Game_Hermit Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Some of the morality choices are really screwed up. Today I had a gun to the head of an imperial mass murderer who killed hundreds of innocent civilians. I have the choice to kill him or let him go. If I let him go he's just going to kill hundreds more people. I decide to do the right thing and save hundreds of innocent lives....and I get dark side points. Wait, WHAT?! On Korriban my sith got light side points for betraying the guy he was questing for and helping his apprentice frame him for money. Who decides this stuff? They clearly don't understand the difference between good and evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenjohnp Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Well it is evil. You have taken someone elses life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excise Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ultimately, Light does not necessarily mean good. And Dark does not necessarily mean evil. Light goes from compassion to honour to naivety and more. Dark goes from greed to cruelty to pragmatism and more. Killing a murderer falls under pragmatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunabaguna Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 For the last time, it's not morality, ls and ds are partially political, partially ethics, partially degrees of Buddhism. Emotions, which are neither ethical nor non ethical, are dark side, politics, rep or empire, are ls/ds etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokosan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 good and evil need not apply its light side vs dark side - honestly its kind of selfish really either way you slice it "as long as I dont personally have to take a life, i'm good" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Well it is evil. You have taken someone elses life. That's the problem. There are situations where you can argue that killing someone is the morally good thing to do... You're trapped in a cave at the beach because your chubby friend got stuck in the entrance/exit. The tide is still coming in through small holes and you know you'll drown eventually unless you use a stick of dynamite conveniently left behind by a previous explorer. You can blow up your friend, saving you and your other friends, or you can all die and not actively kill anyone. While it's a long stretch, the point is that there are places where morality becomes gray and it's difficult to define something as overtly good or bad--as objective as those qualifiers are. This isn't the case in TOR, which presents just about every moral decision as "Death is bad." Does it work? Definitely. Does it make sense for the IP? Sure. Is it shallow? Kinda... Edited January 13, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Well it is evil. You have taken someone elses life. You're saying the government is evil for executing serial killers? I'm the government (trooper) and I just executed a serial killer who will certainly keep doing it. It's the same thing. Letting him go when I had the chance to stop him would mean I indirectly murdered hundreds. Edited January 13, 2012 by Game_Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDTC Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 on alderaan i had: "Glory to the Empire" - Light Side "I'd like more credits" - Dark Side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashaan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Actually, there was a choice in there to capture him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Actually, there was a choice in there to capture him. It never gave me that choice. I'm not saying it wasn't there, but if it was it either wasn't clear about what that choice did or I didn't make the right choices to unlock it. I could only kill him or let him go. Edited January 13, 2012 by Game_Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthLightning Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 dark side=/=evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 dark side=/=evil So Palpatine and Vader are the good guys then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliotic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This isn't the case in TOR, which presents just about every moral decision as "Death is bad." Does it work? Definitely. Does it make sense for the IP? Sure. Is it shallow? Kinda... It didnt say "death is bad", it said "death is dark side". If you are actually acting out a 'role' (even as a jedi or sith) you'll find yourself taking both light side and dark side points because sometimes the right (or wrong) thing to do is dark side and some times it is light side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdatik Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Well it is evil. You have taken someone elses life. I've received light side points for killing someone. You're saying the government is evil for executing serial killers? I'm the government (trooper) and I just executed a serial killer who will certainly keep doing it. It's the same thing. Letting him go when I had the chance to stop him would mean I indirectly murdered hundreds. Actually, many people argue it is wrong to take another life. Very few 1st world countries actually use the death penalty. So Palpatine and Vader are the good guys then? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman Edited January 13, 2012 by Bdatik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 So Palpatine and Vader are the good guys then? Palpatine isn't the Dark Side. He uses the Dark Side to do evil things. It doesn't make the Dark Side inherently evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashaan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It never gave me that choice. I'm not saying it wasn't there, but if it was it either wasn't clear about what that choice did or I didn't make the right choices to unlock it. I could only kill him or let him go. I think it was that you didn't make the right secondary choices to unlock it. I'm assuming you're talking about the Trooper storyline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookami_Nikurasu Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Ultimately, Light does not necessarily mean good. And Dark does not necessarily mean evil. Light goes from compassion to honour to naivety and more. Dark goes from greed to cruelty to pragmatism and more. Killing a murderer falls under pragmatism. ^This. its kinda the same to say that, the empire is all evil and the republic is all good. thats not always the case, just take a look at the trooper story. things are not always as simple as black and white. Edited January 13, 2012 by Ookami_Nikurasu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It didnt say "death is bad", it said "death is dark side". If you are actually acting out a 'role' (even as a jedi or sith) you'll find yourself taking both light side and dark side points because sometimes the right (or wrong) thing to do is dark side and some times it is light side. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Palpatine isn't the Dark Side. He uses the Dark Side to do evil things. It doesn't make the Dark Side inherently evil. Then how come every single dark side character is evil? I think it was that you didn't make the right secondary choices to unlock it. I'm assuming you're talking about the Trooper storyline? Yes. Edited January 13, 2012 by Game_Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliotic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here... I'm not trying to argue anything. I'm saying that killing someone (who is helpless) regardless of anything else is a 'dark side' act. Sometimes you kill people for good reasons, but that doesn't mean it's not 'dark'. Edited January 13, 2012 by Heliotic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookami_Nikurasu Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Then how come every single dark side character is evil? because the majority of the darks side choices is... well evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashaan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Palpatine isn't the Dark Side. He uses the Dark Side to do evil things. It doesn't make the Dark Side inherently evil. Actually, by definition of Lucas and Lucasfilm, it is. Dark side = hatred, suffering, death. However, I will admit that if you only view the Force as a tool, it cannot be inherently evil. But it's been stated many times in SW lore that the Force has a will, which means it's not just a tool like a gun. Edited January 13, 2012 by Kashaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverlongAU Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You're saying the government is evil for executing serial killers? I'm the government (trooper) and I just executed a serial killer who will certainly keep doing it. It's the same thing. Letting him go when I had the chance to stop him would mean I indirectly murdered hundreds. Did you allow him a trial in front of 12 of his peers, and give him the right to multiple appeals? Your not a judge jury and executioner, you are an employee of the republic so you have to abide by the rules and morals of the republic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Actually, by definition of Lucas and Lucasfilm, it is. Dark side = hatred, suffering, death. However, I will admit that if you only view the Force as a tool, it cannot be inherently evil. But it's been stated many times in SW lore that the Force has a will, which means it's not just a tool like a gun. I'll give you that, sure. I'd rather argue that the Force is neither good or evil, but necessary. It is--it exists. Force philosophy is always a fun nerd topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookami_Nikurasu Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You must also remember that there is a difference between the empire, and the sith (yes the sith is a part of the empire) but the empire itself is not always Dark side/evil, i have met a bunch of imps who's moral standing point is not that different of a republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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