Nerfs I would take

[thekrazo]

What's up, you overpowered noobs? How are you enjoying pwning everyone in a single knockdown in warzones with your faceroll two button mashing?

 

Just kidding. I'm a scoundrel too. I really love the flexibility of the class. Since all the baddies are screaming for nerfs and I am willing to bet Bioware will listen to their skill-less playerbase, I have some suggestions.

 

These are the "nerfs" that would make the people who are freaked out by big crits and "stunlock" happy but not really hurt good scoundrels. I thought I'd come by and get feedback from people who actually understand the class.

 

1) Give shoot first and back blast a shared 9s cooldown.

 

You should probably try to maximize flechette round and not back blast right after shoot first anyway. So I don't think this is a huge nerf really. People are concerned about our 6 second burst and that definitely includes a back blast during the knockdown from shoot first. But we can do a lot more damage over 15 seconds by maximizing flechette round dot uptime. When you're not pwning noobs, this won't have much effect but will help lower initial burst while spreading out damage.

 

2) Remove the upper hand proc from shoot first and add it to back blast

 

Again, out of stealth dps goes up but initial burst goes down. In a way, this is a buff disguised as a nerf. I spend more time out of stealth killing people than in and this would help that damage but stop us from having two upper hands 3s into the knockdown. When fighting anyone who won't die in 6-8 seconds, you're better off playing the whole thing differently anyway, so again, what I do vs. geared opponents wouldn't change much from this.

 

3) Change the knockdown from shoot first in scrapper tree into a 2 second stun with a 5 second root

 

Another buff disguised as a nerf. I hate the knockdown. The only reason I don't spec out of it is because of the control it gives me when protecting a teammate.

 

The reason it sucks is that it immediately gives the opponent a full resolve bar.

 

The other reason it sucks is that people immediately run off afterwards. So I have to use a global during the knockdown on tendon blast.

 

This way, it adds 400 resolve so I can follow up with dirty kick. Or I can wait 5 seconds and dirty kick and they still won't have full resolve so I can flash grenade when they come out of that. And the root means I don't have to use tendon blast so early. Also it opens up grabbing some range to pugnacity and vital shot and then dip back in. A lot of the way scoundrel plays I feel like I have to be at 4m when I should spend a decent amount of time at 10m. I think this would help it.

 

And the other thing I hate about the knockdown is that it moves people about 2m which never really helps but sometimes it knocks someone off a ledge in huttball or something. I have to be behind them so I can't really choose which direction to knock them. Kill it. It sucks.

 

4) Reduce the scaling factor of Shoot First but increase the base damage

 

It really does scale too well with gear and buffs. Let's make it hit hard but not get so ridiculous. I can't deny that 10k with massive buffs is too much. But I rarely crit for more than 5k even with the red buff, relic and surge stacking. So, the problem is the scaling, not the damage itself. Ideally with bad gear, it would crit for more but with buffs and battlemaster it would crit for a lot less.

 

5) Fix dot critting

 

When dots crit, they crit on every tick. When they don't crit, they never crit. At least, that's true of flechette round and I think all dots. This hurts us more than it helps but it contributes to the OP burst claims. If flechette round calculated crit on each tick, we wouldn't wreck so much when shoot first crits but be so screwed when it doesn't. This will happen anyway. It's just a bug fix imo. Every MMO realizes this is a bad idea.

 

6) Give us a 10s knockback immunity on a 60s cooldown

 

This is to balance out some of the "nerfs" above and assist our out of stealth mobility given that we won't be doing so much burst. Using this before someone knocks back adds some extra skill, helps some of the out of stealth mobility issues and would make huttball 100x less frustrating.

 

Thoughts?

[powerconverter]

I will not concede to any nerfs!

[gazerous]

Perfect suggestion, the only thing that needs to be added is the dodge talent lowered to the first tier in the sawbones tree and give it a 50% increase to run speed for each point, then scoudnrels would be fixed, and their "overpowered" burst tamed.

[OniGanon]

Remove the knockdown talent and replace with damage increase to backblast or something. Edited January 12, 2012 by OniGanon

[thekrazo]

Perfect suggestion, the only thing that needs to be added is the dodge talent lowered to the first tier in the sawbones tree and give it a 50% increase to run speed for each point, then scoudnrels would be fixed, and their "overpowered" burst tamed.

 

So, basically dodge becomes force sprint. I'd love it personally but I could see it sort of conflicting with one of the most core abilities of assassins/shadows.

 

Overall, I think these would make a lot of sense for full scrappers. One thing I haven't considered is how they would affect healer hybrids and dirty fighting scoundrels.

[astyler]

Just increase the energy cost of shoot first to 40, maybe put an energy cost onto vanish as 40 as well. Problem solved.

[Spacechrist]

I'm against lowering the burst functionality of this class. Period. From the Scrapper perspective we are not sustained dps, we are not healers we are not defensive fighters. The best description for what what we will do to you is the way Bioware explains the class. We sneak in, knock the enemy for a loop , then escape. We don't hang around or play fair.

Don't like getting burst down, then play smart. Your playing with a team.... stay with the team. We are like predators, the lone wolf that circles the herd looking to peel off a weak stray, don't let it be you.

 

Howl !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DarthElyro]

I'm against lowering the burst functionality of this class. Period. From the Scrapper perspective we are not sustained dps, we are not healers we are not defensive fighters. The best description for what what we will do to you is the way Bioware explains the class. We sneak in, knock the enemy for a loop , then escape. We don't hang around or play fair.

Don't like getting burst down, then play smart. Your playing with a team.... stay with the team. We are like predators, the lone wolf that circles the herd looking to peel off a weak stray, don't let it be you.

 

Howl !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

/thread

 

This is the reason i play scoundrel, i want to be the lonewolf killing off strayers with my dirty tricks and vanishing off laughing my evil "you just got served"-laugh. I want to be the scount that tells my team that the enemy is incoming from that direction and are X many.

 

Vive la Stuns!

[Kutsus]

I think overall these changes would make me even more of a monster, but it might make people happy when they aren't dying in 1.5 seconds.

[muter]

No truly skilled pvper would take any pride in playing the scoundrel/Operative.

You are literally a lvl 19 bracket rogue in >>>WORLD OF WARCRAFT<<<

And its not a matter of if thay nerf you but when. so quit.

[t_rall]

I'm against lowering the burst functionality of this class. Period. From the Scrapper perspective we are not sustained dps, we are not healers we are not defensive fighters.

 

Actually, we are sustained DPS. The only thing that gives us burst damage is Shoot First followed by Back Blast. Outside of that we don't have burst. We do really good sustained damage, actually.

 

Limiting our burst would be awesome. I'm all for it, if it means we get greater mobility and survivability. After that first hit, we're just another melee fighter. At that point there's no reason we should be scaled back compared to other melee classes. Having our mobility and survivability lessened because of 6s of fame is a tad ridiculous.

[chaoswarmech]

2&3 are HUGE buffs. How the hell can you even consider those a nerf? I think the easy change would be to split the stun and the ambush abilities. Make us choose whether to ambush or cheapshot. Not be able to do both at the same time.

[Azzimmov]

I dunno, I'm an average player, a bad pvp'er . How would nerfs of any kind impact my PVE experience . It's allready a challenge at level 38 as a scoundrel . I don't think that the absolute best players in a class should be forming your opinion of the class as a whole . Skilled players will own you , no matter what class they're playing.

[thekrazo]

I think overall these changes would make me even more of a monster, but it might make people happy when they aren't dying in 1.5 seconds.

 

Exactly! I don't think we're more powerful as a class than a geared marauder/sentinel or commando/mercenary or sage/sorceror or even shadow/assassin when you factor out our initial burst.

 

I think these changes would make me more powerful too. I say they're not really nerfs in the post. But they would stop people crying about our insane burst and they would add a skill factor so that bad players wouldn't seem good despite having no idea what to do when their opponent stands up.

 

2&3 are HUGE buffs. How the hell can you even consider those a nerf? I think the easy change would be to split the stun and the ambush abilities. Make us choose whether to ambush or cheapshot. Not be able to do both at the same time.

 

2 would have a really big impact on pve dps. If we had combat logs, we could see if scoundrels are high in out of stealth dps. I don't think they are but I don't know. I think it would be a great buff to counter reduced burst from 1 and 4. All of these should be taken together or it wouldn't be balanced.

 

3 is also a big buff but it's a buff for good players who understand resolve. This is always my game design philosophy personally. Set up the abilities so good players dominate and bad players complain they're underpowered.

 

I'm playing sawbones right now and a shoot first with no effect on the opponent is sort of meh. It should do something to help with control in that first global. But I would prefer more options for openers so maybe you're right and just adding a stun from stealth to that tier of scrapper is the best path.

[thekrazo]

I dunno, I'm an average player, a bad pvp'er . How would nerfs of any kind impact my PVE experience . It's allready a challenge at level 38 as a scoundrel . I don't think that the absolute best players in a class should be forming your opinion of the class as a whole . Skilled players will own you , no matter what class they're playing.

 

I don't think it would hurt your pve experience. Overall, these would improve pve.

 

Personally, I think if you're having trouble in pve and levelling as scrapper, you should make sure you're using a tank companion and his gear is up to date. Corso makes it easiest, I hear, though I used Bowdaar for style. The thing is that if you can't get behind a mob to back blast, you're always going to have trouble as scrapper.

[JonnySiniwali]

I dunno, I'm an average player, a bad pvp'er . How would nerfs of any kind impact my PVE experience . It's allready a challenge at level 38 as a scoundrel . I don't think that the absolute best players in a class should be forming your opinion of the class as a whole . Skilled players will own you , no matter what class they're playing.

 

Yeah, the problem is when I die 4 times in a minute to the same scrapper/IA. I can burn my CC breaker once, but then what? I just take the dirt nap for the next couple minutes? Scrappers are going to get nerfed. You are delusional if you think otherwise. It isn't fun to be killed inside a CC timer.

 

I am not crying nerf. I am just telling you how it is going to play out based on my experience with mmo pvp. The nerfs are coming, so enjoy it while it lasts, because balanced pvp DOES NOT INCLUDE DIEING INSIDE OF ONE CC. If experience tells me anything, it is that you will probably be way over nerfed.

 

As someone already said earlier, if you are thrashing people with the scrapper, it isn't skill.

[Banjal]

Nerf stacking,class fixed.

[Shoogli]

... the problem is when I die 4 times in a minute to the same scrapper/IA....

 

[...]

 

... balanced pvp DOES NOT INCLUDE DIEING INSIDE OF ONE CC....

 

You can't die inside of one CC from a scrapper or an IA, *unless* you're way outlevelled (in the case of world pvp), extremely outgeared, or a combination of both. That is just *impossible*. And 4 times a minute ? You found a way to exploit the rez zone barrier to come back to the game faster ?

 

The way I see it : you've been mauled by a player (that specific 'same' ?) in full (or close to) battlemaster gear while you were in greens or blues...

 

This is always what happens in PVP forums : people come cry and whine for nerfs and of course always 'forget' to realize how badly they're geared...

 

You'd have died as fast to any other dps class with the same gear difference anyway, it just seems more brutal since it happens when you're on the ground.

[voidsurvivor]

Cybertech grenades, especially when stacked with additional power-ups and other temporary buffs, were creating combat damage burst potential higher than we were comfortable with and caused player versus player engagements in the game to resolve faster than intended. In fact we have additional changes to classes and consumables currently in internal testing to deal with faster than anticipated kill times in player versus player combat in a future patch.

The only classes that can burst down players ridiculously fast are scoundrels, (well played) shadows, and mercs. The next few patches will be interesting.

 

I don't mind if the class becomes harder to play, as long as it causes all the new rerolls "I want to be OP!!!" to go back to playing their tracer missile spamming mains.

[MrContact]

Before fixing any classes in pvp they should look at this problem imo: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

[JonnySiniwali]

You can't die inside of one CC from a scrapper or an IA, *unless* you're way outlevelled (in the case of world pvp), extremely outgeared, or a combination of both. That is just *impossible*. And 4 times a minute ? You found a way to exploit the rez zone barrier to come back to the game faster ?

 

The way I see it : you've been mauled by a player (that specific 'same' ?) in full (or close to) battlemaster gear while you were in greens or blues...

 

This is always what happens in PVP forums : people come cry and whine for nerfs and of course always 'forget' to realize how badly they're geared...

 

You'd have died as fast to any other dps class with the same gear difference anyway, it just seems more brutal since it happens when you're on the ground.

 

I have NEVER been killed inside of a 5 seconds by any other class. Just IA. And I am not crying over it. I have the option to spec scrapper any time I want. I am just telling you how it is going to play out. No game that intends to last will allow for players to be killed without any chance of fighting back, and that is exactly what is happening. I last longer with 4 sorc's blasting me with lightning. And I am warning you, when the nerfs come, they will likely be overblown and you are likely to suck for months to come. This is the lifecycle of burst damage classes.