Denying Jedi Knight Sentinels are broken Issue #1

[Mavick]

U Thing is. it only does around what. 30% percent of the mainhand lightsaber AFTER you put 3 skill points in Duel Weild Master at.

 

 

Ummmm.....no. It does 30% increase to what it already does....

 

Reading tooltips R hard.

[Mavick]

Because we tried to explain this to Zoeller and others during the Beta and pre-game. They didn't listen to us.

 

 

This is absolutely comical to me, as I have an equally skilled player in my guild who's playing Guardian who's about to hang up his hat on the class due to the fact that I'm actually more surivivable then he is and can dish out almost twice as much damage.

 

Guardians/Juggernauts have it so much harder then us in terms of survivability unless they go full out defensive spec and then even marginally so due to the workings of armor and practically any mitigation barring percentage based. They are also literally forced into Focus spec to do anything worthwhile in terms of damage, otherwise they're just a cc bot.

 

This is just yet another thread of baseless gripes and whines without A) either having the skill to play the class or B) at least being at the level and having competent people around you to support the class you're playing.

 

You're not going to roll a stealthless (meaning, out of combat, pick your fight stealth) class and just solo dominate everyone you play. It hasn't been that way in any worthwhile game to date, and never will be. And if you're complaining about our damage, you're just bad, period. Walsh, as usual, gets points for the latter.

[Csdabest]

Ummmm.....no. It does 30% increase to what it already does....

 

Reading tooltips R hard.

 

Yeah and on average its around 30% of what the main hand does. It increases by 36% n0t add another 36%. Doing calculation at the 5th grade lvl is impossible. So if we didnt spec those skill points into our offhand lightsaber would do about around 20% percent of the mainhand. Those 3 skill points really only add another 16 percent if you calculate the numbers. Which once again. It garbage. It seems like some people seem to understand what Im trying to say. I know i poorly constructed the OP but hey Im sick. But take the time to read what I say it will actually make sense. I know it will be impossible to ever 100% balance things. But this is an issue of common sense and going in looking at the numbers and the ability to filter out damage.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Csdabest

[Csdabest]

This is absolutely comical to me, as I have an equally skilled player in my guild who's playing Guardian who's about to hang up his hat on the class due to the fact that I'm actually more surivivable then he is and can dish out almost twice as much damage.

 

Guardians/Juggernauts have it so much harder then us in terms of survivability unless they go full out defensive spec and then even marginally so due to the workings of armor and practically any mitigation barring percentage based. They are also literally forced into Focus spec to do anything worthwhile in terms of damage, otherwise they're just a cc bot.

 

This is just yet another thread of baseless gripes and whines without A) either having the skill to play the class or B) at least being at the level and having competent people around you to support the class you're playing.

 

You're not going to roll a stealthless (meaning, out of combat, pick your fight stealth) class and just solo dominate everyone you play. It hasn't been that way in any worthwhile game to date, and never will be. And if you're complaining about our damage, you're just bad, period. Walsh, as usual, gets points for the latter.

 

I have seen takes come out pretty high in warzones and tare things up. Expecially against Inquis.Cuz they are able to survive through the force power they have while being able to do some pretty good damage. Yes their survivibility can get tweaked abit. Devs realized this but they said the damage they do was as expected. If a tank that can DPS pretty good who has heavy armor, high health, and generators that ca further absorb damage do just as much damage output as a sentinel who uses medium armor and has lower health and nothing to absorb damage but some quick CD's. WHo is gong to win this fight a majority of the time. Of Course the Guardian because their same damage output has less defensive mechanics to filter through.

[Mavick]

Yeah and on average its around 30% of what the main hand does. It increases by 36% n0t add another 36%. Doing calculation at the 5th grade lvl is impossible. So if we didnt spec those skill points into our offhand lightsaber would do about around 20% percent of the mainhand. Those 3 skill points really only add another 16 percent if you calculate the numbers. Which once again. It garbage. It seems like some people seem to understand what Im trying to say. I know i poorly constructed the OP but hey Im sick. But take the time to read what I say it will actually make sense. I know it will be impossible to ever 100% balance things. But this is an issue of common sense and going in looking at the numbers and the ability to filter out damage.

 

Depends on what numbers you're calculating, which you're obviously low-balling. Average is subjective, as with the talent my offhand does more then "30%" of my mainhand. And the talent doesn't add 16%, it adds what it says it does, to offhand.

[Mavick]

I have seen takes come out pretty high in warzones and tare things up. Expecially against Inquis.Cuz they are able to survive through the force power they have while being able to do some pretty good damage. Yes their survivibility can get tweaked abit. Devs realized this but they said the damage they do was as expected. If a tank that can DPS pretty good who has heavy armor, high health, and generators that ca further absorb damage do just as much damage output as a sentinel who uses medium armor and has lower health and nothing to absorb damage but some quick CD's. WHo is gong to win this fight a majority of the time. Of Course the Guardian because their same damage output has less defensive mechanics to filter through.

 

 

They can come out pretty high damage if they're focus spec and supported by a healer, I never said they couldn't. What I said was that they're literally forced into that spec to do that much damage because their other trees are garbage, in far worse states then ours.

[Csdabest]

Depends on what numbers you're calculating, which you're obviously low-balling. Average is subjective, as with the talent my offhand does more then "30%" of my mainhand. And the talent doesn't add 16%, it adds what it says it does, to offhand.

 

On average. Compared to other sents. Their mainhand will do around 500(pri) Thats numbers ranging from like 450-550. Putting it on average here. Not doing the highest not doing the lowest. While the Damage of the offhand will do around 150(Sec) Thats after the 3 skill points have been put into Duel weild mastery. Refuse calculation now. 36 percent of 150 is about 54. Subtract 54 from 150. which is 96. 96 goes into 500 about 5 times. Equalling out to around 19-20% of the Mainhand damage.

 

On this damage scale.

 

500(Pri)

150(Sec) 30% of 500 w/ 36% increase

96(Sec) 20% of 500 w/o 36% increase from duel weild mastery

[SharkSurfr]

I've broken 300k damage with all 3 specs, but seriously combat spec is **** and good for nothing. watchman for pve, focus for pvp. both watchman/focus I've topped 400k damage WITHOUT a premade team.

[Mavick]

And just where in the hell do you get 500 as the average damage for a Sentinel mainhand, since I haven't seen that since I was like level 40 or something? No wonder your math makes no damn sense.

 

Hell my offhand is 136 top end with the champion offhand with no talents. What are you looking at as average? Freakin greens at 50?

Edited January 13, 2012 by Mavick

[Csdabest]

And just where in the hell do you get 500 as the average damage for a Sentinel mainhand, since I haven't seen that since I was like level 40 or something? No wonder your math makes no damn sense.

 

Hell my offhand is 136 top end with the champion offhand with no talents. What are you looking at as average? Freakin greens at 50?

 

What part of THESE NUMBERS ARE BASED ON AVERAGE. From a number of sentinels. The gear is NOT lopsided. Im speaking of having a lvl 50 purple purple lightsaber as your offhand w/ a level 30 Lightsaber green as your main hand.

 

Im speaking from a POV of the equipment is equal as in a lvl 47 Orange light saber for both main hand and offhand. Where actualy scaling can be judged and not lobsided with different level gear from purple equipment. Where you can get an actual consistent judgement on the calculations

 

 

We can go with purple all the way. For main hand and off hand at the level. Both sabers with similiar stats. Guess what. Its not going to change. The margin is still there and the offhand lightsbaer wiil still do roughly 30% of what the Mainhand does. Unless you found some offhand lightsaber equip that increases the percent of what the offhand does compared to the mainhand. Your looking way to hard at the numbers and not the percentage difference.

 

30% of 1000 is what. 300

30% of 500 is what. 150

30% of 100 is what. 30

 

No matter what your gear you have as long as its not lopsided horribly. Your offhand still does roughly 30% dmg of your main hand after the 3 skill points. Thats how it is on any and every level. So saying i havent seen numbers like that since lvl 40 is pointless in this debate as your coming from a bias point of you and neglecting the ingrained calculations of the game because you seem to think that lvl 40 damage has something to do with manipulating the calculations it doesnt. Tomorrow I will get my brain spankin new lvl 50 rare epic edition lightsabers for my off and main hand. All stats even out to a nice increase. My primary damage is like 2000 but yet my off hand is still doing 600 damage. Why is that. This gap seems familiar. Oh it doing roughly 30% damage of my offhand. (sarcasm) But yes. I can have a milion calculation for every stat. it almost impropable to give exact calcuations because you dont consistently do 500 pri damage. Its put in a range and you have to give calculations for every combination. Which i wont do. So guess What the calcu are going to be rounded at a somewhat mid number to base my calculations off of

[Csdabest]

I've broken 300k damage with all 3 specs, but seriously combat spec is **** and good for nothing. watchman for pve, focus for pvp. both watchman/focus I've topped 400k damage WITHOUT a premade team.

 

Congrats. Im not going to lie and say im the best at pvp. Im right around the average. Still learning alot of thinsg but I can hold my own. I havent maxed out yet. And going in alone constantly w/ combat spec. I flirt around 100-150k damage when i go again people who are around my level 40-50 and get chewed out because it seems that emp players on my sever seem to stick together and rock premades alot. I always see the same lvl 50 epics running w/ one another. When Im grouped up with a premade i can bang out a 250 cuz the downtime i spend alive compared to when I am dead im actually able to stay in the fray and pump out more damage instead of spending time in the respawn room.

 

The fact that Combat cant kill as fast as it was suppose to be makes it alot harder to pump out damage consistently. Compared to the skill and lvl of other classes.

[Anelyn]

Offhand is more of a stats stick, is same for gunslingers / merc's dual wielding, you will never come even close to main hand dmg or accuracy.

 

As a focus sent, I only keep my offhand up to date for stats, the dmg itself is not relevant to my overall dmg - mainly force attacks which benefit from str.

[MBirkhofer]

Offhand is more of a stats stick, is same for gunslingers / merc's dual wielding, you will never come even close to main hand dmg or accuracy.

 

As a focus sent, I only keep my offhand up to date for stats, the dmg itself is not relevant to my overall dmg - mainly force attacks which benefit from str.

 

Untrue.

As a focus you need to keep both weapons even, even more then others.

The majority of your damage is force attacks.

Force attacks take the force power on your weapons EVENLY.

605 mainhand+605 offhand force power=1210 +other stats and inputs that into the skill ratio.

[Anelyn]

Untrue.

As a focus you need to keep both weapons even, even more then others.

The majority of your damage is force attacks.

Force attacks take the force power on your weapons EVENLY.

605 mainhand+605 offhand force power=1210 +other stats and inputs that into the skill ratio.

 

Either I did not use the right words or you misunderstood me. What I meant is I am accepting that my offhand dmg - on abilities / attacks that use both weapons, is crap, hence why I said is more of a stick with stats which buffs our force attacks. Yes I am using same hilts for both main hand and offhand, but weapon dmg from offhand will always be only a negligible fraction of our dps - hope I expressed it better this time :>

[AnthonyLeo]

I think another problem is while we may have similar DPS to the gunslingers, they are a ranged class while we are melee so they can hit from afar while we are limited to close up engagements save for a few moves. And our lack of CC's and breaks makes it hard for us to prevent an enemy from running away once we get up close. Now if the other person decides to stay and actually fight you 1v1 with no CC's of any kind, chances are very high that you are going to win if you do the right combos and use your defensive abilities at the right time. However, we all know that is usually not the case and once we get CC'd, we tend to get screwed over hard because either 1) we get CC'd, we use our break, then we get CC'd again with a different one, we die. or 2) we get CC'd+slowed, enemy runs away.

 

EDIT: Oh and just a suggestion. Might be better to compare the range (min to max + bonus) damages besides average damage. Would make more sense. But yeah, I'm only getting maybe 30-35% from my offhand, would like a boost to around 45-50% since we are a melee DPS class with a lack of CC's and break.

Edited January 13, 2012 by AnthonyLeo

[Coramac]

Issue 1# Damage Scaling

 

They purposly gimp our damage in our offhand weapon for other classes two compete with us in DPS. But they fail to realize that other classes get Shield generators and Stealth generators as an added bonus. For greater protection and greater stealth ability than we have. With the Guadian if they go they DPS route they still get a Sheild Generator for added defense yet able to compete with us in DMG. Why because our offhand light saber does around 28-36 damage from our Main hand light saber while Guadians and other single weapon classes have meatier damage in their single weapon. BUT they have added bonus of stealth and and shield generators for protection. Combine that with our low survibility and you have class that can't do their job as it was originaly planed to be done. (Just tossing out numbers right now) Juggs vs Sents Dmg capabilities and offhand gear. Lets say a Jugg can do around 600 Dmg (Pri) while a Sent can do 500 (Pri) with 150(Sec) on the damage scale. ( may be wrong but this is from hours of looking at what dmg pops up when what light saber hits. It seems the 450ish hits from the main while the off hand does 150. So if the juggs swipes his single light saber once. he will do around 550 Damage. If the Sent swipes his light saber both he woll do around 600 damage. Jugg 550 Sent (600) while we do end up doing "more" damage its not by alot or any good range that makes much of a different. Now here is the kicker. Sheild Generator for extra padding docking away a good percentage of what our damage does and have to fight through. Now top that off with the heavy armor padding it shows that we are quite obsolete. While we do have our Defensive CDs so do juggs and other classes to further boost their defense.

 

This is just flat our wrong. There is no real mainhand scaling. It is an illusion. Damage on melee attacks has three components: mainhand damage at 100%, offhand damage at 30-66%, and bonus damage. The bonus damage and mainhand damage are added together. Every compenet gets the full ability coefficient. This isn't really scaling. Scaling typically in MMOs refers to coefficients or things functioning in a similar manner like auto-attacking. It's more or less the same as attacking with a single weapon doing 130-166% base damage.

 

Edit: Type, had mainhand and offhand added together instead of bonus damage and mainhand.

 

Combat vs Watchmen.

 

It turning out for Combat to be more of a Pvp class while Watchmen to be the PVE class. As time moves on its seeming more apparent that watchmen is outclassing in both. Reason being is we rely on duel weilding with the damage coming from our offhand saber more than Watchmen. If your look at the beginning tier of Combat spec There is a little something called Duel weilding mastery. Which buffs up our off hand lightsaber. A spec more so made for combat spec. We have to burst our damage out. Really hard when our 2nd weapon does very little damage. The reason why Watchmen excells is because they have sustained damage that doesnt rely on the offhand weapon that much. It comes from burns and the ability to heal themselves. They hit you once theymget their base burst plus their DOTS. We only get our medicore burst due to our 2nd hand weapon doing squat even once we popped in our 3 skill points in Duel weild mastery( I have no idea what type of damage the offhand would do if we didnt have this in the first place.) If they boosted the offhand damage overrall we would be able to compete better with the damage from the watchmen tree. Now you can make the argument that a watchmen can as easily get their duel weild master in from that tree. But so can combat gett their talents frm their tree as well. Equal trade.

 

Why does everyone assume that Combat is oriented towards PvP. The tree is very obviously a sustained damage tree. I suspect people see the "autocrit" and think- clearly PvP burst. It isn't. It isn't a burst tree. It does have burst and very large burst potential, but it is definitely not a burst tree.

 

If you are Watchman, you should pick up off-hand spec especially for PvP. It adds a tremendous amount of damage to Merciless Strike.

 

Further more in the Combat vs Watchmen scheme. is Ataru vs Juyo

 

They both gain added damage in a way. Juyo gets an extra 2% damage increase with the ability to stack. Ataru gets the accuracy increase. Now with Juyo the damage increase goes along with their DOTS and they get further burst for their dots being able to be sustain. It floats all over their skill tree as a watchmen. With Combat not many of our specs allow us to capitalize on the accuracy bonus. Just percision strike which has a pretty beefy cool down with a short span to use the technique. Zen further and better assist the juyo form by increasing crits and granting heal for the party.

 

To be fair, Ataru also adds Ataru Strike procs. I agree that accuracy should be changed into something else.

 

Zen on the other hand decreases focus count for blade rush and slash along with a .5 gbc. If your ask me it kind of goes in the opposite direction of what Ataru form does. Especially if Shi-cho does it better with no cost for slash being able to spam it for the duration. With Slash. While you get a -1 on focus cost on the same ability. If you ask me. Zen for ataru form should have further boosted the accuracy of the attacks so we could gain even more direct damage and increase the chance for another ataru strike for the energy dmg dealing actual damage as well. Having those abilities coincinde with one another. That is real burst damage that can compete with Sustained.

 

I'm not even sure that the -.5 off the GCD is working. Eyeballing it, it definitely doesn't appear to be. It should be very easily noticiable.

 

MAKING THE OFFHAND USEFUL - A guide what I wrote in 30 seconds

 

1. Combat spec.

2. Ataru form.

3. Stack the absolute heck out of +hit.

4. Spam Blade Rush.

 

SO MANY NUMBERS, SO MANY ATARU PROCS

 

ps. Ataru procs do the same damage regardless of whether they were procced by the main or the offhand.

 

Ataru cannot proc from offhand. I believe it procs on ability usage as I have never seen more than one proc on a Master Strike. The double procs you see are from Blade Rush. Blade Rush's automatic proc does not count as a normal proc allowing for a second proc to occur.

 

 

Untrue.

As a focus you need to keep both weapons even, even more then others.

The majority of your damage is force attacks.

Force attacks take the force power on your weapons EVENLY.

605 mainhand+605 offhand force power=1210 +other stats and inputs that into the skill ratio.

 

I don't know if I'd agree with this. All the specs really need very strong offhand item level. Watchman needs it because a good offhand adds a lot of damage to Merciless Strike and adds significant damage to Cauterize and Overload Saber.

 

Combat is very dependent on it as well, I'd say even more so. First, it has by far the heaviest usage of two saber attacks. At the same time, it is very, very reliant on Force attacks as well between Blade Storm and Ataru Strikes. If you don't keep up your offhand as Combat, your are getting really rocked on both the Force damage and the melee damage.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Coramac

[Mavick]

What part of THESE NUMBERS ARE BASED ON AVERAGE. From a number of sentinels. The gear is NOT lopsided. Im speaking of having a lvl 50 purple purple lightsaber as your offhand w/ a level 30 Lightsaber green as your main hand.

 

Im speaking from a POV of the equipment is equal as in a lvl 47 Orange light saber for both main hand and offhand. Where actualy scaling can be judged and not lobsided with different level gear from purple equipment. Where you can get an actual consistent judgement on the calculations

 

 

We can go with purple all the way. For main hand and off hand at the level. Both sabers with similiar stats. Guess what. Its not going to change. The margin is still there and the offhand lightsbaer wiil still do roughly 30% of what the Mainhand does. Unless you found some offhand lightsaber equip that increases the percent of what the offhand does compared to the mainhand. Your looking way to hard at the numbers and not the percentage difference.

 

30% of 1000 is what. 300

30% of 500 is what. 150

30% of 100 is what. 30

 

No matter what your gear you have as long as its not lopsided horribly. Your offhand still does roughly 30% dmg of your main hand after the 3 skill points. Thats how it is on any and every level. So saying i havent seen numbers like that since lvl 40 is pointless in this debate as your coming from a bias point of you and neglecting the ingrained calculations of the game because you seem to think that lvl 40 damage has something to do with manipulating the calculations it doesnt. Tomorrow I will get my brain spankin new lvl 50 rare epic edition lightsabers for my off and main hand. All stats even out to a nice increase. My primary damage is like 2000 but yet my off hand is still doing 600 damage. Why is that. This gap seems familiar. Oh it doing roughly 30% damage of my offhand. (sarcasm) But yes. I can have a milion calculation for every stat. it almost impropable to give exact calcuations because you dont consistently do 500 pri damage. Its put in a range and you have to give calculations for every combination. Which i wont do. So guess What the calcu are going to be rounded at a somewhat mid number to base my calculations off of

 

 

What part of YOUR NUMBERS DO NOT REPRESENT AVERAGE are you having trouble with? Your offhand, on real average, does MORE then 30% of your mainhands damage if both items are of equal level WITH THAT TALENT.

[Mavick]

This is just flat our wrong. There is no real mainhand scaling. It is an illusion. Damage on melee attacks has three components: mainhand damage at 100%, offhand damage at 30-66%, and bonus damage. The offhand damage and mainhand damage are added together. Every compenet gets the full ability coefficient. This isn't really scaling. Scaling typically in MMOs refers to coefficients or things functioning in a similar manner like auto-attacking. It's more or less the same as attacking with a single weapon doing 130-166% base damage.

 

 

Look folks, someone figured it out...

[Csdabest]

This is just flat our wrong. There is no real mainhand scaling. It is an illusion. Damage on melee attacks has three components: mainhand damage at 100%, offhand damage at 30-66%, and bonus damage. The bonus damage and mainhand damage are added together. Every compenet gets the full ability coefficient. This isn't really scaling. Scaling typically in MMOs refers to coefficients or things functioning in a similar manner like auto-attacking. It's more or less the same as attacking with a single weapon doing 130-166% base damage.

 

Edit: Type, had mainhand and offhand added together instead of bonus damage and mainhand.[/Quote]

Maybe true in other games. But judging by calcs and what is presented in the game play. It doesnt float for this game. The fact that When hits from the offhand weapon land it generates a number. When it doesnt land it generates a miss. Meaning it doesnt factor in as a bonus it factors as it own weapon. If it was a bonus it would be done like a crit randomly boosting one number and not have multiple numbers fly across the screen. Offhand weapons do infact generate there own numbers and damage. It just merely does roughly 30%. . Even what your saying is correct. the "bonus" damage we get from it doesnt substite correctly for a lack of survivbility and stealth. Your not disproving what Im saying at all. Your merely just calling what im saying something else.

 

 

Why does everyone assume that Combat is oriented towards PvP. The tree is very obviously a sustained damage tree. I suspect people see the "autocrit" and think- clearly PvP burst. It isn't. It isn't a burst tree. It does have burst and very large burst potential, but it is definitely not a burst tree.

 

If you are Watchman, you should pick up off-hand spec especially for PvP. It adds a tremendous amount of damage to Merciless Strike.

 

Cant really reply. To each its own for each thing. People can use what ever tree for what ever situtaion. But I will say During developement and own paper Watchmen looks more like sustained damage while Combat was burst. Actuallly with all the direct damage generated from accuracy and energy damage gained from proc ataru hits i guess it would appear bursty

 

To be fair, Ataru also adds Ataru Strike procs. I agree that accuracy should be changed into something else.

Oh im very well aware of the Ataru strike. Ithink it simply needs to further boost the percentage it happens. cuz as of late right now with the fast pace of switching over techniques you perform with all the animation stuttering. No one really has time to see if the ataru strike is going to hit or not. Actually I would prefer they keep accuracy because it does give a damage bonus towards direct damage. Its like a mini percision strike. Just when you use precision strike it happens for every hit. while ataru just hits every now and then. I would prefer if they made Zen buff up accuracy for direct damage and parrying and had more techniques that specilty was bypassing armor for direct damage

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if I'd agree with this. All the specs really need very strong offhand item level. Watchman needs it because a good offhand adds a lot of damage to Merciless Strike and adds significant damage to Cauterize and Overload Saber.

 

Combat is very dependent on it as well, I'd say even more so. First, it has by far the heaviest usage of two saber attacks. At the same time, it is very, very reliant on Force attacks as well between Blade Storm and Ataru Strikes. If you don't keep up your offhand as Combat, your are getting really rocked on both the Force damage and the melee damage.

I have flirted with Watchmen spec at best. Havent really studied i the offhand increases damage for the burns that overload saber and cauterize do. when its performing its dots.

[Csdabest]

What part of YOUR NUMBERS DO NOT REPRESENT AVERAGE are you having trouble with? Your offhand, on real average, does MORE then 30% of your mainhands damage if both items are of equal level WITH THAT TALENT.

 

Obviously you dont know what average means. Do the math. Look at offhand. range damage and look at the mainhand range damage. You will see quite conviningly if both items are evened out. It does roughly around 30% of the mainhand. even after you spec those 3 points into it. SIMPLE mathmatics. You were just saying how I dont make sense just because my numbers seemed lvl 40ish w/ green item and talking about how someone is not using purple items for their offhand. What your describing is far from average. Every single person is not going to have the same exact numbers as you and when you play with the division of numbers to generate a percentage its going to come out funky. Thats why im using even numbers that closely resemebles what sentinels have. Ask some fellow sentinels on your server what their Pri and Sec is for their damage. Do the averages then calculate what percentage that their sec damage is doing compared to what their Pri is doing. Your being petty over numbers when the real thing here is percentages. Just because the talent says when maxed out increases the offhand damage by 36% doesnt mean the sec is going to do more than 36% cuz we have to consider what the origininal damage was before those 3 skill points was factored in. Everyone is noticing that for mainly sents their offhand weapon is doing alot less damage than their mainhands even compared to other classes. Im just merely supporing that fact with numbers gathered from other sents That the damage around your offhand floats around 30%. That is indeed undeniable. Unless your gear is lopsided.

 

But hey. Feel free to post your Numbers for pri and sec range for damage. Or just do the calculations your self. and tell me what percentage your offhand is doing. Or better yet just tell me what you think the "correct" precentage is. Surely aint 50% or 60%. Give me your percentages.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Csdabest

[Coramac]

Maybe true in other games. But judging by calcs and what is presented in the game play. It doesnt float for this game. The fact that When hits from the offhand weapon land it generates a number. When it doesnt land it generates a miss. Meaning it doesnt factor in as a bonus it factors as it own weapon. If it was a bonus it would be done like a crit randomly boosting one number and not have multiple numbers fly across the screen. Offhand weapons do infact generate there own numbers and damage. It just merely does roughly 30%. . Even what your saying is correct. the "bonus" damage we get from it doesnt substite correctly for a lack of survivbility and stealth. Your not disproving what Im saying at all. Your merely just calling what im saying something else.

 

You can't have off-hand scaling the way the classes are designed. It just doesn't work. That's what I'm saying. You would need to drastically alter coefficients to compensate for stat double dipping. This would become extremely difficult to do as we share so many abilities with Guardians. Essentially, every single shared melee ability would have to have a Guardian version and a Sentinel version or some similar work around that is going to be about as overly cumbersome.

 

You completely missed the point I made about DWing being an illusion. If an ability hits three times, does 30 damage a hit, and all hits occur simultaneously, it's the same as an ability that hits for 90 damage. The only real functional difference is that the 3 hit ability is going to perform closer to its expected value due to crit distribution. This is a disadvantage in some situations, an advantage in others, and irrelevant in most.

 

I'm not saying you are calling it something different. I'm saying you have no idea what you are talking about. The mainhand / offhand issue is little more than people not liking the thematic appearence of the numbers.

 

Cant really reply. To each its own for each thing. People can use what ever tree for what ever situtaion. But I will say During developement and own paper Watchmen looks more like sustained damage while Combat was burst. Actuallly with all the direct damage generated from accuracy and energy damage gained from proc ataru hits i guess it would appear bursty

 

No, it doesn't. What's your argument here? DoT's aren't burst, Combat is all DD which is burst. This is just unbelievably false. DoTs can be burst. Watchman DoTs are 6 seconds and crit hard. Watchman has the single most damaging ability in all the Sentinel trees. Combat gets superior Focus generation, very consistent procs, and an autocrit. You look at the nature of it's abilities and talents- sustained DPS. Whether this is intended to be so or not, that's what it is.

 

Oh im very well aware of the Ataru strike. Ithink it simply needs to further boost the percentage it happens. cuz as of late right now with the fast pace of switching over techniques you perform with all the animation stuttering. No one really has time to see if the ataru strike is going to hit or not. Actually I would prefer they keep accuracy because it does give a damage bonus towards direct damage. Its like a mini percision strike. Just when you use precision strike it happens for every hit. while ataru just hits every now and then. I would prefer if they made Zen buff up accuracy for direct damage and parrying and had more techniques that specilty was bypassing armor for direct damage

 

Ataru Procs cannot miss. I do agree that it needs a boost. I think the best way to do this is make Ataru a baseline Sentinel stance like Juyo and replace Ataru Stance with Blade Rush in the tree.

 

After you get Blade Rush, you do not get an Ataru Strike "every not and then." You get them constantly. It makes the spec workable.

 

I have flirted with Watchmen spec at best. Havent really studied i the offhand increases damage for the burns that overload saber and cauterize do. when its performing its dots.

 

Offhand spec is somewhere around a 10% increase in damage for pretty much any ability that uses both sabers. It's a phenomenal talent. It's relative effectiveness goes up or down depending on how much your bonus damage is compared to your offhand damage.

[HaleTheFreeVoice]

no combat log no validity Edited January 13, 2012 by HaleTheFreeVoice

[HaleTheFreeVoice]

what point of "there is no combat log" do you not understand???? so are you seriously telling me you are literally, watching the floating numbers and comparing them with another persons floating numbers?

 

 

are you mental? YOU are broken....everything you are OP is wrong... there is no validity to half the things you are saying.

 

instead of branding it broken, why don't you TRY A DIFFERENT ******* WAY OF PLAYING IT!!??

Edited January 13, 2012 by HaleTheFreeVoice

[HaleTheFreeVoice]

first of all go back a second. why are you comparing a jedi guardian and a sentinel against each other in the first place? the reason the guardian does "more damage is because its not...

 

you are going against a dps/tank class who wheres heavy armor and has better gear, stuns, taunts, interrupts, and abilities then you do...

 

second of all, stop comparing sentinels offhand to the "offhand" of a tank class.

 

"omg i can't do as much DPS with my offhand as that tank guy can with his"=? *** are you talking about? are there shield gens attacking you? no it just gives then stats that make them harder to kill obviously. you aren't doing less DPS you ding dong, they are just taking less damage from you because they OBVIOUSLY have the upper hand in almost every single way possible in this fight.

 

 

and news flash, guardians CAN out DPS a sentinel, its not really that hard dude.

terrible comparison with shotty evidence and theories to back them up, all this "on paper" crap is invalid.

 

i dont see why you're saying this class is broken... they made the class this way... YES on purpose. soo i don't see the arguement other then you hate the way the did this class.

[HaleTheFreeVoice]

this arguement is invalid because there is no combat log, and that these "percentages" which are wrong... are also paper and pencil percentages which also makes them invalid and yet again wrong.

 

i have spoken -.-

Edited January 13, 2012 by HaleTheFreeVoice