect. odd graphics glitches. bugged/missing content. rash class imbalance and totally borked game dynamics/exploits to be found.

 

 

also... GLARINGLY obvious. that the first month or so. any patch that comes down the line. will be to fix something that they can fix. or an emergancy type issue that has to be fixed.

 

also GLARINGLY obvious. users will QQ endlessly. talk as if they know stuff. make up facts, figures, and stats. claim they're unsubbing. worst game ever. server population is abandoning ship. sky is falling et al.

 

 

...so honestly. this is all par for the course.

 

but as always. if you're not having fun. no one is forcing you to play. and if you're not having fun. probably shouldn't get overly upset about it. and just not play

 

Agreed

 

My wife and I have yet to encounter anything "glaring". So far we're enjoying Bioware's product that has only been live for a month. Yes it's not WoW and we're both grateful. Coming from LOTRO's world where the game started at lvl 1 and not lvl 50/60 made us appreciate the story-focused content of SWTOR but I can understand why it frustrates those who have been trained by WoW and other games that don't begin until max level.

 

Bioware deserves to be proud of their new product. And I'm having a blast playing the crap out of it despite it's growing pains.

 

Cheers!

[Yemmer]

I don't remember an outcry for Kinect support and Multiplayer for Mass Effect 3.

 

Bioware is trying to be the next Blizzard and they're failing MISERABLY. They've alienated their hard core fans and hoped to gain new ones. Instead all they've done is lost support.

 

In fact just these recent weeks, EA stock has gone from 25 dollars to 18 dollars

 

Coupled with the fact that EA has pulled pretty much all advertising for this game, it looks like they're losing confidence in SWTOR and the investors has caught wind of it

 

Stock, while many like to judge success based on stock, is not accurate when it comes to 'People' Blizzard could suddenly lose every investor they have - they are still making $15 a month off over 12 million customers..... You you seriously think they are going to even going to flinch?

 

Prooobbbably.. not... and again, this is not all Biowares call, it's EA's call, Bioware is in a fight with EA currently you can look it up on google im sure.. but i have some inside knowledge (( i wont discuss here )) And right now, Bioware is fighting EA over a great number of things concerning Swtor, Sadly, EA has the final call, Unless Lucas pulls their license or EA backs the hell up and lets bioware work in peace. Right now it's simple:

 

 

Star Wars

 

BIG title

 

Bioware and EA want to make money off of it.

 

Bioware will actually put effort into it.

 

EA will simply milk it dry and wont give a rats ***.. and when they are done, they will pull the plug.

 

 

Which do you prefer?

[Daedalin]

A lot of people were angry when they started to realize what SWTOR was, and a lot more were angry when they realized it was worse than they thought it would be.

 

The reaction of people range from "It's good" to "I hate it", I've yet to see a person who's said SWTOR has EXCEEDED their expectations.

 

And I agree about advertising, but SWTOR ISN'T selling well, in fact sales for this game have PLUMMETED

 

Show me where? Pre-launch, pre-beta. Opinions will always change when the game releases, whether they go from positive to negative. Just like the will change 2 years from now.

 

I'm not saying SWTOR won't EVER flop, but to call it a flop barely a month out of the gate, wouldn't you call that... well... premature? Statistics wise WoW sold 240,000 copies it's first week. http://www.pvcmuseum.com/games/charts/world-of-warcraft-sales.htm SWTOR sold 1.2 million. http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-data/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

Don't you think that's a huge success that they should be proud of?

 

And here it is, SWTOR has exceeded my expecations. If you could actually look at my post history you will see where I've stated that I'm not even interested in Star Wars, but came from friends, and was blown away. So there is at least one person.

 

The game is doing fine. 1.2 million first week isn't terrible, especially for an MMO. What most people don't realize it's not always about NEW buyers to MMO's, but OLD buyers. How many will stay subscribing? Those numbers, I've yet to find.

 

Honestly my BIGGEST gripe with these discussions is most people compare Bioware (a branch of a company) to a whole company (I.E. Blizzard.) Most people fail to realize that Bioware cannot operate without getting EA's go ahead. Most people fail to realize HOW many games EA has their hands in (EA as a whole) vs. Blizzard. Just scroll through their wiki's, I promise you will be tired half way through EA's.

 

If you want to hate someone for a poor game launch/sales/customer service, don't hate Bioware. Hate EA.

[Blackwater]

Stock, while many like to judge success based on stock, is not accurate when it comes to 'People' Blizzard could suddenly lose every investor they have - they are still making $15 a month off over 12 million customers..... You you seriously think they are going to even going to flinch?

 

Prooobbbably.. not... and again, this is not all Biowares call, it's EA's call, Bioware is in a fight with EA currently you can look it up on google im sure.. but i have some inside knowledge (( i wont discuss here )) And right now, Bioware is fighting EA over a great number of things concerning Swtor, Sadly, EA has the final call, Unless Lucas pulls their license or EA backs the hell up and lets bioware work in peace. Right now it's simple:

 

 

Star Wars

 

BIG title

 

Bioware and EA want to make money off of it.

 

Bioware will actually put effort into it.

 

EA will simply milk it dry and wont give a rats ***.. and when they are done, they will pull the plug.

 

 

Which do you prefer?

So how is supporting SWTOR gonna help Bioware fight EA? All that's going to do is show EA that they can milk Bioware even more.

 

You have to come to terms with the fact that Bioware is past the point of no return. The founders of Bioware are now Vice presidents of EA. That ALONE should tell you that NOTHING will EVER change

[Blackwater]

Show me where? Pre-launch, pre-beta. Opinions will always change when the game releases, whether they go from positive to negative. Just like the will change 2 years from now.

 

I'm not saying SWTOR won't EVER flop, but to call it a flop barely a month out of the gate, wouldn't you call that... well... premature? Statistics wise WoW sold 240,000 copies it's first week. http://www.pvcmuseum.com/games/charts/world-of-warcraft-sales.htm SWTOR sold 1.2 million. http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-data/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

Don't you think that's a huge success that they should be proud of?

 

And here it is, SWTOR has exceeded my expecations. If you could actually look at my post history you will see where I've stated that I'm not even interested in Star Wars, but came from friends, and was blown away. So there is at least one person.

 

The game is doing fine. 1.2 million first week isn't terrible, especially for an MMO. What most people don't realize it's not always about NEW buyers to MMO's, but OLD buyers. How many will stay subscribing? Those numbers, I've yet to find.

 

Honestly my BIGGEST gripe with these discussions is most people compare Bioware (a branch of a company) to a whole company (I.E. Blizzard.) Most people fail to realize that Bioware cannot operate without getting EA's go ahead. Most people fail to realize HOW many games EA has their hands in (EA as a whole) vs. Blizzard. Just scroll through their wiki's, I promise you will be tired half way through EA's.

 

If you want to hate someone for a poor game launch/sales/customer service, don't hate Bioware. Hate EA.

 

6 years ago, selling 250,000 at launch was a colossal accomplishment... But guess what.. THIS ISN'T 5 YEARS AGO, this is 2012

 

You're offering hear-say and opinions. I'm offering facts. I have sources that show SWTOR is losing massive amounts of activity and sales.

 

http://www.swtorarena.com/statistics/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-data/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

You can even check amazon and see that SWTOR is plummeting from the top sellers. I don't know how much more proof you need

[Yemmer]

Show me where? Pre-launch, pre-beta. Opinions will always change when the game releases, whether they go from positive to negative. Just like the will change 2 years from now.

 

I'm not saying SWTOR won't EVER flop, but to call it a flop barely a month out of the gate, wouldn't you call that... well... premature? Statistics wise WoW sold 240,000 copies it's first week. http://www.pvcmuseum.com/games/charts/world-of-warcraft-sales.htm SWTOR sold 1.2 million. http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-data/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

Don't you think that's a huge success that they should be proud of?

 

And here it is, SWTOR has exceeded my expecations. If you could actually look at my post history you will see where I've stated that I'm not even interested in Star Wars, but came from friends, and was blown away. So there is at least one person.

 

The game is doing fine. 1.2 million first week isn't terrible, especially for an MMO. What most people don't realize it's not always about NEW buyers to MMO's, but OLD buyers. How many will stay subscribing? Those numbers, I've yet to find.

 

Honestly my BIGGEST gripe with these discussions is most people compare Bioware (a branch of a company) to a whole company (I.E. Blizzard.) Most people fail to realize that Bioware cannot operate without getting EA's go ahead. Most people fail to realize HOW many games EA has their hands in (EA as a whole) vs. Blizzard. Just scroll through their wiki's, I promise you will be tired half way through EA's.

 

If you want to hate someone for a poor game launch/sales/customer service, don't hate Bioware. Hate EA.

 

 

Not quite accurate but close: Blizzard is a branch of a larger company, same as Bioware, LIke EA Blizzards parent company EXPECTS Blizzard to Succeed and make them Money, BLIZZARD has Delivered on this Well-past expectations.. But the difference here is BLIZZARDS parent company keeps their fingers OUT of blizzards buisness because blizzard was so successful early on.

 

Bioware was bought by EA, and they continue to shove there noses, fingers, and two cents into what Bioware is doing - Now while its not in any way wrong for them to keep an eye on bioware.. as they DO own the company.. If they would leave bioware the **** alone and let them work they could have - and still BE doing a whole hell of alot better.

 

But unlike Blizzards parent company, EA 'Must have their two cents' and they 'Must' Have their Name pasted to the front of the game cover so EVERYONE KNOWS HOW COOL THEY ARE!.. Ego.. Someone should remind them Rome was a good portion of the entire planet which was, in essence, destroyed by Ego, They are simply a company, and their Ego is getting a bit large.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Yemmer

[MrTijger]

6 years ago, selling 250,000 at launch was a colossal accomplishment... But guess what.. THIS ISN'T 5 YEARS AGO, this is 2012

 

You're offering hear-say and opinions. I'm offering facts. I have sources that show SWTOR is losing massive amounts of activity and sales.

 

http://www.swtorarena.com/statistics/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-data/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

You can even check amazon and see that SWTOR is plummeting from the top sellers. I don't know how much more proof you need

 

You do know that the maker of that statistic says you are totally wrong, right? He comes here as well and put the smackdown on Xugos earlier today for making the same stupid claims.

[Blackwater]

You do know that the maker of that statistic says you are totally wrong, right? He comes here as well and put the smackdown on Xugos earlier today for making the same stupid claims.

I'm wrong about his own statistics showing that activity is going down?

 

Oh, alright then.

[DeadWoman]

6 years ago, selling 250,000 at launch was a colossal accomplishment... But guess what.. THIS ISN'T 5 YEARS AGO, this is 2012

 

You're offering hear-say and opinions. I'm offering facts. I have sources that show SWTOR is losing massive amounts of activity and sales.

 

http://www.swtorarena.com/statistics/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-data/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

You can even check amazon and see that SWTOR is plummeting from the top sellers. I don't know how much more proof you need

 

 

Can you offer more references to support your claim

[MrTijger]

Not quite accurate but close: Blizzard is a branch of a larger company, same as Bioware, LIke EA Blizzards parent company EXPECTS Blizzard to Succeed and make them Money, BLIZZARD has Delivered on this Well-past expectations.. But the difference here is BLIZZARDS parent company keeps their fingers OUT of blizzards buisness because blizzard was so successful early on.

 

Bioware was bought by EA, and they continue to shove there noses, fingers, and two cents into what Bioware is doing - Now while its not in any way wrong for them to keep an eye on bioware.. as they DO own the company.. If they would leave bioware the **** alone and let them work they could have - and still BE doing a whole hell of alot better.

 

But unlike Blizzards parent company, EA 'Must have their two cents' and they 'Must' Have their Name pasted to the front of the game cover so EVERYONE KNOWS HOW COOL THEY ARE!.. Ego.. Someone should remind them Rome was a good portion of the entire planet which was, in essence, destroyed by Ego, They are simply a company, and their Ego is getting a bit large.

 

A company has an ego now? Oh sorry, Ego. What the jeebus ever.

[Daedalin]

So how is supporting SWTOR gonna help Bioware fight EA? All that's going to do is show EA that they can milk Bioware even more.

 

You have to come to terms with the fact that Bioware is past the point of no return. The founders of Bioware are now Vice presidents of EA. That ALONE should tell you that NOTHING will EVER change

 

http://aboutus.ea.com/executive-sectionofficers.action#jr

 

6 years ago, selling 250,000 at launch was a colossal accomplishment... But guess what.. THIS ISN'T 5 YEARS AGO, this is 2012

 

You're offering hear-say and opinions. I'm offering facts. I have sources that show SWTOR is losing massive amounts of activity and sales.

 

http://www.swtorarena.com/statistics/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-data/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

You can even check amazon and see that SWTOR is plummeting from the top sellers. I don't know how much more proof you need

 

 

Did I not say that I never SWTOR won't flop? Your integrating two different topics of discussion into one.

 

Yes it isn't 5 years ago, but considering it out sold every other game that week, that is a huge success. Considering it was one of the smoothest launches to date (confirmed by many WoW players, and previous gamers) I find that a big deal.

 

Point being games will always die. Whether SWTOR dies 10 years from now, or tomorrow there will always be people who through around the articles you just did saying "I told you so."

 

Not quite accurate but close: Blizzard is a branch of a larger company, same as Bioware, LIke EA Blizzards parent company EXPECTS Blizzard to Succeed and make them Money, BLIZZARD has Delivered on this Well-past expectations.. But the difference here is BLIZZARDS parent company keeps their fingers OUT of blizzards buisness because blizzard was so successful early on.

 

My mistake. I always get the Activison-Blizzard relationship backwards.

[GreenEyed]

Sorry OP, I think you were expecting too much from the forums. It's full of people who have blind faith in the game and refuse to acknowledge any issues it has. These people wished so hard for this game to be good that they are afflicted with a very strong case of cognitive dissonance. In order to relieve the dissonance they ignore issues and focus on the parts they like.

 

I love this game, and I want to to succeed. For it to succeed, someone has to step up and point out issues that need to be handled. Unfortunately, it gets drowned out by all these trolls who convinced themselves there is nothing wrong with the game.

[Degarmo]

Of course it is dropping from the Amazon best seller list. MMOs generally do the majority of their first year sales in the first week.

[Rykzon]

Well, many good points of both sides. Problem is, ability delay is just an overkill and I highly doubt it'll be fixed before patch 1.2.

[Blackwater]

Of course it is dropping from the Amazon best seller list. MMOs generally do the majority of their first year sales in the first week.

Rift didn't

 

It actually had a pretty steady increase for a few months

[Daedalin]

Rift didn't

 

It actually had a pretty steady increase for a few months

 

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-data/49494/rift/