Switched from Combat to Watchmen...

[coldmiser]

...OMG my character doesn't make me cry anymore. What an amazing differance in survivability.

Before respecing I would be lucking to survive a fight with a group of three even levels (2 normal with 1 strong). I wouldn't even try an elite 1 or 2 levels below me.

Now, with only changing my spec, I rip through even con Elites and don't have to stop after every fight for health regen.

Before it gets asked I was level 18 when I respeced last night and all I changed was the spec.

Anyway...just wanted to share that.

[FourTwent]

agreed. i found myself coming into a new area and actually engaging in the new elite of the area, and would just mop the floor with them. it is very satisfying and extremely helpful against the 'harder' class bosses.

[Coramac]

...OMG my character doesn't make me cry anymore. What an amazing differance in survivability.

Before respecing I would be lucking to survive a fight with a group of three even levels (2 normal with 1 strong). I wouldn't even try an elite 1 or 2 levels below me.

Now, with only changing my spec, I rip through even con Elites and don't have to stop after every fight for health regen.

Before it gets asked I was level 18 when I respeced last night and all I changed was the spec.

Anyway...just wanted to share that.

 

Yes, Combat is unbelievably bad pre-40, really bad pre-43, bad until you get really good gear, and pretty close to par then.

[Ryuji_Sukata]

It gets even better once you start using Overload Saber and Merciless Slash to keep Cauterize's dot rolling. The amount of centering you get's AMAZING! Not only that but it's especially awesome to put the dots up on an enemy and use force stasis to watch his health plummet.

[coldmiser]

I love Overload Saber! That was a great addition going Watchman.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Yes, Combat is unbelievably bad pre-40, really bad pre-43, bad until you get really good gear, and pretty close to par then.

 

It's only "bad" lvl 20-30. Even then I never had a problem, but Watchman was slightly easier to get by with the small heals.

 

I have no idea how they thought giving a gimped Ataru form at lvl 20 helped Combat in any way.

 

Both Zealous Leap and Overload Sabers are amazing lvl 20 talents.

Edited January 13, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Coramac]

It's only "bad" lvl 20-30. Even then I never had a problem, but Watchman was slightly easier to get by with the small heals.

 

I have no idea how they thought giving a gimped Ataru form at lvl 20 helped Combat in any way.

 

Both Zealous Leap and Overload Sabers are amazing lvl 20 talents.

 

No, it's still quite bad at 30 or at least bad when you compare it to other Sentinel specs and other classes.

 

Until you divorce yourself from excessive reliance from the RNG at 40, Combat is terrible. After then, it's a Focus hog until 43. Then, it suffers heavily from the fact that Blade Rush is a strong scaling ability and not really good until you get better gear. It's definitely passable after Blade Rush and Focused Slash, but before then, it's just a bad spec. I say bad because it is light years behind the other specs. Focus gets a powerful, more or less frontloaded AoE. Watchman has far superior single target damage and a really cheap Cyclone Slash. Combat has inferior damage and inferior utility for leveling.

[AeetesSixFive]

It makes me kinda sad to see things like this sometimes. I lvled to 50 as combat and had very little trouble, the occasional stupid mistake or something like that was about it. I will say watchman is better than combat atm but..combat by no means is BAD. Like I said lvled 1-50 no problems.

[Coramac]

It makes me kinda sad to see things like this sometimes. I lvled to 50 as combat and had very little trouble, the occasional stupid mistake or something like that was about it. I will say watchman is better than combat atm but..combat by no means is BAD. Like I said lvled 1-50 no problems.

 

I had several levels where I was Combat. I use bad as a relative term. It's not like being Combat makes you impotent and completely incapable of functioning in the game, but it does put you behind both Focus and Watchman as a Sentinel and many of the other classes and specs. I'm sure there are classes with specs that are similar to Combat in terms of being behind the curve for leveling.

[RamzaBehoulve]

I had several levels where I was Combat. I use bad as a relative term. It's not like being Combat makes you impotent and completely incapable of functioning in the game, but it does put you behind both Focus and Watchman as a Sentinel and many of the other classes and specs. I'm sure there are classes with specs that are similar to Combat in terms of being behind the curve for leveling.

 

I killed much faster as Combat than Watchman once I hit 30 personally. Except elite mobs, everything overall died faster as Combat. And even then, Watchman was only 2-3s faster on an elite and I'd need to regen anyway after the fight, so I'd rather go faster on every other mob.

Edited January 13, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Blaaat]

Combat is the magickarp of this game, it's a good tree when you're level 43+ but before that... I think this tree is just poorly designed for leveling, it really says enough that when you get Combat's form (Ataru) you still have to spend 5 points before it becomes remotely usable but then you rapidly notice you get easily focus starved so you need to spend another 5 points to remedy that, which 3 of them are in another tree.

[Darth_Dynas]

don't tell me this, i just switched from watchman .. damn!

[Coramac]

I killed much faster as Combat than Watchman once I hit 30 personally. Except elite mobs, everything overall died faster as Combat. And even then, Watchman was only 2-3s faster on an elite and I'd need to regen anyway after the fight, so I'd rather go faster on every other mob.

 

You had a different experience my friend. When I was Watchman, I really didn't need a companion to help with anything. I did sometimes kill things faster with Combat. Sometimes I'd kill them much slower. The average was definitely slower. You can't really make any case for Combat for leveling as the entry talents for Watchman are just flat out better. Overload is far better than anything early in Combat. Focused Slash alone is better for leveling alone than anything you spend in Combat until Combat Trance.

 

Quick Recovery and Focused Slash are probably the two best talents for leveling in any of our trees. Combat also loses ground as you level as Slash gains ground for being trained ability. On the flip side, when you start getting better gear it gains very significantly on Slash.

[BenRislove]

meh I have been combat almost the whole way, I switched at 25 for a few levels, but I went back to combat.

 

Watchmen is certainly better against elites, but I really haven't had problems, I'm 41 right now, still no blade rush (focused slash is just more important). Watchmen didn't seem massively better, my sustainability wasn't a ton better. I use T7 to tank, maybe I could be watchmen, used 5-6 more buttons on random junk mobs and kill a little faster, but against bosses I just Zen+Relic+precision for massive damage, then blade storm and rebuild to prep another dump.

 

I see all these night/day experience posts from watchmen vs combat, and I frankly just didn't see it. Mobs don't usually live more than 20 seconds, so the forever overload saber x3 doesn't come up much. Precision and 3 slashes does a huge chunk of damage, and will almost always proc crit blade storm.

 

Watchmen is probably better, it's certainly better if you're doing the tanking (since the rotation allows good space for defensive cooldowns), and has self heals. Combat is terrible in the mid 20's It really feels like you are playing with 3 talent points (focused slash) until 33.

 

The best thing about watchmen for leveling is that the first 5 points are insane. So you get all your "good stuff" right away and you're never waiting extra levels before you get blade rush . (Blade Rush for 3 is worse than slash for 2).

 

Random note, if I wanted to balance the trees I would make the following change.

Focused Slash -> Combat

Crusader -> watchmen, increased to 3 points (33/point)

Dual Wield Mastery - > Reduced to 2 points. (I would also increase the total to 40% for a bit of a off-hand damage buff)

 

See combat uses the abilities in focused slash more, and rebuke is more of a watchmen ability (do to open rotation slots to use it)

 

TL;DR

Combat doesn't get all it's toys till 43. You MUST have focused slash for combat, so you're behind always.

Combat should use T7 or Doc, since you don't have many "openings" in your rotation for defensive cooldowns.

Watchmen requires careful attention to keep overload burn at 3 stacks, but its damage in incredible if done correctly.

Watchmen has more openings in the rotation for defensive cooldowns (or non-physical damaging abilities). So it's better if you want to use Kira.

[bevelian]

Watchman is amazing. Thats all I have to say in this thread.

[Tsuruchi]

Just switched from Combat to Watchman to do the Voss bonus series at level 50 and try it out.

 

I hate having to watch my Merciless buff to keep it from falling off.

I hate having to bind Slash somewhere and remember that it's set to shift+Merciless key.

I keep dying, even with the burn heals, can't even take out the beastmaster packs (I die before I even kill a standard difficulty beast).

I hate that I haven't seen any noticeable increase in my damage.

 

Overall, I find Watchman clunky - it does not live up to the hype.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Overall, I find Watchman clunky - it does not live up to the hype.

 

Watchman is harder to play. It's unlikely you mastered its play style in just a few hours compared to those who spent the last 30 levels with it.

 

While Watchman lovers often greatly exaggerate their results compared to Combat, it's far from being subpar or clunky, it's just different.

 

I also prefer Combat direct approach to damage and hate dots, but Watchman is still effective, especially during long fights.

Edited January 14, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[BenRislove]

Watchman is harder to play. It's unlikely you mastered its play style in just a few hours compared to those who spent the last 30 levels with it.

 

While Watchman lovers often greatly exaggerate their results compared to Combat, it's far from being subpar or clunky, it's just different.

 

I also prefer Combat direct approach to damage and hate dots, but Watchman is still effective, especially during long fights.

 

This is basically the crux of it. DoTs are good if they have the time to finish, but watchmen certainly isn't worse, and against bosses it is almost certainly better (until some gear level, which we don't know yet hah).