This game badly needs mods and macros.

[DaxRendar]

The problem with the 'play the game the way the devs intended' argument is that its subject to change. You're arguing from authority, only the authority is borrowed from the devs and its just as likely to change as it is to stay consistently in your favor. So in order to fully embrace that position, you have to be willing to embrace addons should the devs ever actually implement them.

 

I ran a pretty tricked-out HUD in WoW (felt I needed to because the Base UI was such crap), and if BW does add them to SWTOR I will either start using the ones I "need" to for PvP or PvE... or I will quit the game if their API supports things that seriously degrade my enjoyment of it.

 

Amazingly, I can be mature about my position

 

Not to anyone with more than two functioning brain cells.

 

Based on many posts I've seen in threads like this, there are a lot of people running around with 2 or less brain cells then

 

And you're still stuck on DBM? Seriously, give it a rest. Blizzard incorporated that addon into the stock UI and there are a ton of really good reasons why they did. That said, it wasn't required prior to being incorporated and its probably not required now.

 

And some of the features of DBM are already present in SWTOR so DBM and addons like it aren't needed - thanks for agreeing with me!

[TradewindNQ]

WoW removed the ability for most addons to autotarget with 2.0 (which was The Burning Crusade).

 

Keep in mind, this was after WoW had been live for 2 years. So yes, some of us had to put up with others using automation addons for 2 years and we aren't that excited to see it possibly happen in TOR.

 

 

 

People still use them - whether you want to label them as clueless or not.

 

 

But why does it matter? Why does it cause such a great offense that someone is relying on automation to do a worse job than you are able to do without it? Maybe they -need it- to enjoy the game. Who are you to decide who can and can't enjoy a game?

 

Ever consider that some addons such as the old healbot were popular because of their accessibility to someone who is disabled? Some features now included in WoW (colorblind mode) were first only possible using mods.

Edited January 25, 2012 by TradewindNQ

[gregordunbar]

Do you feel special for slinging your anonymous Internet smart remarks around? Does that make you feel e-tough?

 

Snip.

 

It's not up for debate. Once DPS meters/threat meters and training wheels "DBM" is in the game, new content will have to be developed to assume it's being used - if it's not, pro-addon users will decry the new content as being "too easy."

 

Irony much?

 

It IS up for debate, you however are not debating, you are telling, and you are doing so by removing everyones points and replacing it with your own assumptions.

 

Allowing mods and allowing ALL TYPES of mods are not the same thing.

 

Allowing UI mods does not = allowing mods that automate your character.

Allowing mods that take numbers and places them into an easily readable way does not = allowing a mod that allows you to port hack

Allowing mods that allow you to click heals easier does not allow you to HEAL FASTER THAN THE GAME ALLOWS...that is why the game has cooldown timers SO YOU CANT ACTUALLY HEAL FASTER THAN THE GAME MAKER WANTS YOU TO!

 

It doesnt matter if a mod allows you to click ONCE to heal someone because you can have the EXACT SAME SKILL COOLDOWNS as the person without the mod...the difference is that the person with the mod only has to click ONCE to do it allowing him to do MORE than just heal.

 

Hell I dont even need a mod to do that, im giving it as an example because anyone, and I do mean anyone that actually likes to game already has a macro keyboard or mouse and has it set up to do it.

 

Yes thats right, people are already more uber leet cheaters than you cause they dont have the skills and suck as players for wanting to be more effective at their class and use it to its full capability and got around Biowares bantha poodoo design that doesnt allow a player to actually play the game as full as the GAME THEY MADE WOULD ALLOW WITH A GOOD UI DESIGN!

 

See, that is how you debate. Not with assuming someone is going on what you think people do...but by using actual real world talking points based not on opinion but on FACT.

 

A level 17 Jedi Counsler has 2 heals. One with a 1.5 second cooldown and 1 with a 2.5 second cooldown.

 

No mod can change that, no mod people are asking for tries to change. Facts not opinion.

[mdobrowney]

The game baddly needs more threads about mods and macros

 

 

I am not sure what you mean by mods. I am guessing it is gaming editing .. If so .. No thanks,. And as for the marcos. Anyone that wants to play with marcos is just lazy. I am No for both ..

[Raeln]

Point still stands as intended. You don't NEED the force points/Heat/ammo meter, you could manually keep track of them. I'm surprised you don't find that easy mode.

 

Also, many school classes require a calculator because the advanced math taking place is nearly impossible without it. If ToR ever hopes to achieve that kind of raid complexity, they are going to need mods/addons/macros etc.

 

Balancing a checkbook is not advanced math.

 

College level calculus is.

 

I was not allowed to use calculators back when I was in a general math class in 7th grade. I was allowed to use calculators in Trig and Calc in high school though. The point was, "hey - he knows how to do basic math, we're trying to teach advanced principles here."

 

^^ is sort of like saying, "oh hey, he has owned normal mode Flashpoints and Operations but he's trying to run hardmode/nightmare mode now, he knows how to play at a basic level, he's probably ready for more tools."

 

....which incidentally look at my post history, goes right along with me being fine if group-based DPS meters are enabled in hardmode operation instances only.

 

You see - I'm not entirely anti-addons. I want mouseover targeting. I'd like dumb macros so I could combine my relic and adrenals into one button. I absolutely do not want logic processing addons though, simply addons that rearrange data.

 

Note: DPS meters are logic processing addons. They should be prohibited outside of hardmode content areas.

[Sendrel]

Based on many posts I've seen in threads like this, there are a lot of people running around with 2 or less brain cells then

 

Trudat. Most notably, the people comparing addons to hacks and cheats.

 

And some of the features of DBM are already present in SWTOR so DBM and addons like it aren't needed - thanks for agreeing with me!

 

Go back through my posts and find for me where I ever said DBM was necessary. I'll wait.

 

If you were to ask for my position on DBM, I'd tell you that I think its great in that it adds another layer of accessibility for people who don't process visual information very well. Can't reliably see the goo you're not supposed to stand in due to some visual impairment? No problem, DBM can help you by presenting that information in a manner that you can process.

 

That's what DBM adds. People claiming it plays the game for you or otherwise brings on the apocalypse are, at best, misinformed.

[gregordunbar]

ROFL, what exodus?

 

You really dont know much about this game or the company...

 

EAs stock value was downgraded after the companies conference call with the CEO talking about the disappointment with the game, its subscription retention and costs. EAs stock has dropped more than $3 though has regained slightly since. The drop downgrade was given due to the first churn rate of subscriptions.

 

I await the spin because the blinders are on, better to act as if nothing is wrong than to admit it and try to get things fixed amirite?

[Raeln]

Irony much?

 

It IS up for debate, you however are not debating, you are telling, and you are doing so by removing everyones points and replacing it with your own assumptions.

 

Allowing mods and allowing ALL TYPES of mods are not the same thing.

 

Allowing UI mods does not = allowing mods that automate your character.

Allowing mods that take numbers and places them into an easily readable way does not = allowing a mod that allows you to port hack

Allowing mods that allow you to click heals easier does not allow you to HEAL FASTER THAN THE GAME ALLOWS...that is why the game has cooldown timers SO YOU CANT ACTUALLY HEAL FASTER THAN THE GAME MAKER WANTS YOU TO!

 

It doesnt matter if a mod allows you to click ONCE to heal someone because you can have the EXACT SAME SKILL COOLDOWNS as the person without the mod...the difference is that the person with the mod only has to click ONCE to do it allowing him to do MORE than just heal.

 

Hell I dont even need a mod to do that, im giving it as an example because anyone, and I do mean anyone that actually likes to game already has a macro keyboard or mouse and has it set up to do it.

 

Yes thats right, people are already more uber leet cheaters than you cause they dont have the skills and suck as players for wanting to be more effective at their class and use it to its full capability and got around Biowares bantha poodoo design that doesnt allow a player to actually play the game as full as the GAME THEY MADE WOULD ALLOW WITH A GOOD UI DESIGN!

 

See, that is how you debate. Not with assuming someone is going on what you think people do...but by using actual real world talking points based not on opinion but on FACT.

 

A level 17 Jedi Counsler has 2 heals. One with a 1.5 second cooldown and 1 with a 2.5 second cooldown.

 

No mod can change that, no mod people are asking for tries to change. Facts not opinion.

 

I don't think very many anti-addon players in this thread are hitting on your addons to reduce healing from 2-clicks to 1. Most are concerned with real game changing addons like DPS meters, threatmeters and addons that provide benefits similar to DBM.

 

I've seen many people say they would be completely fine with addons that allowed you to recolor or rearrange your UI. I'm fine with that.

 

I am completely against game-changing addons like DPS meters and threatmeters for the normal areas of the game though. If you absolutely must have those addons in the game, then they should be force-locked to those areas of the game. I will not deny the benefit a DPS meter to a raid leader trying to figure out why his or her nightmare mode raid is wiping on a boss; however, the DPS meter should only be available in that raid mode and not in normal mode - where it has been proven many times over that the current normal mode content can be taken down without any addons at all.

[Raeln]

You really dont know much about this game or the company...

 

EAs stock value was downgraded after the companies conference call with the CEO talking about the disappointment with the game, its subscription retention and costs. EAs stock has dropped more than $3 though has regained slightly since. The drop downgrade was given due to the first churn rate of subscriptions.

 

I await the spin because the blinders are on, better to act as if nothing is wrong than to admit it and try to get things fixed amirite?

 

How about a "I don't care?"

 

How much has the other guys stock dropped since they've announced they have lost over a million subscribers since Failaclysm?

 

You think Bioware adding addons is going to stop any such "massive exodus"? Please. If anything, it'd accelerate it.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Raeln

[DaxRendar]

Given how much was spent in development, I REALLY doubt that 'go back to WoW nub, lulz' is the response the developers are going to arrive at.

 

Losing a handful of "Omgz I needz my crutches" subscribers while keeping a large population of subscribers who can and do enjoy playing the game as it is will be quite acceptable to them...

 

After all, if they really felt Addons were important, they'd have already included the API or announced that support was coming soon.

 

I wonder how many of the posters in these threads are just really bitter Curse Employees who can't stand that they can't cash in on SWTOR like they did on WoW?

[Raeln]

Losing a handful of "Omgz I needz my crutches" subscribers while keeping a large population of subscribers who can and do enjoy playing the game as it is will be quite acceptable to them...

 

After all, if they really felt Addons were important, they'd have already included the API or announced that support was coming soon.

 

I wonder how many of the posters in these threads are just really bitter Curse Employees who can't stand that they can't cash in on SWTOR like they did on WoW?

 

Plausible, I suppose. They certainly seem to have a lot of free time on their hands.

[DaxRendar]

You really dont know much about this game or the company...

 

EAs stock value was downgraded after the companies conference call with the CEO talking about the disappointment with the game, its subscription retention and costs. EAs stock has dropped more than $3 though has regained slightly since. The drop downgrade was given due to the first churn rate of subscriptions.

 

I await the spin because the blinders are on, better to act as if nothing is wrong than to admit it and try to get things fixed amirite?

 

Actually their Stock went up the next day when two other analysts came out in support of EA and the game and said the other guy was full of it... but selective facts are your specialty after all

[Frostvein]

Even if they don't allow outside mods, you can bet on it that they will have a DPS/Heal/Damage taken etc Meter, Combat Log, and Macros.

 

So you realize most of you are arguing over the exclusion of many QoL mods and perhaps DBM, right?

[DarthNemis]

I had spend 100 dollars on a mouse because this game wouldnt include addons and macros to enable me to better customize my UI. I hate how this game feels like it keeps cutting my legs out from under me. Are people really that hatefull towards those that use addons and macros? Its really easy to use them aswell : / . But hey. If you dont want to use them you dont have too. Let us play our game the way we want to play it. You guys can play your game the way you want to play it.

[gregordunbar]

How about a "I don't care?"

 

You think I cant tell that with how you are posting and basing your arguments? If it doesnt suit you, assume, so you can form an opinion against it that makes sense to you.

 

BTW, your not caring leads a lot to this...

 

I simply cannot understandthis need for people to work so hard at making their game so easy -

 

its a real shocker that a person that chooses not to care, cannot understand others, how they think, fell or do things.

 

Sorry to break it to you but the world is filled with people nothing like you and trying to force them to do everything the way you do it is rather...small of you. MMORPGs are supposed to cater to a VARIETY OF PEOPLE AND PLAYSTYLES.

 

Perhaps...lol...maybe a little of what was just said got through and you can understand at least a little why one of the many things missing from the game caused the exodus that caused the downgrade that cause a drop in value of almost 20% in the companies value which btw is money the company now does NOT HAVE TO REINVEST INTO THE GAME.

 

Holy mother of...isnt it amazing how some people think that because they dont want something in game that it doesnt mean someone else does and that perhaps by expanding on a good game it can beomce GREAT and thus end up with MORE players instead of LESS...oh wait, not caring, forgot.

[Raeln]

You think I cant tell that with how you are posting and basing your arguments? If it doesnt suit you, assume, so you can form an opinion against it that makes sense to you.

 

BTW, your not caring leads a lot to this...

 

Please apply some reading comprehension before replying.

 

I said, "I don't care", in regards to EA's stock price, not the game or debate involving addons.

 

its a real shocker that a person that chooses not to care, cannot understand others, how they think, fell or do things.

 

Sorry to break it to you but the world is filled with people nothing like you and trying to force them to do everything the way you do it is rather...small of you. MMORPGs are supposed to cater to a VARIETY OF PEOPLE AND PLAYSTYLES.

 

Perhaps...lol...maybe a little of what was just said got through and you can understand at least a little why one of the many things missing from the game caused the exodus that caused the downgrade that cause a drop in value of almost 20% in the companies value which btw is money the company now does NOT HAVE TO REINVEST INTO THE GAME.

 

Holy mother of...isnt it amazing how some people think that because they dont want something in game that it doesnt mean someone else does and that perhaps by expanding on a good game it can beomce GREAT and thus end up with MORE players instead of LESS...oh wait, not caring, forgot.

 

Man, you are really taking something far, far out of context here.

[formulaic]

I had spend 100 dollars on a mouse because this game wouldnt include addons and macros to enable me to better customize my UI. I hate how this game feels like it keeps cutting my legs out from under me. Are people really that hatefull towards those that use addons and macros? Its really easy to use them aswell : / . But hey. If you dont want to use them you dont have too. Let us play our game the way we want to play it. You guys can play your game the way you want to play it.

 

I'm sorry, but Bioware clearly did not mean for you to use macros... it's cheating!!!

 

Instead, you should use the official mouse - http://www.razerzone.com/swtor/mouse

"The Razer driver software allows easy organization and absolute freedom to remap key binds, character abilities, and macros to all the buttons to keep you on top of your game."

 

So, err.... ummm... yeah.

[gregordunbar]

Actually their Stock went up the next day when two other analysts came out in support of EA and the game and said the other guy was full of it... but selective facts are your specialty after all

 

Yes lets look at those selective facts if you can see with those blinders on.

 

Pre-downgrade stock value, Announcement of presales value $21.30. Downgrade day $20.53, bottomed $17.74...today $17.88 at this moment.

 

Yep, it regained .14 wow, thank god all is well and the game didnt lose an injection of money!

 

hows your selective facts going for you? they seem your specialty.

 

oh wait, forgot the wink...no actually, I dont need one.

[gregordunbar]

Please apply some reading comprehension before replying.

 

I said, "I don't care", in regards to EA's stock price, not the game or debate involving addons..

 

Why not, you reject or ignore all other counter points that you cannot refute.

 

You already proved you are not here to debate.

 

It's not up for debate.

 

Remember? ITS NOT UP FOR DEBATE, your opinion counts, nothing else does. your opinion is NOT up for debate. No facts, no other opinions, just yours. its not debatable.

[DaxRendar]

Yes lets look at those selective facts if you can see with those blinders on.

 

Pre-downgrade stock value, Announcement of presales value $21.30. Downgrade day $20.53, bottomed $17.74...today $17.88 at this moment.

 

Yep, it regained .14 wow, thank god all is well and the game didnt lose an injection of money!

 

hows your selective facts going for you? they seem your specialty.

 

oh wait, forgot the wink...no actually, I dont need one.

 

Oh my gosh! You are so right! I've seen the LIGHT... now if only they announce Addons Support the stock price will rise again!!!

 

(or not )

[Manchuwook]

Plausible, I suppose. They certainly seem to have a lot of free time on their hands.

 

I do QA for a software company - so when it comes to UI's not living up to the customer's expectations as well as going back and forth to devs, I got it covered. :3

 

As mentioned elsewhere; users should not be fighting the interface, they should be USING the interface.

 

As far as game mechanics go, the infrastructure for handling macros is already there: Global Cooldowns, Cooldowns, Skill chains with random Procs (Tele. Throw till instacast proc comes up or Building Force Regen stacking buff), and lockouts (power can't be used until target is stunned). On top of blocking automation, it limits macros themselves having usefulness. I'm fairly certain that all of these came into play in the course of years that prototypical MMOs have developed. It is oversimplifying to say that a mage can hit 1 button and do max damage with 7 different spells. They might be able to do that in most circumstances, but it won't for every one - and that is how you can distinguish the bad players from the good.

 

Anything that has players making a piano out of their keyboard is fighting the interface and not using it effectively.

[Raeln]

Why not, you reject or ignore all other counter points that you cannot refute.

 

You already proved you are not here to debate.

 

 

 

Remember? ITS NOT UP FOR DEBATE, your opinion counts, nothing else does. your opinion is NOT up for debate. No facts, no other opinions, just yours. its not debatable.

 

Again, taking things out of context.

[Bigtarr]

The little map in the right hand corner of the screen in this warzone needs to be movable. It block the top 3-4 right hand action bar buttons.

[Kiphere]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=233917

 

User mods are a headache. Just add the proper things into the stock UI. A soft macro system, a better UI in general, more modifiable UI elements, etc. All covered in my suggestion thread.

[Raeln]

I do QA for a software company - so when it comes to UI's not living up to the customer's expectations as well as going back and forth to devs, I got it covered. :3

 

As mentioned elsewhere; users should not be fighting the interface, they should be USING the interface.

 

As far as game mechanics go, the infrastructure for handling macros is already there: Global Cooldowns, Cooldowns, Skill chains with random Procs (Tele. Throw till instacast proc comes up or Building Force Regen stacking buff), and lockouts (power can't be used until target is stunned). On top of blocking automation, it limits macros themselves having usefulness. I'm fairly certain that all of these came into play in the course of years that prototypical MMOs have developed. It is oversimplifying to say that a mage can hit 1 button and do max damage with 7 different spells. They might be able to do that in most circumstances, but it won't for every one - and that is how you can distinguish the bad players from the good.

 

Anything that has players making a piano out of their keyboard is fighting the interface and not using it effectively.

 

Yeah, but you cannot extrapolate that to every circumstance though. I mean, we could say that having to drive yourself back to your corpse was fighting the interface too much back in pre-2.0 WoW - apparently someone did, as they wrote an addon to automatically steer your ghost back to the corpse.

 

Blizzard decided that sort of automation was too much and broke automation (for other reasons, primarily).

 

I can tell you right now that I hate healing in TOR. No mouseover targeting, broken focus target system, and no good way to see who has debuffs that need removed. These are items that the stock UI should provide a solution for. I think Blizzard has done a disservice to the gaming industry by just washing their hands of it and releasing a substandard UI and essentially giving their playerbase a blank check of API hooks to write their own interface.

 

Even though there are things that I don't like with TOR's interface - in a way, I enjoy it because I know it's the same thing everyone uses - especially when I decide to queue up for a warzone. There are no "totem stomper" addons. No healer marking addons. No <insert gaming edge> here addons.

 

It adds a level of gaming enjoyment to my game that everything is standard - even if it isn't the best that it can be at the moment.