[Official High Resolution Textures Post] Can we get a clarification on this?

[WarheartZero]

Its not false advertising and any legal counsel would laugh in your face if approached about this subject. Every game takes screenshots on the highest resolution possible , both in game and out. Its common practice. Sitting back and trying to alienate one developer is a bit absurd.

 

You were not misled on your purchase as you would have bought the game regardless of the graphics involved. You don't like their response, so you are saying stuff like the gfx were your main reason to purchase when in fact the resolution of the textures probably never even crossed your mind when you bought the game.

 

100% incorrect. But we appreciate your opinion and feedback. Perhaps educating yourself on the issue may better help your insight next time.

Edited January 11, 2012 by WarheartZero

[Sirsri]

Traverse the scene graph, from nearest to farthest - store a list of pointers, and distances to the things that need to be rendered. Count the pointers. You should know, either by chipset, or if you want to do better, past performance on that specific computer (again, not all that complex), how many draw calls you can handle. Then it's a matter of figuring out how far away 'low' res textures will be good enough no matter what. Draw as much as you can in high res close to the player, everything else, low.

 

The elegant solution is to measure this in real time while the player is using the game *right now, if, for example, they have a web browser using 600 MB of ram (and some RAM bandwidth) that may impact SWTOR performance, or might not. Depends on the machine.

 

You shouldn't be transitioning modes and reloading graphics going into cinematic mode. That's just slowing things from a gameplay perspective, and for people who don't have SSD's. You don't seem to be pre-fetching (or caching) cinematics, which you should be doing also.

[JSleeper]

Disappointing.

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain the technical limitations at work. However, leaving the low/medium/high selection in post-beta built in an expectation that each is a meaningful choice. It seems like the engine your chose for the game is not the best one for the task.

 

I hope this will be fixed in some way in the medium-term.

[ToonPhil]

If this is their solution they should remove all the screenshots from the media section of the site and replace them with screenshots that show what the game truly looks like. Then lets see how many copies of the game they sell. Edited January 11, 2012 by ToonPhil

[PjPablo]

LOL @ the medium and high settings being a "UI bug.

 

"What is your favorite setting?"

 

"High. No Medium!"

 

<Poof>

[Vandrago]

Its not false advertising and any legal counsel would laugh in your face if approached about this subject. Every game takes screenshots on the highest resolution possible , both in game and out. Its common practice. Sitting back and trying to alienate one developer is a bit absurd.

 

You were not misled on your purchase as you would have bought the game regardless of the graphics involved. You don't like their response, so you are saying stuff like the gfx were your main reason to purchase when in fact the resolution of the textures probably never even crossed your mind when you bought the game.

 

Only when that option is IN THE GAME, you can't in this game.

[Skylerr]

I have to ask why bioware would "put themselves in a box" by choosing the Hero Engine as their development platform.

 

As it stand, Star Wars: The old Republic, is one of the most visually underwhelming AAA mmo launches of the last few years.

 

Considering existing mmo´s, recent as in Rift, or past as in Lord of the Rings online, even EvE online, consistently put SW: TOR to shame, not to speak of future releases like Guild Wars 2... It´s a shame that Bioware is incapable of doing better with their million dollar development budget.

 

Gameplay wise im happy with SW: TOR, aesthetically and visual wise, im sorely disappointed. The outdated graphics, the poorly optimized engine, and the absence of a "living" "breathing" world with a functional ecology, weather patterns and day/night cycles, really take away from any sense of playing in "game world".

 

Well put... this is pretty much how everyone I know feels about SWTOR.

[LoveBucket]

I'm sorry if I'm not getting it but why can't Bioware do what every other MMO I've played has done? Every game I play, I have the option to go from Low to Ultra/High on textures/models. When I choose the higher option, it *actually* looks like high resolution textures. If I start to take a hit and lag, then I can reduce that option if I choose but most of the time I can run it just fine.

 

I'm on the test server and high looks *nothing* like high resolution. They still look like a blurry/flat mess (the characters not the environment).

 

I know all the technical info about drawing textures, what your pc has to download etc etc etc. I don't think the route that was taken was the right one to take. While yes, it would help with lag issues..there is no way they'll be able to make those textures look better because they're all tiny textures squished into one big texture (at least that was my understanding, sorry if I'm wrong).

 

It sounds to me like they'll have to completely change how they do textures if we're ever going to get a higher resolution option..and I don't see that happening. At this point I think I'm being told that I have to suck it up. I'll just keep avoiding zooming in at all on my character lol.

 

Sigh.

Edited January 11, 2012 by LoveBucket

[Justin-Nico]

Hey guys, I work for a gaming blog and would like to shed a little light on this. Not because I'm an angry fan, but because I am a fan. However, a lot of people are saying stuff like false advertisement and mislead. My point isn't to slander Bioware, but rather light a fire under a few butts. And to educate those who haven't yet purchased SWTOR but might do so under the wrong expectations.

 

What I need are links, screenshots, proof of someone from the team using terms like high quality graphics and such. If you can get it for me, I can get something cranked out by the end of the day.

[mcfabulous]

You have got to be kidding me right? Please show me where it was advertised at all that TOR would have "amazing hi resolution textures!"... Dont worry, Ill wait.

 

 

looks beautiful.

I only wish my game looked 1/2 as good.

Edited January 11, 2012 by mcfabulous

[carnac_fett]

Hey guys, I work for a gaming blog and would like to shed a little light on this. Not because I'm an angry fan, but because I am a fan. However, a lot of people are saying stuff like false advertisement and mislead. My point isn't to slander Bioware, but rather light a fire under a few butts. And to educate those who haven't yet purchased SWTOR but might do so under the wrong expectations.

 

What I need are links, screenshots, proof of someone from the team using terms like high quality graphics and such. If you can get it for me, I can get something cranked out by the end of the day.

 

Just check out literally any of the media from the game's media page.

 

Even content released after the game came out, like the Smuggler vs. Sith Warrior video, uses the high-resolution textures which are apparently only for cutscenes and/or Bioware promotional purposes.

Edited January 11, 2012 by carnac_fett

[Caonimah]

You can call it that all you want, I'll still disagree with your opinion on the matter.

 

Notice LOTRO, a game that came out in 2007!

http://lotrostylist.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/lotro-outfit-8.jpg?w=584&h=474

 

Whats that? A character zoomed in who's armor textures dont look like a pile of mud? Surely this is impossible!

 

Notice Granado Espada! A korean MMO launched in 2007 as well!

http://www.goldicq.com/up_files/image/Article/2010/11/14/61253621.jpg

 

Surely this is a fluke!? I mean how can these companies make character armor this crisp?

 

Notice Rift, an MMO from 2011. From a company that had no games under their belt yet!

http://www.thetanooki.com/wp-content/gallery/rift/warlock_01.jpg

 

SWTOR is not following the standard right now. Its textures dont look nearly as good as they could and are being held back because of client stability issues that might or might never be fixed.

[Folian]

Do they have graphics options for fun then? They are not forcing us to use high so why not have high be high instead of medium.

Simple logic!

[aeterno]

I can see where they're coming from but I hope they put in an "ultra" setting or something for people with machines that can handle it.

 

Heck as the game ages and average PC hardware advances they'll be forced to. WoW updated it's textures etc. etc. This is like TOR is already shipping with a texture upgrade for 3 years from now.

[PopPunkRocker]

It won't stop me from playing as I am truly enjoying the game, but I do agree, I am rather disappointed with the response.

[Zakua]

Game looks great and runs at a steady 40-60fps for me. I will disagree with your opinion.

 

We understand the game looks fine to you. That is your personal pref. and you just so happen to like the way it looks, ok cool.

 

The game is lacking in graphical elements when compared to other games of today. There are reasons as was explained to us in the dev response, they admit it isn't maxed out. We want the option to max it out.

 

So...I appreciate the fact you like the way the game looks as is, have a blast with it and enjoy. Some of us want the higher res textures.

[mcfabulous]

Notice LOTRO, a game that came out in 2007!

http://lotrostylist.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/lotro-outfit-8.jpg?w=584&h=474

 

Whats that? A character zoomed in who's armor textures dont look like a pile of mud? Surely this is impossible!

 

Notice Granado Espada! A korean MMO launched in 2007 as well!

http://www.goldicq.com/up_files/image/Article/2010/11/14/61253621.jpg

 

Surely this is a fluke!? I mean how can these companies make character armor this crisp?

 

Notice Rift, an MMO from 2011. From a company that had no games under their belt yet!

http://www.thetanooki.com/wp-content/gallery/rift/warlock_01.jpg

 

SWTOR is not following the standard right now. Its textures dont look nearly as good as they could and are being held back because of client stability issues that might or might never be fixed.

 

god does rift really look that good? Last i played was on my dell xps 400 lols

might need to renew that

 

It does look half as good, they scaled the textures by 50% Or wait... is that 25% as good..

 

even with forced AA and edited features in the .ini i'd say my game looks 25% as good as that.

Edited January 11, 2012 by mcfabulous

[Kenosos]

 

looks beautiful.

I only wish my game looked 1/2 as good.

 

It does look half as good, they scaled the textures by 50% Or wait... is that 25% as good..

[Rogoo]

This is incredibly disappointing, to be honest. I see no reason to completely remove the option.

 

If somebody wants to use the high textures, then they should be able to. There's no reason to completely remove the option, simply because you all feel the game runs smoother.

 

That should be left up the end-user, not ya'll.

 

Then all you'd get is a wall of posts going: "zomg! my rig (enter some rig specs here) can run BF3 MAXED OUT, but I can't run SWTOR on HIGH cause it LAGS!!!!11111".

 

o.O

 

It is what is it, it has been explained by the devs. Move on.

[Dits]

The marketing images need to be taken down or just like TV adverts they need a captions saying this is not in-game footage

[sputnik_six]

my game looks nothing like this!! false advertising!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuzaxlddWbk

[mcfabulous]

Then all you'd get is a wall of posts going: "zomg! my rig (enter some rig specs here) can run BF3 MAXED OUT, but I can't run SWTOR on HIGH cause it LAGS!!!!11111".

 

o.O

 

It is what is it, it has been explained by the devs. Move on.

 

we already have those posts.. yet we still have **** quality.

 

my game looks nothing like this!! false advertising!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuzaxlddWbk

 

the difference being any in game footage from that is real.

Edited January 11, 2012 by mcfabulous

[SideStrafe]

So... they have made the choice for us? Excuse me, but if we want to run a game with high res textures and it runs poorly, isn't that up to us? I'm a PC gamer for a reason, if I wanted muddy low res textures and lack of options I'd be playing console games.

 

Never remove the freedom of choice regardless of the impact on the end users personal experience. This doesn't just hurt the game, it hurts the industry. Graphically demanding games keep hardware companies in business, advancing technology, evolving the industry and platform we love.

 

In the past people used to create products to be the best that they could be, because it was possible. It's 2012, and we literally now have fewer options than MMO's created in 2004.

 

And yes I appreciate everything this product currently is, and I know how hard it is to work on something like this, you guys deserve medals... however, give us back our freedom of choice, give us options.

[jHats]

http://www.swtor.com/media

 

Im still trying to find where it states "we use high resolution textures in our game".

[BuckyCameron]

Hey everyone, thanks for bearing with us as we investigated the concerns raised here.

 

After investigation, it seems that the confusion here is a combination of a UI issue that's been resolved and a feature that's working as intended, but the reason why it's 'working as intended' needs explanation.

 

First, the UI issue. The preferences menu as it is seen on the Public Test Server for version 1.1 of the game is correct - there are only supposed to be two texture choices, 'Low' and 'High'. This replaces the original three-choice preference of Low/Medium/High because in reality, there was never supposed to be a 'Medium' choice - that was a bug.

 

Here's where we need to explain. As many of you have noted, your character in the game world is rendered using lower resolution textures than inside of cinematic conversation scenes. This was a deliberate decision by the development team. To understand why this was done, I have to briefly talk about MMOs and their engines.

 

In comparison to single player games and other genres of multiplayer online games, MMOs have much higher variability in the number of characters that can be potentially rendered on-screen at the same time. In MMOs, even though most of the time you'll see a relatively small number of characters on screen, there are certain situations in which many more characters will be seen. Some examples of these situations include popular gathering places in-game (in our case, the two fleets), Operations with large teams, and Warzones. In those scenarios the client (and your PC) has to work hard to show off a lot of characters on-screen.

 

During development and testing of The Old Republic, our priorities were to ensure the game looked great and performed well. In testing, we discovered that using our 'maximum resolution' textures on in-game characters during normal gameplay could cause severe performance issues, even on powerful PCs. There were a variety of possible options to help improve performance, but one that was explored and ultimately implemented used what is known as a 'texture atlas'.

 

To understand that I've got to get technical for a minute. When a character in the game is 'seen' by another character - ie, gets close to your field of view - the client has to 'draw' that character for you to see. As the character is 'drawn' for you there are a number of what are known as 'draw calls' where the client pulls information from the repository it has on your hard disk, including textures, and then renders the character. Every draw call that is made is a demand on your PC, so keeping that number of draw calls low per character is important. With our 'maximum resolution' textures a large number of draw calls are made per character, but that wasn't practical for normal gameplay, especially when a large number of characters were in one place; the number of draw calls made on your client would multiply very quickly. The solution was to 'texture atlas' - essentially to put a number of smaller textures together into one larger texture. This reduces the number of draw calls dramatically and allows the client to render characters quicker, which improves performance dramatically.

 

When it comes to cinematic scenes, however, characters are rendered using the higher number of draw calls and maximum resolution textures. This is because in those scenes, we have control over exactly how many characters are rendered and can ensure that the game performs well. The transition between 'atlas textured' characters (out of cinematics) and 'maximum resolution' textures (in cinematics) is mostly hidden by the transition between those two states (when the screen goes black), but obviously it's clear if you pay close attention.

 

In summary; yes, we had a small UI bug that unfortunately caused confusion over how the game is intended to work. The textures you're seeing in the course of normal gameplay are optimized for that mode of play. The textures you're seeing during cinematics are also optimized for that mode of play. They are higher resolution, but that's because we're able to control cinematic scenes to ensure good performance in a way we can't during normal gameplay.

 

We understand the passion and desire for people to see the same textures you see in our cinematic scenes in the main game. Because of the performance issues that would cause for the client, that's not an immediate and easy fix; we need to ensure we're making choices that the majority of our players will be able to benefit from. Having 'atlassed textures' helps performance overall, and that's a very important goal for us.

 

With that said, we've heard your feedback here loud and clear. The development team is exploring options to improve the fidelity of the game, particularly for those of you with high-spec PCs. It will be a significant piece of development work and it won't be an overnight change, but we're listening and we're committed to reacting to your feedback.

 

Why not make an option to "hide" other players so you can only see your character. OR make a private game option.