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PvP specs (Immortal)

DrWhorible

By DrWhorible
in Guardian / Juggernaut

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DrWhorible

DrWhorible

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So here's the deal. I see everyone and their mother going Rage for the LOLworthy smashes. But there's SO much utility in the immortal tree? Has anyone tried using immortal with all dps gear? Immortal just seems like it would be the hotness, but since I'm not 50 I have no idea what kind of damage it would be capable of in dps gear. Thoughts? Rage or ****?
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Sykomyke

Sykomyke

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I like immortal as PvP. Sure I don't put out wicked mad DPS. But that's not my job.

 

I'm using the following build currently in PvP:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101frhfz0rkuRZhZGb.1

 

It's mainly a crowd control build. I'm a little dissapointed with some of the ways immortal is lacking in pvp right now. (Mainly due to the fact that very few attacks are mitigated by our defense or shield stats; most attacks bypass our defenses directly and are either only mitigated by our armor rating...or not at all...which is ridiculous)

 

With that being said, I'ts really only successful if you have a pocket healer you shield. You shield the healer, healer watches your health. If they attack you, the healer heals/throws damage at them. If they attack your healer, you taunt them and they are doing 80% reduced damage to the healer: (50% damage is directed to you, 30% reduced damage if a taunted target doesn't attack you).

 

I regularly am at the top of the boards with medals earned. (between 5-8 medals on average). My best amount of damage "protected" in a single match was 72k. Though it's rare for my damage in a match to go over 100k. (Usually averages around 80k)

 

The only saving grace is this build is great for all 3 forms of PvP. It shines in a defensive position (Defending doors in voidstar, defending turrets in alderaan, carrying the ball in huttball). Where it lacks is this: Killing ball-carriers/ball defenders in huttball, attacking a controlling point in alderaan, and assaulting doors in voidstar.

 

Overall it's a different playstyle. It's very rewarding to know that you and one other person (your healer friend) can make an impact on the match just by defending a point.

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AllanGand

AllanGand

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granted I usually play with a premade of a healer and 2 dps. But our dps normally do about 200k, and I do 100k. You can do plenty of dps as an immortal jug with the tanking stats. And with expertise you are damn near immortal with a healer.

 

Anyway, based on theorycrafting, it would actually be better to go for the DPS gear as a lot of skills are said to bypass defense, and shield chance/absorb.

 

However until we get a combat log, we can't tell if that's true or not.

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Sykomyke

Sykomyke

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granted I usually play with a premade of a healer and 2 dps. But our dps normally do about 200k, and I do 100k. You can do plenty of dps as an immortal jug with the tanking stats. And with expertise you are damn near immortal with a healer.

 

Anyway, based on theorycrafting, it would actually be better to go for the DPS gear as a lot of skills are said to bypass defense, and shield chance/absorb.

 

However until we get a combat log, we can't tell if that's true or not.

 

True...I also heard the "DPS" set for Juggernaut has better bonuses (and they aren't bugged either!)

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Lymain

Lymain

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Can break 200K fairly easily in mostly champion DPS gear (assuming it's a game where you're fighting a lot), but there is a noticable survivability drop compared to the tank gear in some situations, like carrying the ball in Huttball.

 

Overall, I recommend Immortal spec if you enjoy playing the objectives, especially if you queue with friends often. I've yet to try Rage myself, but I imagine Rage + Soresu would be a better setup if you're the type that puts a lot of stock in scoreboard stats.

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kikleon

kikleon

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I use the following spec, though I may change it eventually.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMGbuMrkuRZhGM.1

 

I usually get between 8 and 13 medals, depending on the warzone. End of warzone numbers vary greatly based off of what warzone and team comps. Running with one other healer I can usually hit 200k damage, ~80k protection, 50k healing.

 

I use the tanking pvp set, but I took out the mods from one of the dps items and put it in the tanking one. I plan on having a full tanking gear set that is mixed on stats, and a 2 piece 2 piece set that is full defensive.

 

I don't find the defensive stats to be too underwhelming, but since even if I am running with more than just a healer, the other 2 are usually tank specs as well. Also the extra damage (crit/surge) help with getting the 2.5k medallion.

 

Currently I am in 4 piece champion main slots, dps earpiece (have tank one as well) one of each implant, waist and shield, and a centurian bracers. Weapon and boots are orange, using a rank 5 darkside trinket of +crit/surge and the defense matrix cube (rakata cube farming is a pita). I am also biochem and run either endurance or might (non rakata) with a rakata surge adrenal. Might use the rakata power adrenal as the surge one only adds another 10% to crit damage due to horrible scaling (baseline is about 70%, trinket brings it up to 85, adrenal brings it up to 97.x)

 

Most annoying class so far is the sniper, and only really on huttball. Can't charge them, they shoot at me all day. Operatives tend to hate me due to stunning them the moment they open on a squishy or interceding the squishy and saving them, sorcs aren't too bad because of the stun component of the charge I can position myself to not get knocked off imediately (and if another warrior charges up I can intercede up). I could write up a lot more for each match up but I think other warriors dont see an issue with bounty hunters and other warriors, usually only sorcs/ops are complained about.

 

About the spec, I may ditch the accuracy for choke reduction and move points around to get a free snare. A sorc told me they have 10% base defense so I may not as well. Right now I have 109% for specials.

 

I definately would not go without the 2 stacks of sunder per sunder. Crushing Blow adds the sunders first and then calculates damage from my (limited) testing of attacking mobs and noticing it doing damage in the upper range set without it criting. This means Sunder/Crushing will get you the increased damage right away.

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dcjoker

dcjoker

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http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101frGcuMbouoZhGZM.1

 

That's what I've been using. I tried all 3 trees and stuck with immortal. Immortal helps the team a lot more and your dmg isn't amazing but it doesn't suck either. Also its nice to be able to put 5 stacks of sunder on someone in 2 globals.

 

I have the 2 piece set bonus for tank (1 extra second on force choke). I know it's bugged but just stand still for a split second to cast it and you can start moving again. They'll fix it eventually but having a 4 second force choke is really nice.

 

That and backhand is amazing cuz my pimp hand strong.

 

Plus as immortal you have no problems with rage while being in soresu stance - which you should be in for pvp in any spec anyway.

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DrWhorible

DrWhorible

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Yea, I think a lot of you guys aren't getting what I'm saying or haven't tried it. I want to go immortal, but use nothing but dps gear. I'm assuming the reason most people say immortal hits like a wet noodle is because they're using tanking gear. Since many people have said most of the tanking stats don't help when it comes to player damage, I was wondering if using all dps gear as an immortal would work, as it has a **** load of cc, soresu, guard, etc.
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Redial

Redial

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Overall, I recommend Immortal spec if you enjoy playing the objectives,

 

^this

 

I have not tried immortal but i switch between shien and soresu. Immortal (soresu) is great for most objectives. Even in the voidstar the guard and taunt make keeping teammates alive fun, and you get tons of medals

 

 

if you just want to smash things, well you know the smash spec

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Shendaar

Shendaar

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Yea, I think a lot of you guys aren't getting what I'm saying or haven't tried it. I want to go immortal, but use nothing but dps gear. I'm assuming the reason most people say immortal hits like a wet noodle is because they're using tanking gear. Since many people have said most of the tanking stats don't help when it comes to player damage, I was wondering if using all dps gear as an immortal would work, as it has a **** load of cc, soresu, guard, etc.

 

I run Immortal in DPS gear except that I use a shield instead of a focus (figured I might as well since I'll be in Soresu form all the time). I have tried speccing Rage and Vengeance in PvP and while Rage is fun for the massive smash hit, it just doesn't have enough utility. In long games and with a healer, I can generally hit 220k total damage or so. Immortal in DPS gear is definitely viable.

 

Edit: This is the build I currently run: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crhszrrouRZhRr.1

Edited by Shendaar
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Barael

Barael

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I use the following spec, though I may change it eventually.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMGbuMrkuRZhGM.1

 

 

Really - this spec confused me. You have missed two absolutely amazing pvp talents (free aoe snare, and 4 rage every time you get stunned), and you've put some really weird points in Blade Barricade and Guard Stance, they basically do not work in pvp. Intimidation and Unyielding are pretty much mandatory imo.

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Ulliam

Ulliam

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Really - this spec confused me. You have missed two absolutely amazing pvp talents (free aoe snare, and 4 rage every time you get stunned), and you've put some really weird points in Blade Barricade and Guard Stance, they basically do not work in pvp. Intimidation and Unyielding are pretty much mandatory imo.

 

Why wouldn't those work in PvP?

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DrWhorible

DrWhorible

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Alright, I've decided I'm going to try Immortal and see how it goes. With guard, the taunts, and the extra utility from stuns etc it seems like it'll work really well. That said, does Quake have any effect in pvp? (Smash has 100 % chance to lower the accuracy of effected targets by 10%)?
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thrashpower

thrashpower

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Not sure why anyone would play immortal without 2/2 unstoppable. It makes all the difference especially in huttball. It provides immunity to everything, even knockdown.

I haven't lost a huttball(8 games, 5 of them solo queued without healer) since I respecced to this from rage.

 

If I play with a healer I never die and get 10-12 medals, if I don't play with a healer I die 20 times and get 10-12 medals still. I use dps gear and a shield generator in soresu form.

 

I just walk around taunting, slowing, chocking, stunning and occasionally killing people while continuously changing my guard target.

 

here's my spec, very similar to another spec that was posted here some time ago

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crGfzMbozZhRrzMZMM.1

 

I have to admit its a very boring spec to play, I don't think putting 31 points in immortal will change it. I've been pondering if I wanted to level up another tank for pvp but I am not sure if grapple/stealth will make pvp tanking more fun than intercede already does.

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RaiTidR

RaiTidR

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I just posted this build in the Warrior forum above these advanced class forums. This is more the path of getting survivability from the Immortal tree and boosting your damage. In my opinion this takes advantage of Immortal Spec running DPS gear.

 

I've been PvPing since I was level 10 and I'm only 44 so I do not know if Pooled Hatred is a waste in this build, I've not been able to do that. In theory it seems like it would be a great benefit.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMGsuM0kzZhrr0r0z.1

 

Primarily I focus on the Force Charge Stun, Backhand Stun, Force Choke Non-Channel, Force Push Redux CD (according to proposed changes resetting cd on Force Charge).

 

There are 2 points left over in this build, I am thinking closely of getting Sonic Barrier in the Immortal Tree or getting Ravager in Rage.

 

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There are some mobile points as well... you can adjust unyielding / accuracy if you want, you could even remove the point from Ruin if you like that. I personally find free smash valuable. Though I haven't struggled with major rage problems. It might be better to point the point in unleashed for 30s off the get out of jail free card.

---

 

At level 44 the build up to that point performs extremely well with DPS centered gear for me. Though not being level 50 with expertise, I couldn't gauge how viable it is at that point. I still retain good survivability and my primary goal is to be a PvP tank. Taunting, Guarding and generally causing a ruckus amongst enemies while teammates eat people apart.

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RaiTidR

RaiTidR

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Unstoppable, Unyielding, and Dreadnaut/ or Ravager, Payback, and Obliterate?

 

Really hard choices. Opinions?

 

Unstoppable

 

In all my PvP, I've never felt a talent was more valuable then Unstoppable. This is especially true in Huttball when you use your awesome jump to go upwards and forwards to a platform. Without said talents you'll find yourself immediately popped off by all the classes that have a pushback.

 

In some cases I've encountered a very smart player that waited to use it. But in theses cases if I'm clearing the way I can force push him off and he's gone since he waited. Or he blows his pushback and is surprised to find I'm still there lighting his insides up with my saber.

 

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Unyielding

 

I don't feel this talent is overly necessary for the build I use because I don't struggle with Rage. Some builds (heavy Rage from what I hear) suffer more from Rage issues and this could be very valuable. But if you're PvPing in Soresu form with good Immortal Tree investments, I don't see you encounter rage issues often, if ever.

 

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Payback

 

Payback is novelty... at best it'll be like using a medpack that is 15 levels lower than you are. I could justify this if it were 1 talent point, but 2 points does not seem to be valuable.

 

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Ravager

 

Ravage is actually not a good ability in PvP, you'll find few times where it's useful as opposed to being detrimental. 10s off Force Choke is however valuable. If I was trying to climb the rage tree I'd take Ravager and Malice.

 

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Obliterate

 

I've never had a spec for PvP with this in it, and I can't say anything about it. Though it could be handy if you were briefly immobilized and someone is starting to run away. Though Force Charge would always be better suited if it were available in my opinion.

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DrWhorible

DrWhorible

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Unstoppable

 

In all my PvP, I've never felt a talent was more valuable then Unstoppable. This is especially true in Huttball when you use your awesome jump to go upwards and forwards to a platform. Without said talents you'll find yourself immediately popped off by all the classes that have a pushback.

 

In some cases I've encountered a very smart player that waited to use it. But in theses cases if I'm clearing the way I can force push him off and he's gone since he waited. Or he blows his pushback and is surprised to find I'm still there lighting his insides up with my saber.

 

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Unyielding

 

I don't feel this talent is overly necessary for the build I use because I don't struggle with Rage. Some builds (heavy Rage from what I hear) suffer more from Rage issues and this could be very valuable. But if you're PvPing in Soresu form with good Immortal Tree investments, I don't see you encounter rage issues often, if ever.

 

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Payback

 

Payback is novelty... at best it'll be like using a medpack that is 15 levels lower than you are. I could justify this if it were 1 talent point, but 2 points does not seem to be valuable.

 

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Ravager

 

Ravage is actually not a good ability in PvP, you'll find few times where it's useful as opposed to being detrimental. 10s off Force Choke is however valuable. If I was trying to climb the rage tree I'd take Ravager and Malice.

 

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Obliterate

 

I've never had a spec for PvP with this in it, and I can't say anything about it. Though it could be handy if you were briefly immobilized and someone is starting to run away. Though Force Charge would always be better suited if it were available in my opinion.

 

Obliterate would really be the only reason I'd go into Rage instead of Vengence. It just seemed like an extra charge would be you nigh unpeelable and would help move around the battlefield. Unstoppable definitely sounds like an amazing talent tho.

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Lymain

Lymain

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obliterate is pretty useless as a charge without interceptor(tier 5 rage talent), it only has 10meter range and provides no stun or root on the target.

 

Agreed. Unstoppable is about 100x better than Obliterate, imo.

 

By the way, I'm currently trying a Rage+Soresu build for comparison, and the extra DPS is definitely fun (I seem to hit 300K in warzones almost as easily as I hit 200K with Immortal+Unstoppable), but I am noticably more killable, and I have a harder time carrying mediocre teams to wins. I'm leaning towards going back to my original spec because I think it helps the team more.

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DrWhorible

DrWhorible

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crash takes a 2 second immobolize that already interrupts casts that is off DR (doesn't effect resolve)

 

and turns it into a 2 second stun (basically same effect but also affects DR/resolve)

 

in other words crash is a terrible talent.

 

Immobilize doesn't stop casting.

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