CulannHS Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 OR you will have guild leaders requiring logs to be submitted at the end of each raid so they can be reviewed by leader and officers. Where there is a will, there is a way (at least in guilds). Yeah...right. And this is horrifically ironic. "Submit my log? Sure..one sec while I cut and paste every 1 into a 4 throughout the log." "Okay all done..here ya go." Top DPS..as usual. (chuckle) If they require logs, people will alter the hell out of them in order to present what they want that guild leader to see. And if the guild leader is gullible enough to take them despite this fact, then they deserve whatever headaches and frustration may come their way. "Guyz guyz! Why can we not kill this boss? Everyone's DPS is over 9000!!1!!1" Just the thoughts of this causes me to laugh myself to tears repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 You can change the sport or the game to anything you'd like, and the analogy still holds. You can't play a team based game without everyone on the team knowing what you're doing. Dirk nowitzki does not need to read the paper to figure out what Jason terry did in the game last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzan-E Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Come to think of it.. people use dps to measure if someone is a good or bad player. But dps is just one of the many things that define a good player. I personally rather have someone with decent enough dps and great awareness of what's going on in the fight, than a killer dps blindly focussing on the boss. Amen. If you're pulling unwanted adds, neglecting key interrupts, wandering unnecessarily out of the healer's range, or in general being a Leeroy - then your flawless rotation doesn't interest me; you're a pain, and I'd like you to leave. I group with people who have a solid understanding of their class - but also the ability to keep track of what's happening around them, and to respond fluidly to unexpected situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushia Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 <snip> Originally Posted by me. The more stuff to help me avoid blame I shouldn't be getting the better. Stop pretending this is not here anti-parser meter people. Let's see some counterpointing. Or, just admit that you don't have an argument. Requoting your post over and over again, does not really help your case. Just saying.. I understand what you mean. You want a real time combat log parser so if someone blames you for something, you can turn the tables and blame them instead. I think that is exactly the reason some people in this thread are against such a tool. A personal combat log parser is something outside this scope, and since it cannot be used to play the blame game, it is much less controversial. I am all for it if BW would implement is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzan-E Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Some people want to fill their social skill void with a dps meter. This is maybe the funniest thing I've read on these boards in quite a while. Except for how it sometimes seems true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seksi Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 GOOD. The last thing we need is WoW elitists kicking you from a group because you are doing .5 dps less than you should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcova Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Being abusive verbally over the internet also does not make your point more valid. It just show's a taste of what's to come if you get your little crutch to lean on. For now I am basking in the glory that you no have it nor will it come in the near future. Words have meanings... I don't think you know what verbal means. Nor crutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillen Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I'm not even a DPSers. I Heal and i've pretty much been in here fighting for a meter. As a healer I am a blame target with or without a Parser. A Parser/ Meter would lessen the chances of people automatically assuming" i'm not doing my job" after multiple wipes now that you can better see: Who died standing in what. Who continued to DPS when they should have been interupting. Who's not Dispelling that mark of doom. Who's AFK for burrito and not attacking. This thing is just as important for lessening the amount of blame for tanks and healers, as it is for monitoring Damage output. So I will keep fighting for it. People think that they get blamed too much and removed from groups? Try healing for a while. The level of Blame is on a whole different level lol Originally Posted by me. The more stuff to help me avoid blame I shouldn't be getting the better. Stop pretending this is not here anti-parser meter people. Let's see some counterpointing. Or, just admit that you don't have an argument. Great post. The only time you get blamed with meters is if you actually deserve to be blamed. Without meters you can get blamed arbitrarily and you can't even defend yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidator Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Many guilds who try progress hardmode/nightmare operation mods have problems... they have problems because they must carry bad players and can do nothing with their pathetic excuses. Because here and there are some bugs and its best excuse for failing most of them dont get replace... with logs everything can be more clear. Just copy/paste death log and see who was failing. If there is boss with enrage timer and you wipe on it then just copy/paste damage done (dps) and replace worst damage dealer etc. It has logic that bad players dont want logs. Or they want "personal" log where they can lie about their performance. Edited January 14, 2012 by Liquidator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Great post. The only time you get blamed with meters is if you actually deserve to be blamed. Without meters you can get blamed arbitrarily and you can't even defend yourself. Yeah right. Most people who "blame" people because of meters are idiots and don't even know what they are talking about so that is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Yeah. People who think everyone just lies are either liars themselves or lacking basic social tools. It is a teamwork environment where people are supposed to work together. Some people want to fill their social skill void with a dps meter. No, just older and more experienced than you. People lie, all the time... especially in a game where they have a certain amount of anonymity. Take a look at how people act on these forums. You think I would trust them to tell me that they are doing 500dps when everybody else is doing 2K? People in this game cheat, they AFK in warzones, they ninja gear for their companions and they can be general ******s to those around them.... and you think they would admit to being a failure at whatever role they are supposed to be performing in an instance...? Edited January 14, 2012 by Rasstavad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushia Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Great post. The only time you get blamed with meters is if you actually deserve to be blamed. Without meters you can get blamed arbitrarily and you can't even defend yourself. I've seen many times that people got blamed solely based on a dps number on the meters, when in fact someone else was messing up. Like the lowest dps was the one doing all the interrupts. Or when the lowest dps was in fact lowest because the special boss stun ability hit him more times than it hit others. And YES, it shows in the meters if you know where to look for it, but before you get a chance to explain that to the self-proclaimed elite pro players, you've already been kicked out of the pug. For raid environments, I can definately see the benefit of a combat log parser. But for pugs it does more damage than good in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidator Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Really people against logs/meters do you use brain? Or what logic do you use... if you are exceptional player who dont do mistakes, who can do his job, who can do a lot of dps and other things do you think such players will be against logs/meters? They can show and prove their good performance so do you really think logs or meters are problem for them? In other hand you have bad players.. yea they are raiding, sometimes dying, using some excuses etc. sometimes they click on some spells etc. Do you really think such players want logs and show their "performance"? So stop your agenda against meters/logs and how it will ruin game.. only what you show is that you are in category of bad players who have problem with playing your character. Edited January 14, 2012 by Liquidator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kserberus Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) I've seen many times that people got blamed solely based on a dps number on the meters, when in fact someone else was messing up. Like the lowest dps was the one doing all the interrupts. When someone can´t do DPS because he is interrupting then he is bad. It´s not like you jump from 30k DPS to 10K DPS because you´ve got to interrupt. I play rogue for myself and everytime i see this statement i´ve got to laugh. To the second thing... i play for 6 1/2 years and have never seen someone kicked out of a group because he got hit by a boss ability that you cant dodge. However, if the ability is dodgeable and you fail all the time then **** out of my group Edited January 14, 2012 by Kserberus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I've seen many times that people got blamed solely based on a dps number on the meters, when in fact someone else was messing up. Like the lowest dps was the one doing all the interrupts. Or when the lowest dps was in fact lowest because the special boss stun ability hit him more times than it hit others. And YES, it shows in the meters if you know where to look for it, but before you get a chance to explain that to the self-proclaimed elite pro players, you've already been kicked out of the pug. For raid environments, I can definately see the benefit of a combat log parser. But for pugs it does more damage than good in my experience. Even in pugs... I forgot which 5 man it was, but a group of us were trying to get an achievement and the only way to accomplish it was if two people would interrupt the boss before he cast a heal (it was a dps race). We failed - and when I asked the second person if he interrupted he claimed he did.. recount said otherwise. When we speak of "DPS" meters, we generally mean recount - which tracks a multitude of events. You can tell who died because they "stood in the fire" who wasn't interrupting, who didn't change targets to the adds... etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No, just older and more experienced than you. People lie, all the time... especially in a game where they have a certain amount of anonymity. Take a look at how people act on these forums. You think I would trust them to tell me that they are doing 500dps when everybody else is doing 2K? People in this game cheat, they AFK in warzones, they ninja gear for their companions and they can be general ******s to those around them.... and you think they would admit to being a failure at whatever role they are supposed to be performing in an instance...? If you have such an untrusting nature, why are you playing an online game at all? 'People lie, all the time...' This includes you? Or is it everyone else but you? Do you have any facts or figures for us to look at to prove such a sweeping statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidator Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you have such an untrusting nature, why are you playing an online game at all? 'People lie, all the time...' This includes you? Or is it everyone else but you? Do you have any facts or figures for us to look at to prove such a sweeping statement? Hello are you new on internet and MMO? Seems so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) If you have such an untrusting nature, why are you playing an online game at all? 'People lie, all the time...' This includes you? Or is it everyone else but you? Do you have any facts or figures for us to look at to prove such a sweeping statement? Because I'm not an idiot. I don't trust people I don't know... however, I do play this game with people I *do* know and that have earned my trust. You? Not a chance in hell I would trust you with anything... I don't know you. If you arbitrarily extend "trust" to those whom you have no experience with - all the power to you. Stay in your naive little world where everything is fluffy bunnies and flowers. I however, know better. Edited January 14, 2012 by Rasstavad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Hello are you new on internet and MMO? Seems so.... In answer to your question; It is highly probable I was online before you were even born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 In answer to your question; It is highly probable I was online before you were even born. It's funny that you throw around the word "trust" but you don't "trust" that people will use group damage meters constructively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Because I'm not an idiot. I don't trust people I don't know... however, I do play this game with people I *do* know and that have earned my trust. Then you have no need for meters at all. You? Not a chance in hell I would trust you with anything... I don't know you. If you arbitrarily extend "trust" to those whom you have no experience with - all the power to you. That's perfectly acceptable. I don't rust you with meters either. Stay in your naive little world where everything is fluffy bunnies and flowers. I however, know better. That statement is purely conjecture on your part and there weightless and irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monjiay Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 There is absolutely ZERO chance they will put in combat logs until they work on the ability delay. If people could see their combat logs the howling would be deafening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbodzioch Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 fine with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 It's funny that you throw around the word "trust" but you don't "trust" that people will use group damage meters constructively. I don't see why you would find it funny, but I don't know your mental health situation so I won't comment. I don't trust people to use these meters constructively because I have seen more bad use of them than good. And, I think people needing to use them need to learn to play better. These meters become an addiction to which players rely on and then base every decision based on their output, giving no merit to other unforeseen events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I don't see why you would find it funny, but I don't know your mental health situation so I won't comment. I don't trust people to use these meters constructively because I have seen more bad use of them than good. And, I think people needing to use them need to learn to play better. These meters become an addiction to which players rely on and then base every decision based on their output, giving no merit to other unforeseen events. i·ro·ny 1 [ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-] Show IPA noun, plural -nies. 1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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