This game badly needs mods and macros.

[Manchuwook]

Where did I mention Blizzard? It's simple economics. It's also a solid project management concept. Although I'd wager good money based on your childish response you don't understand either of those terms.

 

 

Hmmmm. Maybe I should add in my signature that mindlessly hating WoW or SWTOR (or anything) is also a blatant case of lack of independent thought.

 

Is okay, I shorten it down to "I'm a pompous *** who inflicts my opinion as a side on every post everyone has to suffer through." It's an AddOn to chrome now.

 

Simple economics is a foreign and alien concept to me. Tell me of your home world, Usul?

Edited January 13, 2012 by Manchuwook

[ferroz]

DBM is makes everything EZ-mode for one.

DBM doesn't do anything that isn't available in the UI. There's nothing about it that is even vaguely a "cheat, hack or exploit" ... so that's not a example. Feel free to mention one, if there actually is one.

 

it certainly does less to make the game ez mode than using ventrillo... does that mean that you're going to say that using ventrillo a "cheat, hack or exploit" or are you going to be inconsistent and hypocritical?

 

I think if you can't learn to not stand in the bad without someone telling you in voice chat you deserve to not clear the encounter rubberneck. Just my opinion though.

Edited January 13, 2012 by ferroz

[Tikaru]

I vote "no", because like everyone else, I'm afraid of choices and customization. I also lack the ability to set up a macro, thus, macros are bad.

[Sendrel]

Well actually threat-meters are a pretty good example. No MMO-developer (including Blizzard) gives away the threat-mechanics, because if they did, tanks would have an incredibly easy time, even moreso when they play with people they know.

 

Blizzard does actually give access to the threat info now. Threat is a special case, and I'm not sure how you obscure that information short of making it completely random - which wouldn't really improve the game experience much.

 

With WoWs open API, players could build threatmeters anyway, just by trial and error. The first version of these things were pretty inaccurate, but in time they got how much threat exactly was generated by which skill and so the mechanics lay wide open.

 

The API wasn't necessary to determine threat values, only the combat log. The API was used to build the UI element that displayed threat.

 

 

 

Threat is a special case and I can see the argument against threat meters. I just disagree that not knowing the information is a particularly compelling gameplay mechanic.

[ferroz]

WOW mods allowed targeting/spell selection in vanilla. There were healing mods which would automatically target for you and choose the best spell to cast-you just had to hit a mouse button or key. An early patch in BC removed the ability to do both of those things. The most popular mod which used both of these was decursive (which continues to this day but with very different functionality). Although that was 5+ years ago, many people talk about it as if was still true today. (For example, see http://wow.joystiq.com/2006/10/06/huge-addon-changes-in-the-burning-crusade/)

I'm aware of that, but that's past tense... we're using present tense (ie, now) so the fact that wow's addons used to allow broken things, and don't any longer is kind of irrelevant. The fact that they fixed this long ago just show's that it's quite possible for BW to make an addon api that is flexible enough to let the community address the UI problems of the player base (much more thoroughly than BW can do itself) without having these sort of problems.

[well]

I would really like a firing range to bore sight and zero my weapons.I think my Kentucky windage is off.Generally I am for player's choice.As long as it doesn't effect others.That is the key.If the player can use it without having a advantage over others then it is something to look at.How you play the game is your business.How I play it is mine.I not interested in them myself unless someone comes up with a Raquel Welch companion.If they do sign me up!:eek:

[CaptainHagbard]

From the moment the combat log displays damage dealt information, all threat information can be deduced by testing and parsing. Threat values associated to debuffs, taunts, healing and buff application are deduced by testing. Which is how it was done in WoW.

 

The display part is also fairly easy with an overlay. The most "standard" combat log parser, ACT, has plugins for this. It also has plugins that allow the sharing of information between different players.

 

All in all, it's a completely pointless exercise not to provide these features through an API. It just turns what should be a basic UI function into an exercise into 3rd party application downloads and configuration. Keeping it simple through an API is a much better solution.

 

Well, if people will have to install and configure ACT before thay can do anything with the information the game provides, there will likely be a lot less people utilizing these things.

 

But still a full combat log with all the information on your groupmates is required and since the combat log we're getting will only contain information about yourself, there won't be any threat- or damage-meters in the foreseeable future.

[ferroz]

I don't want a DBM, because I want the devs to have it already in place; either with graphics I can actually see under/around my feet or with dialogue cues from the boss mob. Which is how raids were done in other games. Audio cues work best because, at the moment, I am distracted by vacillating health bars, cooldowns on 4 bars on the outside of the screen, my own health bar, my assist bar, and my target bar, scattered willy-nilly on the periphery of my screen.

How nice that you

• are not colorblind or otherwise partially sighted, so you can see the visual cues that are currently in game
  
• don't have a reading/information processing disorder so can read the dialogue queues quickly enough to react
  
• aren't deaf so can hear the audio cue's that are currently in game.
  

 

Pretending that your needs are the only ones that exist, and thinking that the fact that the game cater's to your abilities rather than other people's actually means that you have some sort of skill at the game is rather selfish.

[ferroz]

There seems to be a split here between UI altering mods (a la bartender) and gameplay assisting mods (a la DBM).

THe funny thing is that since we know we're getting a combat log (it's confirmed) we'll definitely get the latter via combat log parsing applications. There's very little they can do and not cripple the use of a combat log.

 

So railing against them is rather pointless..

[Sendrel]

Well, if people will have to install and configure ACT before thay can do anything with the information the game provides, there will likely be a lot less people utilizing these things.

 

But still a full combat log with all the information on your groupmates is required and since the combat log we're getting will only contain information about yourself, there won't be any threat- or damage-meters in the foreseeable future.

 

Couple things with this.

 

First, we're not entirely sure, based on the dev comment a couple days ago, what the combat log will entail. Whether it will be entirely personal information or not is too much of a leap at this point, imo.

 

Second, saying that not that many people will have access to it doesn't change the availability in the slightest. Its still out there.

[Manchuwook]

I'm aware of that, but that's past tense... we're using present tense (ie, now) so the fact that wow's addons used to allow broken things, and don't any longer is kind of irrelevant. The fact that they fixed this long ago just show's that it's quite possible for BW to make an addon api that is flexible enough to let the community address the UI problems of the player base (much more thoroughly than BW can do itself) without having these sort of problems.

 

True, which refers to the Pandora's Box someone had rattled off in another thread. BioWare should go in the opposite direction, spreading "We might not keep this" disclaimers liberally along the way.

 

Like

v0.0.1: You can unlock and move party frames (We might not keep this™)

v0.0.1a: You can unlock and move actionbars (We might not keep this™)

v0.0.1b: You can unlock and move healthbars (We might not keep this™)

...

v0.1.1f: You can resize the buff area and icons of targeted bosses but not players (We might not keep this™)

 

Hopefully the way the UI was done, it was broken into chewable elements for unit testing and the design team to say "Okay, at 1920x1200 resolution, the box starts at X=1000, Y=1100, and ends at X=1200, Y=1300... art team, you got that?"

[fainthftk]

No, it doesn't.

[Webstravaganza]

You didn't mention Blizzard explictly but you implied that you are talking about WoW. Why? Well, mostly because WoW is pretty much the only MMO around that even allows most of the things a lot of people want to do to their UI and game in general.

 

Wow, not only are you ridiculously biased and unthinking, but you appear to be having a conversation with the things you're thinking I mean to be saying and disregarding everything I'm actually saying.

 

That's a new level of forum crazy for me. I honestly don't know how to continue discussing the issue with you.

[Manchuwook]

How nice that you

• are not colorblind or otherwise partially sighted, so you can see the visual cues that are currently in game
  
• don't have a reading/information processing disorder so can read the dialogue queues quickly enough to react
  
• aren't deaf so can hear the audio cue's that are currently in game.
  

 

Pretending that your needs are the only ones that exist, and thinking that the fact that the game cater's to your abilities rather than other people's actually means that you have some sort of skill at the game is rather selfish.

 

My guild has a colourblind (but not your standard red/green shift or blue/red) person and a deaf person. It is nearly impossible for them in WoW. I would love for BW to approach their difficulties, too. Not the DBM team, but actual BioWare. Our deaf person is still screwed because vent is pretty important to raids - so I don't know what would help, so I can't suggest anything.

[Krazeh]

True, which refers to the Pandora's Box someone had rattled off in another thread. BioWare should go in the opposite direction, spreading "We might not keep this" disclaimers liberally along the way.

 

Or they could just perhaps look at the mistakes Blizzard made along the way and not repeat them? So not implement an API that lets mods select and cast abilities without user intervention but rather a more limited one such as is available currently in WoW?

[ferroz]

^ BioWare =/= Blizzard. BioWare actually hires multiple teams of devs, instead of whipping the mouse for Blizzard.

irrelevant. BW cannot have as many dev's as the community would. It is simply not possible for them to have the same breadth of coverage that a community designed addons would.

[CaptainHagbard]

Couple things with this.

 

First, we're not entirely sure, based on the dev comment a couple days ago, what the combat log will entail. Whether it will be entirely personal information or not is too much of a leap at this point, imo.

 

It's not only that. Georg Zoeller said in an interview with some Norwegian Podcas (google it, it's out there), that the reason why there is no combat log at the moment, is the sheer volume of information generated by it. This is because in TOR we fight roughly three times the enemies we wouldn in a normal MMO, which is why a combat log, which takes in all of the surrounding generates a heap of data, that can't be properly processed in the short ammount of time a fight lasts. That's why he said, that it's not possible to have such a combat-log in the game.

 

Second, saying that not that many people will have access to it doesn't change the availability in the slightest. Its still out there.

 

I just said, that if people would have to use the Advanced Combat Tracker for the thing to work, there would be less people with damage-meters than if they opened the API for it. The fact that there would be a theoretical damage-meter, if there would be full combat-log didn't play into that at all.

[ferroz]

With WoWs open API, players could build threatmeters anyway, just by trial and error. The first version of these things were pretty inaccurate, but in time they got how much threat exactly was generated by which skill and so the mechanics lay wide open.

even without the api; all you need is the combat log and some people working to derive the formulas behind it. I seem to recall that it was done rather extensively in EQ, and SOE was really tight lipped on how all the formulas worked.

[DammitCat]

A vocal minorityof this game's players badly want mods and macros!!

 

Fixed.

Edited January 13, 2012 by DammitCat

[Arugess]

All I want is UI scale.

[Webstravaganza]

A vocal minorityof this game's players badly want mods and macros!!

 

Fixed.

 

Because clearly, skewing one unsubstantiated fact and changing it around isn't exactly the same thing that made you angry/irritated/upset enough to post in the first place.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Webstravaganza

[Phanatik]

I am against macros!!!

 

Im am to lazy to use...and I think it makes others lazy!

 

Mods sure...I want better party icons. and more damn bars for my abilities!

Edited January 13, 2012 by Phanatik

[Krazeh]

It's not only that. Georg Zoeller said in an interview with some Norwegian Podcas (google it, it's out there), that the reason why there is no combat log at the moment, is the sheer volume of information generated by it. This is because in TOR we fight roughly three times the enemies we wouldn in a normal MMO, which is why a combat log, which takes in all of the surrounding generates a heap of data, that can't be properly processed in the short ammount of time a fight lasts. That's why he said, that it's not possible to have such a combat-log in the game.

 

Eh? Correct me if i'm wrong but surely all a combat log does is record the information that's already been processed by the game. The game already knows and has processed that you've been hit for X, Y and Z amounts by the enemies you're fighting and what skills have been used to cause that damage. And it knows and has processed what skills you've used and the damage that's inflicted on the enemies you're facing. The only difference with having a combat log is that the information is recorded rather than just being discarded. I can't see how that is adding such a major resource requirement that it's not possible to do or if that is indeed the case how other games can manage to do it when you face multiple enemies at once.

[Sofail]

Yes to Macros Edited January 13, 2012 by Sofail

[DammitCat]

Because clearly, skewing one unsubstantiated fact and changing it around isn't exactly the same thing that made you angry/irritated/upset enough to post about.

 

Oh no I was mocking these guys. The game is fine without mods and macros, but it really won't bother me if they do add them in.

 

Anywho, continue.

Edited January 13, 2012 by DammitCat