Juggernauts as Dps at operations,flashpoints etc

[Elpantheon]

hi i have a juggernaut lvl50 rage spec i dont like the other 2 spec i like to be dps so...is there a change that juggernauts can to well as dps in flashpoints,operations etc..is there a change that a juggernaut rage tree could tank in normal-hard mode flashpoints by change in soresu form ro its neccesery to be immortal only..i am the only 50lvl in my guild so i have never check any lvl 50 flashpoints etc so i am wating my guild parteners to see whats going on but i wound like your and opinion thnx

[Sithcreep]

Jugger DPS is a joke compared to all ranged DPS and to marauder imo. The only way to go is tank imo. Thats the only thing where juggers outperform others. And if u go rage u can still tank, if u have proper HP, armor rating and damage reduction. Might not be the case if u focused on enhancing critical rating and such to increase your DPS.

 

I used to be tank and its the best thing for jugger in PVE. But it simply sucks in PVP thats why I changed to vengeance. Best thing if u want to be able to do both. Might not be sufficient for raids and hard modes though, if u dont have top notch gear.

[Rezoh]

Jugger DPS is a joke compared to all ranged DPS and to marauder imo. The only way to go is tank imo. Thats the only thing where juggers outperform others. And if u go rage u can still tank, if u have proper HP, armor rating and damage reduction. Might not be the case if u focused on enhancing critical rating and such to increase your DPS.

 

I used to be tank and its the best thing for jugger in PVE. But it simply sucks in PVP thats why I changed to vengeance. Best thing if u want to be able to do both. Might not be sufficient for raids and hard modes though, if u dont have top notch gear.

 

Afaik theres no damage meters or combat logs. So, how do you know that Jugg dps sucks compared to ranged classes and marauder? =)

[Eommer]

Afaik theres no damage meters or combat logs. So, how do you know that Jugg dps sucks compared to ranged classes and marauder? =)

 

good point. lol.

 

just one cent here, I started play at warzones this week. But so far, Im getting more kills then Marauders. Vengeance spec here lvl 37. Maybe at lvl 50 is different so idk.

[Mcfly]

I raid a rage build and do fine. In the council fight in ev I take a 78k npc and finish on par with every other dps class. You just have to be aware of when you can smash so you dont break cc's.

[MorgonKara]

Juggernauts can do good damage when built for it, especially if you have decent gear and weapon, but you won't be able to tank well without Immortal spec and tanking gear. Once you start doing hardmodes and operations you need all the tanking ability you can get in order to tank for your group. If you are Rage spec stick to damage (Vindicator). If you want to tank, spec Immortal and get tank gear (Warleader). Edited February 17, 2012 by MorgonKara

[JamieM]

Juggernauts can do good damage when built for it, especially if you have decent gear and weapon, but you won't be able to tank well without Immortal spec and tanking gear. Once you start doing hardmodes and operations you need all the tanking ability you can get in order to tank for your group. If you are Rage spec stick to damage (Vindicator). If you want to tank, spec Immortal and get tank gear (Warleader).

 

QFT - Juggs are one of the most gear dependant classes in the game. If you get good PvE gear (Columi and above) and perfect your roration/priority system you will have no trouble going toe to toe with other damage classes. The only issue is that we have to run around a lot more in encounters which interrupts our dps flow, but that has always been an issue for melee classes.

 

Bottom line for Jugg DPS: rotation > gear > spec

Edited February 17, 2012 by JamieM

[Megaflayer]

One of Bioware's stated goals is to make each class viable in each spec. If your class can tank, it is supposed to be a viable tank. If your class is a healer, it is supposed to be a viable healer. If your class is a DPS, is supposed to do viable damage. Supposedly, the difference in DPS shouldn't be more than 5%. I'm taking Bioware at their word and honestly, I think they are doing a pretty good job on that.

 

Looking at the Jugg Vengeance tree, there is a lot to like about it. 12% damage increase, 2 minor and 1 major bleed, free Smash (which is also 30% stronger with a 12 Second CD), among a few other nice abilities. And they are doing minor adjustments to maintain this.

 

That being said, I wouldn't try to tank in a DPS spec. Nor would I expect strong damage from a tank/healing spec. Especially not at 50! Maybe at the lower levels, when all classes are pretty much the same still, but once you start getting into your second and third tier of talents, I'd just start going for what your spec is supposed to be.

 

As for the people who supposedly know how much damage classes are doing, I ask how? As far as I know there is no form of Recount in the game. And using the results at the end of PVP isn't very wise as any number of factors can change the outcome of a person's damage. Constantly being attacked and killed without anyone protecting them so they spend time respawning and running to the fight. Guarding a position that isn't being attacked. Skill. Skill comes into play even in PVE, though.

[Darthmemnoc]

Like someone said in an earlier post, I too have killed the same mobs side by side, at the same time, sometimes even faster than a mara next to me. My buddy has one. Jugs CAN in fact DPS. People have a mental block to the idea. If they were not meant for DPS, why the DPS tree? Why the tiered DPS gear? Putting the options out there, but not making them viable? I do not believe it.

 

We will of course never truly know until we see meters ( I for one do not want them, but that is another thread) but from what I have seen so far, they can DPS, and well.

[Fallenlore]

Juggs can dps just fine. I'm usually one of the first to finish in the EV council fight on my Jedi Guardian (same class, different side). I also bring nice dps to boss fights and can even tank in a pinch. I would highly suggest running Veng spec vs Rage, Rage is more suited for pvp.

 

You have to get good gear though. Do that and you'll be fine.

[Morsexy]

A video of me as Rage in PvE on Soa Hard mode.

 

[KingFink]

I still say Vengeance tops Rage in PVE. I don't have combat logs to prove it, but from trying both it seems to me that Vengeance is much more consistent. Rage is more of a one trick pony. In my playstyle this makes Rage the PVP spec, and Vengeance the PVE spec.

 

Just an opinion.

 

Either one will work in Operations, on all difficulties. It really is more important to play the class correctly and get gear.

[Taybul]

I've tried both Rage and Veng in OPs and I feel Veng is a lot better overall. Aside from the damage, the rotation is a lot easier to manage. With rage, if you miss your window of opportunity to get that critted smash, you're back to doing mediocre damage.

 

My Karagga HM video as Veng:

 

Edited February 20, 2012 by Taybul

[Vid-szhite]

A video of me as Rage in PvE on Soa Hard mode.

 

 

Nice.

[Dymoon]

i am a jugg, and trust me,rage build can deal very good damage in RAID or FLASHPOINTS,u just need to figure out a nice rotation to deal with....SURGE NERF is a pain of *** for rage build jugg, but we are still good

[Pwrfailure]

Rage is perfectly viable. The only problem you will have is there are a couple of fights where Obliterate can be an issue(ex. HK in false emperor everytime you use obliterate you will get knocked back and hit for 2.5k. Also against the rankor(1st boss in karagga's palace) the obliterate will sometimes put you in front of him so you need to time it well as to not get cleaved.) All of that being said I have cleared all HM FPs in rage spec and all Hardmode bosses in Ops. Jugg Dps is fine anyone who says other wise is stoned.

[Dindrane]

I am vengeance specced PvE DD I postet 4 EV hard mode videos on youtube and I think im doing fine

 

Check it out if you are wondering about how it looks or the numbers

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1FWmpczbkc

[_Zorth_]

Afaik theres no damage meters or combat logs. So, how do you know that Jugg dps sucks compared to ranged classes and marauder? =)

 

People usually challenge each otehrs as in who can beat their Infernal Council boss first..

You pick the same HP boss, Then just DPS the crap out of them and see who does it first. In my raid group, It's the BH that always wins, He crits for 8k on his tracer's..

[Bastus]

Like someone said in an earlier post, I too have killed the same mobs side by side, at the same time, sometimes even faster than a mara next to me. My buddy has one. Jugs CAN in fact DPS. People have a mental block to the idea. If they were not meant for DPS, why the DPS tree? Why the tiered DPS gear? Putting the options out there, but not making them viable? I do not believe it.

 

We will of course never truly know until we see meters ( I for one do not want them, but that is another thread) but from what I have seen so far, they can DPS, and well.

 

I'd personally like a combat log. I'm currently a geared veng Jug, and I still end up tanking everything lol. Maybe 15% of my HM runs are with myself as a dps, and to be honest even I have started believing that being a DPS jug was pointless. People hardly ever want you for the dps role, unless they've experienced Jugs for themselves and understand our combat style.

 

I've always hated tanking, in any game, so I've been somewhat regretting starting off with a jug. I've never compared with a similarly geared Marauder, but I'm hoping that we kill ALMOST as quickly as they do, or will do so in the near future after an update. They are built for dps, so I don't expect to out damage one easily, but why have a dps tree if we can't perform to at least 80% of a standard dps class.

[EnalisNailo]

I play as one of the main damage dealers for my guild and I run a Vengence style jugg. I've had lots of hands on time with both Vengence and Rage and if raiding is going to be your thing you should probably go with Vengence. Rage is mainly built for pvp, you have great burst damage but it becomes pretty difficult at times to sustain your rage consumption. With Vengence you always have some sort of attack ready in the wings.

 

One of the biggest drawbacks of raiding with a Rage build is your stroggest attack is your AoE. At times you can be pretty limited because you do not want to break CC's so you are forced to rely on your other attacks, most of rage has pretty long cool downs like the 15sec CD on obliterate. Moves like force choke and force push which are pretty crucial in Rage dont have their immbolizing effects on bosses either.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1010MZIMRorudzGRZG00M.1

 

This is the build I've been using and it works really really well for my playstyle. I've forgone the bleed effects since their only use seems to be to prevent caps in PVP. 300 bleed damage over 6 seconds is terrible at high levels so until the bleeds get buffed you're probably better off without it.

 

My playstyle revolves around 2 moves really, Ravage and Shatter. My rotation puts Impale and Shatter up as often as I can to reset the cool down on Ravage (30%) once Ravage comes off CD pop it. Impale and Shatter also up your crit chance on Vicous throw and Force scream by 60% for several seconds with that build. You can get 9k+ total damage of the crit from an Impale, Force Scream, Vicious Throw rotation.

 

Shatter is also a very good move, it comes with a 12 second Dot but only a 9 second cool down. Sunder Assault is one of your best Rage builders so most of your targets should always have several stacks of sunder armor on so activating shatter shouldn't be a problem. It is pretty easy to keep constant damage on mobs with vengence.

 

Ontop of the amazing damage output options you get Shien also refunds 1 rage anytime you use a rage move. Effectively cutting rage costs by 1 so long as you have the intial requirement. IE Vicous slash requires 3 rage to activate but will only consume 2 rage.

 

And finally you still have the options to tank. You do a lot of damage so you can build agro pretty decently. You also have agro pulls for just being a Juggernaut, heavy armor and even a STR geared Veng Jugg should have aroun 16-18k hp. (I have 17.5). You basicly become an off-tank if you will, you can pull things off your more squishy DPS companions or get someone off your healer.

Edited February 27, 2012 by EnalisNailo

[Cassp]

Sorc/Merc > Marauder > Sniper >

 

 

 

 

 

 

somewhere around here >>>>>> assassin/jugg/op.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Cassp

[KVork]

I was tanking Immortal for 2 months, at the moment almost all gear 136 rating (columni mostly).

 

I respeced few days ago to Rage, just after completing dps gear for HMs (126-136) and started on my new path (we got second Immortal Tank in the guild).

 

First thought: Sweet J. What a punch....

Second Thought: Why am I pulling aggro?? Our Healer BH used to pull first if ever.

 

Third Thought: ok, I got to slow down, I am Crushing/obliterating/smashing them to pieces and i found that it frightnes me no more when they turn around to face me. I just S.Ward, stack and smash, and they are all gone...

 

 

So, i dont count exact damage done, but i pull harder than my Immortal pall, harder than Madness Assasin, and harder than BH healer.

So I dont know how about you guys, but I think that properly played Rage Juggernaut DPS is a beast, especialy in any encounter with group pulls/adds. And contrary to common voices, it is not easy to play, at all. And Smash isn't all there is in Rage builds.

 

Have fun with your Juggernaut.

 

And yes, I know there are better options for DPS, especialy those ranged. I just say "Rage Juggernaut is viable DPS for Hard Modes, not easy to play, but not as lacking as many think"

[Werwers]

Juggernauts are awesome dps and fun to play. Play around with your specs (i like them all) and find the build that best suits your playstyle. I have cleared both EV and KP on nightmare and can assure you the dps output is more than viable.

 

But if you want to use tank spec as well, you will need 2 sets of gear.

 

Have fun!

[LordTie]

Great posts here guys. Thanks as i have recently hooked up with a guild who has already have two viable tanks. So i been ask to go dps. Good thing i am sythweaver and can make two Rakkata pieces so look forward to trying dps.

[Elyx]

Great posts here guys. Thanks as i have recently hooked up with a guild who has already have two viable tanks. So i been ask to go dps. Good thing i am sythweaver and can make two Rakkata pieces so look forward to trying dps.

 

Gonna love it man so far its my favorite class to DPS with, bar none. Good to hear your guild is intelligent enough to bring along a real DPS class (hehehe).

 

Make us proud! For the Empire!