You can have my stuff ^.^

[Gohlar]

I think you are the one engaged in some self-deception. TBC turned WoW into a juggernaut. Before TBC WoW was merely huge. After TBC it was the world's largest MMO by far. People loved it. You didn't. You were in the tiny minority.

 

WoW was a great game and TBC was the 1st expansion. You all were very excited, I get it.

 

But the reality of the situation is that it didn't do anything special at all. I did love TBC at the time, when did I say I didn't.

 

But listing standard mmo conventions, that TBC used in abundance, as a reason to dislike SW is silly.

 

WoW didn't feel dead to me. But I guess your theory will be put to the test since after a break of over a year I've once again resubbed, the disappointment that is TOR ignited a spark of curiosity so I decided to find out if there really is any point in playing a WoW styled theme park when the "original" is still going so strong.

 

Thanks for proving my point. You want to play WoW. Instead of letting go people feel the need to justify leaving a game lol. Have fun doing the same stuff?

 

Again, WoW is great. There's nothing wrong with it. But you ARE doing that same stuff that the OP is complaining about.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Gohlar

[Drakos]

You are missing the context of your own post. You keep listing things that were problems in TBC and pretending they weren't. I used to waste so much time trying to group for heroics as dps. TBC had very generic, standard questing but was somehow more "epic"? I don't think so.

 

Take off the rose colored glasses and join the rest of us in reality please.

 

You don't have to like SW. But be honest as to why.

 

Firstly, I never said they weren't problems in TBC. I also never said TOR had a problem with feeling "epic." This is sadly another case of you putting words in my mouth, but I'm also assuming you never actually read the initial post. I wouldn't make the claim that TBC WoW is "better" than TOR, but TOR's storytelling is the best in the MMO market right now.

 

But story isn't enough, and TOR is sadly lacking in many things WoW had in spades long before, throughout, and even after Burning Crusade.

 

I'm still convinced you haven't actually read my post, as you haven't addressed a single line of it in proper context. You're assuming I'm making this out to be a WoW vs TOR quality assessment, when almost all of my WoW references point to specific types of things that happened during the game involving players made possible by the structure of the game that are currently impossible in TOR.

[Hautaaja]

WoW was a great game and TBC was the 1st expansion. You all were very excited, I get it.

 

But the reality of the situation is that it didn't do anything special at all. I did love TBC at the time, when did I say I didn't.

 

But listing standard mmo conventions, that TBC used in abundance, as a reason to dislike SW is silly.

 

 

 

Thanks for proving my point. You want to play WoW. Instead of letting go people feel the need to justify leaving a game lol. Have fun doing the same stuff?

 

It's not that I specifically want to play WoW, couple days ago it was nowhere on my mind since I grew extremely bored of it. However this game is so similar to WoW, yet lacking in polish that I see no reason to play it if it turns out that WoW truly does what this game does but better, with the exception of VO.

[Gohlar]

Firstly, I never said they weren't problems in TBC. I also never said TOR had a problem with feeling "epic." This is sadly another case of you putting words in my mouth

 

You said the world feels flat and dead while WoW had an extremely similar setup.

 

Lie to yourself all you want, but please keep it to yourself. Thanks.

 

It's not that I specifically want to play WoW, couple days ago it was nowhere on my mind since I grew extremely bored of it. However this game is so similar to WoW, yet lacking in polish that I see no reason to play it if it turns out that WoW truly does what this game does but better, with the exception of VO.

 

More power to you. I'm sick of WoW and enjoying something new. I just had a problem with the OP pretending that WoW was this vastly different experience. It wasn't.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Gohlar

[Mannic]

WoW was released in worse shape than this one, which I find ironic considering that's the game you compare this to in all the other posts you say the exact same nonsense in.

 

And before you go "nuh-uh!", read the patch notes on bug fixes/feature additions for two years after release so you can remember how truly trashy vanilla was:

 

http://www.wowpedia.org/Patch_1.1.0

 

WoW was released back when MMO's still had to struggle with technological limitations that were very real. Servers are 20 times more powerful now than they were in 2004. Clients are 20 times more powerful. The average user has 10 times more bandwidth and a much more stable broadband connection. Techniques have advanced BIG-TIME since WoW released. Before WoW, things like sharding and heavy instancing and phasing were virtually unheard of outside and were definitely not perfected.

 

No developer in 2004 would have dreamed of insulting their customers with a staggered release where "we'll let you into the game at our convenience." There was no sharding to help balance server loads. There was no EGA to further stagger release. Bioware has SO many advantages that Blizzard didn't have in 2004, yet people are still trying to justify this poor release based on how another game was 7 years ago.

[Drakos]

You said the world feels flat and dead while WoW had an extremely similar setup.

 

Lie to yourself all you want, but please keep it to yourself. Thanks.

 

Self-quoting with full-context since you seem to be either blind or incapable of comprehending what you read.

 

The world(s) feels empty and dead. It may be small population, it may be the geography of planets versus quest-distribution for factions, but I never see Republic characters, and even stumbling upon allies is a rare instance.

 

Now, did you read that? Did you see how I even included possible explanations as to why TOR felt "empty and dead"? It has everything to do with other players, and nothing to do with how the environment or NPCs were designed. Because above, I praised the environment profusely and make sure to do so in every thread where applicable.

 

One of the few things TOR really has going for it are the ambient NPC's and their dialogues, and I can easily admit that. But, given I'm usually running past those people to do quests - alone because most people on most servers will only group for the Heroic 4+'s before immediately breaking group and getting back to their SRPG experience - the impact of those ambient NPCs is lessened somewhat.

[Gohlar]

Self-quoting with full-context since you seem to be either blind or incapable of comprehending what you read.

 

What's the point of quoting nonsense about how I didn't read the post when I just used the OP to shut you down?

 

Like whatever you want, it's cool. Just be honest.

 

 

Now, did you read that? Did you see how I even included possible explanations as to why TOR felt "empty and dead"? It has everything to do with other players, and nothing to do with how the environment or NPCs were designed.

 

You don't see other players? What? You roll on a dead server or something?

Edited January 12, 2012 by Gohlar

[Dianoia]

WoW was released back when MMO's still had to struggle with technological limitations that were very real. Servers are 20 times more powerful now than they were in 2004. Clients are 20 times more powerful. The average user has 10 times more bandwidth and a much more stable broadband connection. Techniques have advanced BIG-TIME since WoW released. Before WoW, things like sharding and heavy instancing and phasing were virtually unheard of outside and were definitely not perfected.

 

No developer in 2004 would have dreamed of insulting their customers with a staggered release where "we'll let you into the game at our convenience." There was no sharding to help balance server loads. There was no EGA to further stagger release. Bioware has SO many advantages that Blizzard didn't have in 2004, yet people are still trying to justify this poor release based on how another game was 7 years ago.

 

What are you talking abou?

 

Read his quote, then read my post. I wasn't talking about if it was acceptable or not. I said WoW had problems and kept subscriptions, which proves his "look at history" dribble untrue.

[thomaspraill]

Honestly, I didn't give it any credibility at the time, but I'm starting to wonder if there was at least some truth to the EALouse blog stating that Bioware and EA were in a panic over the state of TOR.

Looks like it. Back in 2010 he was saying the game was a joke, the only thing it had going for it was VO and story, the people working on it were unremarkable, and major layoffs were happening in november. Sounds right to me on all accounts. The layoffs would even explain the horrible customer service.

Edited January 12, 2012 by thomaspraill

[Drakos]

What's the point of quoting nonsense about how I didn't read the post when I just used the OP to shut you down?

 

Like whatever you want, it's cool. Just be honest.

 

Considering your use of the OP is different from my direct link of my own post.... yes. Continue believing you've "shut me down." Since you're going to continue posting the same couple of sentences rather than admitting you were wrong, there's no point in continuing with you.

[Gohlar]

Considering your use of the OP is different from my direct link of my own post.... yes. Continue believing you've "shut me down." Since you're going to continue posting the same couple of sentences rather than admitting you were wrong, there's no point in continuing with you.

 

I'm wrong? About what? Both games using similar conventions?

 

LOL!

 

Also, "The world(s) feels empty and dead" Your words. Choose them more carefully next time if you don't like people punching holes in your arguments.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Gohlar

[Gohlar]

So yea leave and wait for your savior Titus or Titan or whatever u think it will be called.

 

To be fair Titan is still years away and will most likely be awesome. But yeah I agree with you.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Gohlar

[Archaon_Thrax]

The fact that everyone and their mom playing a sith warrior will - at the earliest available moment - brag about having implied intercourse with Jaessa as well as cackle wildly over their sadistic nature each and every time they shock Vette with a collar - I think I've ignored more immature players who can't stop talking about that than I've friended people.

 

I don't see anything appealing about the Darkside Jeassa to be honest...

 

If you ask me, Vette is the only one who actually deserves to be with my Juggy. She's funny, quick-witted, kind and innocent.

 

Though, I did tell her to behave the first time she asked about the collar. Didn't shock her or anything, was just worried she'd flee the moment that collar was off while we were on the Imperial Fleet. Waited till I got my own ship before deactivating it just to make sure she didn't try anything.

 

You can't really flee on a house-sized ship.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Archaon_Thrax

[Gohlar]

Oh look, another person who didn't read the thread and thus has no idea that I actually don't currently play WoW because Cataclysm made it awful.

 

Cata did more of the same. Another great example of confusion between burn out and game quality.

[Drakos]

I don't see anything appealing about the Darkside Jeassa to be honest...

 

If you ask me, Vette is the only one who actually deserves to be with my Juggy. She's funny, quick-witted and innocent.

 

Though, I did tell her to behave the first time she asked about the collar. Didn't shock her or anything, was just worried she'd flee the moment that collar was off while we were on the Imperial Fleet. Waited till I got my own ship before deactivating it just to make sure she didn't try anything.

 

You can't really flee on a house-sized ship.

 

You are my kinda man, Archaon. If I were still playing, I would add you to my friends list. If there were a cross-server Friends list.

 

I should go suggest that before my time is up.

[Cfalcen]

Cata made the game easy for 11 year olds to play blindfolded. I was able to see the end expansion boss within three days of hitting 85. The LAST boss of the EXPANSION. I saw him in three days. Pathetic.

 

I fear eventually TOR will have the same fate.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Cfalcen

[Stirbend]

I actually considered going to elysium at one point...dangit.

[Stirbend]

Wouldn't it have been easier to simply say you are sick of MMOs?

 

That is what is going on here...Why do people try to convince themselves it's the game's fault? Even going so far as to list standard mmo conventions as reasons why a game isn't good?

 

Oh well, people are strange. I saw the same thing with Cata. People have a hard time letting go I guess.

 

I know i'm sick of them. more or less anyways. Really the last MMO i probably will ever try or play aside from swtor is tera. Unless someone makes a new interesting combat system, or neat twists in the literal way the game is played, i find myself getting burned out from boredom too easy, particularly in the leveling process.

 

Now i will stay subbed to swtor, because they did a great job making the game, and that deserves some support. I just don't know how much i will actually continue to play, at least on the scale that i used to.

 

Anyways-

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/719762/star-wars-the-old-republic-and-why-its-a-success-sesslers-soapbox/

[Florial]

Very well written post Drakos. Both my husband and I haven't invested as much time as others in the game and will probably get our 3 month sub money's worth out of the game. Whether the game can retain us is another matter and you touched upon many points that I've been feeling.

 

One thing that I didn't see mentioned (forgive me if it was--on my first cup of coffee) is the absence of social tools like a better LFG system, server forums, etc. Both of us have felt like we are playing a single player game at times--a fun one but a single player game nevertheless. It has been really tough finding a like minded group of people to play with. Finding a good guild has been like a needle in a haystack due to the fragmented feeling of the game and lack of server forums.

[Kerploded]

I have to agree; a whole lot of little things that, individually, are not a huge deal rapidly add up in to a serious case of "Meh". Ultimately, this doesn't have many features one would expect from a new MMO (be it story driven or not) and what is there is barebones at best.

 

That coupled with the endless grindy questing through densely packed, linear corridors and atrocious PvP system... Well, I might come back in a few months and see what has changed, but there are some fundamental design flaws that discourage me.

 

Crafting, I have to say, is one of the biggest disappointments for me personally; I could even handle all the items being sub-par in every way, if it weren't so interminably tedious. And why oh why cannot we not upgrade the skill-less, annoying droid on our ships with crafting bonuses to suit what we have? Seems like a no brainer, but...

 

Too much game sacrificed to the altar of story, perhaps, I don't know.

 

My opinion of course, your mileage will vary.

[Castiel]

The funny thing is that you really think we are the minority.

 

I see you present valid data. Also, judging by your sig, your post is doubly worthless.

[Monthigos]

This is classic MMO burnout, and yes I read the whole first post. I didn't play much WoW (got one level 71 hunter, I think) but I've played more MMOs than you can shake a stick at. The MMO I stuck with the longest was SWG, but I've put in time with EQ, DAoC, WoW, EQ2, AC2, Neocron, Aion, STO, DCUO, MXO, EVE, AO, BP, CoH, Champions, Free Realms (that one actually lasted a long time, fun kids game), GW...I could go on, and on and on. There are few gamers out there with a lower attention span than me. I'm the gamer that everyone laments on the forums for going from game to game to game, but I can't help it because I want to try them all.

 

The reason I stuck with SWG the longest wasn't because it was a sandbox game. It's because it was Star Wars. You see Star Wars is my niche. I play all the Star Wars games (even the crappy ones) because I just love it so much. I also love Bioware and their approach to games. I'm hooked on their cutscenes and I'm a lover of conversation. To me this game is pure unbridled bliss. Do I think the armor is ugly? Some of it is. Do I wish I could see high resolution textures on my character? You betcha. I'm a healer and crappy PvP'er so do you think I get frustrated with PvP sometimes? Sure. Have I seen better trade systems? No doubt. Do some classes feel overpowered? I suppose.

 

But having played ALL those MMOs, I can tell you this is a SOLID game. WoW is the king of MMOs for a number of reasons: a pre-existing battle.net fanbase, accessibility to all gamers and the dangling carrot of quests that was so lacking in previous MMOs. To say SWTOR isn't a clone of WoW gameplay mechanics is just denial. Granted it adds cutscenes, but it plays EXACTLY like every traditional post-WoW MMO out there. I know. I've played a good deal of them. I'm not saying WoW is the progenitor of the MMO industry because certainly WoW played like EQ and DAoC. But it created the compelling quest system which is the driving factor of successful MMOs because most people need a purpose to play. I'm also not saying there is anything wrong with this. It works. Bioware and EA knew this. Where SWG catered to a fringe crowd, SWTOR attempts to be more accessible.

 

The problem here is that you've played this game already. A lot. In WoW and other MMOs. You are burned out, and suddenly the flaws are unacceptable. I'd highly recommend you take a MMO break for a couple months, or try something completely different for a while otherwise you'll probably run into the same issue everywhere you go. I know how it feels, trust me.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Monthigos

[badseed]

--The world(s) feels empty and dead. It may be small population, it may be the geography of planets versus quest-distribution for factions, but I never see Republic characters, and even stumbling upon allies is a rare instance.--

 

funny i see the opposing faction quite often, and if my instance is empty i can travel to the one that isn't so empty. but i'm sure if there wasn't instanced zones you'd be up here complaining about over populated questing area's being to small...or not ..w/e.

 

 

 

--Imperial Fleet is a curse. Given the way Looking For Group works (tied to the /who <current area> list), where the GTN is located as well as the entrypoint to all Flashpoints, the dreaded situation of standing in a quest-less zone spamming chat for groups was forced into existence, and there's no avoiding it. --

 

i remember a time when i use to have to" /who warrior 60 iron forge" and just go down the list and ask them if they wanted to tank ubrs for me ...and assemble groups that way, for months and months...and months..it was so hard to type stuff back in the day, and have to actually make groups on my own..poor me.

 

 

 

---For my experience, personally, part of an enjoyable MMO is seeing pretty things and going after them,---

 

how about useful things? are there any of those items in game?

 

---Discovering that PvP sorely needs diminishing returns on stuns and a significant nerf to expertise as well as class re-balancing between mirrored classes, as well as a hatred for Assassins and Shadows for their ability to tank, harass, stealth and re-stealth in warzones that rely heavily on defending nodes. ---

 

stuns weight heavy on your resolve bar, and you have a free trinket, and youre an Inquisitor..lmao..i'll refrain from anything further on that topic. cause this one is easy to draw conclusion from.

 

 

--Or rolling two Sorceresses after discovering there was no upward cap on respec costs despite wanting to play both Madness and Corruption within the same AC.--

play a little, read more, play some more, then do some reading..then maybe, just maybe respec. it's not BW fault that you can't look at a spec tree or watch some video's or read guides before you make foolish mistakes ..

 

i'll stop here man, cause you're clearly the cause of your own problems .

 

good bye

[noob_stoob]

I agree with a lot of this especially the feeling that there is nothing to explore, each world has felt very dead. After saying that I am going to continue for now but how long it will hold my attention I dont know and when I start having to pay for it I may change be off very quickly!

[badseed]

This is classic MMO burnout

 

 

i doubt it , my bet would be he had unrealistic expectations for a video game . and he's never been a typical MMO player . cause believe it or not MMO's aren't for every one ..only wow is for every one .

 

and SWG combat system was such BS. i remember coming out of the cloner durring a war w/ an imp guild, and just spamming my one button eye shot macro and leveling 4 people in seconds ..cause you can't heal the mind bar . you could macro entire rotaions to one button, dont get me started on KD spam and def stacking ..horrible game in comparison to this one ..

 

from a combat perspective

Edited January 12, 2012 by badseed