Angedechu Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) If you notice carefully, there is simply no games that can handle a large amount of high detailed characters. Period. Not on PC, not on X-360, not on PS3. (Well, maybe Rage from ID software) I think I read once that the best engines on the market can handle 10-12 3-D high definition characters top. This is why even top of the lines machines crawl into rendering current-gen MMO social hubs at peak hours The only way around it is either to use a less intensive graphic engine (hint : WoW, or simply switching to low definition on Fleet), or utterly convert social hubs in pure and simple chat rooms. Edited January 12, 2012 by Angedechu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFourPO Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It is not a question of possible v. impossible. It is a matter of degree. Currently, I can be in a crowd of 20-30 in Champions Online, Age of Conan, or Fallen Earth, which have comparable graphics with much higher FPS. I have been in groups of 12 in APB, which has much higher textures, which higher FPS. I've been in crowds of near 100players in Champions Online with little drop in FPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Yes, that's a given Still, a capital always put a MMO on it's knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overfloater Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I think I read once that the best engines on the market can handle 10-12 3-D high definition characters top. This is why even top of the lines machines crawl into rendering current-gen MMO social hubs at peak hours The problem is that you get the same lag even when it isn't rendering a single character model. Try standing in the fleet at peak hours, then scroll in to first-person view, look down and stare at the floor so that you can see nothing except the floor texture... and tell me if your framerate improves substantially. I'll save you the trouble: it doesn't. The problem isn't as superficial as simply the speed of rendering the current scene. I'd guess there's an issue somewhere with the way in which texture and model data is being cached. Yes, the engine has to preload a bunch of stuff before it's actually rendered, based on who or what is in the vicinity, so that it's not desperately trying to play catchup and load from disk when you spin around and look at something new. And yes, that can have a substantial resource load when there's a ton of people around. But the point is that many games seem to achieve that background management and caching without affecting framerate to the same extent when the current scene is relatively simple. I usually choose to play a healer in MMOs. This means I'm very, very familiar with finding a cozy corner and staring at the floor during raids, in order to minimize unnecessary framerate drops. So I'm also pretty familiar with how well different games perform in exactly this scenario: when the currently-rendered scene (staring at the floor) is ultra-simple despite there being a ton of people, objects, and activity in the vicinity. Pretty sure any other raid healer is similarly familiar with these situations. And SWTOR seems to handle the situation particularly badly. I'm not saying it's completely unplayable -- it's not a complete slideshow -- just that a 70%+ drop in FPS (from 60+ fps under regular load, down to 20fps and below staring at the floor in the fleet) is unusually poor in comparison to other games, and seems to indicate poor engine optimization somewhere. Edited January 12, 2012 by overfloater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruzum Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) /agree OP It shouldn't be impossible. The main issue here is not having the option to use low detail characters on my client. I really don't care how detailed and nice looking are the models when I'm playing at 10 FPS. It's a game, not some Pixar demo. Oh! and it's a MMO - you should have a graphics engine able to render 70-80 character models at at least 30FPS. In my opinion it was just a poor trade-off decision: artwork VS playability. Some people would like the nice looking graphics, some other people would like to play the game: the later should be the target 'cause those are the gamers. And you can't really get both: high definition characters AND playability. That's why the WoW characters are still low level of detail after 8 years and I'm pretty sure they can employ some amazing graphics programmers and artists. However - a playable game comes first and for good reasons. Edited January 12, 2012 by Gruzum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dionaea Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Been playing TERA online, on the Korean server. In an area with around 250 players, no lag whatsoever, running at 60fps on my high end PC. With this game in an area with 150 people, 25-40fps. Also, the character detail in TERA makes me depressed when i go back to playing this game, it truly is in a league of its own. The main issue is the Hero engine, it really is horrible in all possible ways. Loving the game though, just wish 100+ people areas wouldn't lag so much, it isn't acceptable in a MMORPG released this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dionaea Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 /agree OP And you can't really get both: high definition characters AND playability. That's why the WoW characters are still low level of detail after 8 years and I'm pretty sure they can employ some amazing graphics programmers and artists. However - a playable game comes first and for good reasons. Oh come on, i'll say it again, TERA. Speaking on technical and gameplay terms, that game is incredible, having looks as good as most single-player games. This is 2012, i don't care if Blizzard can't do it in an MMORPG, it's a fact that good gameplay/MMORPG/great graphics CAN be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GthcRvn Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I havent seen any noticeable drop in FPS anywhere in the game. Perhaps this is hardware related on the users end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradewindNQ Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I havent seen any noticeable drop in FPS anywhere in the game. Perhaps this is hardware related on the users end? Blasphemy, everyone's computer is perfect it's always someone else's fault. /lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanJJ Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Been playing TERA online, on the Korean server. In an area with around 250 players, no lag whatsoever, running at 60fps on my high end PC. With this game in an area with 150 people, 25-40fps. Also, the character detail in TERA makes me depressed when i go back to playing this game, it truly is in a league of its own. The main issue is the Hero engine, it really is horrible in all possible ways. Loving the game though, just wish 100+ people areas wouldn't lag so much, it isn't acceptable in a MMORPG released this day and age. with all the programmers that go to MMORPG school these days, i agree. hell i went to MMORPG school and just got done designing a perfect bug free MMO all by myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godsfear Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 If you notice carefully, there is simply no games that can handle a large amount of high detailed characters. Period. Not on PC, not on X-360, not on PS3. (Well, maybe Rage from ID software) I think I read once that the best engines on the market can handle 10-12 3-D high definition characters top. This is why even top of the lines machines crawl into rendering current-gen MMO social hubs at peak hours The only way around it is either to use a less intensive graphic engine (hint : WoW, or simply switching to low definition on Fleet), or utterly convert social hubs in pure and simple chat rooms. I never once had city lag in RIFT. In fact I never once had lag in RIFT. Rift was launched as polished as most mmo's are after a year. Just saying you don't seem to know what you're talking about. Personally this is the first mmo I've ever had any performance issues with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 No...I was saying that cities in MMO are always a problem. This said, it's true that TOR engine handle this badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaick Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I get 70 FPS on average on fleet or warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrmexaw Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I get 70 FPS on average on fleet or warzones. and you have a computer that could handle 150 fps if the engine was in any way coded correctly. Most people are not saying they can't handle it they just can't see to understand why they can run game who require stronger hardware better than swtor is with the current state of the game. If you can get 70 fps in pvp i am pretty sure you can crank battlefield 3 all the way with a constant 100fps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakronist Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 and you have a computer that could handle 150 fps if the engine was in any way coded correctly. Most people are not saying they can't handle it they just can't see to understand why they can run game who require stronger hardware better than swtor is with the current state of the game. If you can get 70 fps in pvp i am pretty sure you can crank battlefield 3 all the way with a constant 100fps... Because anything 60+ matters, at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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