Private combat logs?

[Yfelsung]

But it doesn't make it less funny.

 

And you know you wanna type in G******IT JENKINS whenever someone screws up in some funny way.

 

That's what a meme is.

 

It makes it slightly less funny for me, but that's because I feed off human emotional suffering.

 

Some people go to the Dominican to bathe in the Caribbean sun.

 

I go to Hati and drink in that misery.

[Tahana]

I wouldn't know. My friends all quit a few hours ago when I showed them that Bioware was deciding to go along with this retarded private log business.

 

But thanks for trying to teach me how to have fun, o great and wise sage of nonsense.

 

Wow for someone that is quitting you sure seem to be posting quite a bit on this topic. I've seen you pull out every troll tactic in the book between this thread and the other one where you announced that you had deleted your level 50 and your alts.

 

And now you've gone so far as to speak for all of your friends letting us know that they quit. Here is the rub..

 

You are making it sound like you have enough friends to be able to field a group to run a flashpoint or heroic. So is it that you are not trusting your friends to pull their weight? Is that your overall issue? What is the overall reasoning why you feel that you need MORE than a personal tracker?

 

In the realm of things, so far in this game I have yet to see a boss not go down in any Heroic or flashpoint. I will admit that when I have gone into a new flashpoint or heroic I have wiped with my group simply because we were unused to specific boss mechanics. Once we figured out what those mechanics were, the boss was beat and we moved on...

 

Your insistent whining on these forums leads me to believe that you are one of those public e-peen strokers who like to belittle others in order to make yourself feel superior as is evidenced by your postings. Instead of focusing on that Bioware is conceding to the demands for a combat tracker and that in itself is a win, you are making a fool of yourself.

[guided_by_voices]

Technically it is, Truga. But the same argument could be used to support the following positions:

 

--Jedi Knights should only have Auto attack, Kick, and Bash

--Binding/Gating should only be available to Force users

--Using your ship to go to another planet should take a half hour (think EQ boats)

--We don't need an AH or Trade Channel! Just use general chat!

 

only thing worse then no information is misrepresenting it. How can you compare combat logs to what you've listed? your comparing apples to oranges.

 

First you will ask for combat logs then threat meters, then deadly boss mods and guess what then we really have wow in space. There is a very popular MMO out there with plenty of mods you can use to help you beat bosses play that one. Once you add mods like this the game is changed forever and you will have an easier time getting pee out of a swimming poll then going back.

 

The game is bran new and people are already asking for help playing it. Stop treating this game like the Mcdonalds drive thru and and go in sit down and experience it the nice steak dinner it really can be.

[AlpsStranger]

Your insistent whining on these forums leads me to believe that you are one of those public e-peen strokers who like to belittle others in order to make yourself feel superior as is evidenced by your postings. Instead of focusing on that Bioware is conceding to the demands for a combat tracker and that in itself is a win, you are making a fool of yourself.

 

I'm not making the mistake that Truga does. He tries to be reasonable and he still gets tarred and feathered as an "elitist." Hell, he even takes the same positions you guys do, but that's not good enough.

 

You want our kind removed from your little gated game of paddycake, and so we're leaving. What's the problem?

 

Yeah, I'm making a little noise on my way out. That's my $60 worth.

[zootzoot]

No, people are idiots, people are dbags specially when they remain anonymous, people have very subjective varying expectations of others ... for this reason alone I am completely for an optional and personal combat log. This has to be one of the very few posts by Georg where he actually makes sense and I completely agree with. Kudos to him and I hope they stick to their principles on this.

 

BTW, players have been raiding and kickin the games *** in the game already. Thats undeniable proof right there that a combat log is not needed (as if the countless other MMO's out there without one werent enough). The only arguments in support of the combat log and recount are the very reason a combat log should not be in the game; (sadly) people are just ACHING to start looking at others DPS and judge them for it. That negativity does not need to be brought into the game, we have enough of it already. Has nothing to do with whether or not I group up with you unless there is an unremovable name tag saying <DPS Judge> over your head at all times.

 

P.S: There will always be a chat going on in the game. Im sure you'll be more than able to tell your teamates your DPS as frequently and often as you'd like. If you or they have trust issues then ... well ... thats a completely separate problem you should take care of before you group up.

 

So after a wipe it's bad if I want to see a log of what happened? Not just what I did but when the Tanks popped CD's and how much damage the DPS'ers were doing. I've been in groups where the Boss seems to be dying very, very slowly and it's taxing my resources as a healer. I'd like to see which DPS is not performing and I see nothing wrong with that.

 

I also like logs because when a Tank dies and he calls me out for not healing I'd like to point out that he was standing in the fire or that he never used CD's during a high damage phase. If you're worried about someone mocking you either you're not very good or you're a delicate flower and maybe shouldn't be playing MMO's.

 

If someone's a jacktard in a PuG you drop group and put the player on ignore. Simple.

[AlpsStranger]

The game is bran new and people are already asking for help playing it. Stop treating this game like the Mcdonalds drive thru and and go in sit down and experience it the nice steak dinner it really can be.

 

Except that it's a hamburger that somebody is charging steak price for. As if that wasn't bad enough every time I ask for cheese some lactose intolerant person says that it would be unfair for me to have it.

[ironix]

So after a wipe it's bad if I want to see a log of what happened? Not just what I did but when the Tanks popped CD's and how much damage the DPS'ers were doing. I've been in groups where the Boss seems to be dying very, very slowly and it's taxing my resources as a healer. I'd like to see which DPS is not performing and I see nothing wrong with that.

 

I also like logs because when a Tank dies and he calls me out for not healing I'd like to point out that he was standing in the fire or that he never used CD's during a high damage phase. If you're worried about someone mocking you either you're not very good or you're a delicate flower and maybe shouldn't be playing MMO's.

 

If someone's a jacktard in a PuG you drop group and put the player on ignore. Simple.

 

Exactly this.

[ironix]

Except that it's a hamburger that somebody is charging steak price for. As if that wasn't bad enough every time I ask for cheese some lactose intolerant person says that it would be unfair for me to have it.

 

I love you.

[AlpsStranger]

I love you.

 

<3 Right back at you.

[Vydor_HC]

Yah, I not in favor of the combat logs giving group wide info either. Being able to analyze my play is good enough.

 

If the tool was used in an inclusion manner it would be one thing, but the tool is used as an exclusionary weapon to kick people from groups, like nearly everyone in support of this tool has posted. They need a way to have an excuse to kick people out rather than working together as a team to solve a problem. In the end, it just leads to bad blood, and unnecessary.

[Truga]

Yes, that's right, a lack of combat log data has put an entire guild on my "do not group with" list because it would be like playing the slots otherwise.

 

And I see no problem with that. If the people who were causing problems didn't step up, it's a bad guild. If the raid leader can't get people from his own guild to step up and say "guys, I suck today", they're bad. No other way I can see this. Oh, also, lag is a generic in-guild code talk for "I'm having a terrible day today, go ahead without me", if someone said this, and they didn't leave they should've been kicked.

 

I used to play EVE online. Our alliance had about active 300-400 players before I stopped really playing. We theorycrafted our asses off, and we then performed as best as we could. If someone cocked up, they'd either say "sorry guys, I just fail today", and we moved on, and he tried harder next time. And that's a game where if you die, your ship blows up, and things you had on it get looted by the enemy, and a mistake by one pilot could mean 300 dead people and getting set back for days. We never had a problem with people stepping up, even in such situations.

 

I quit shortly after we won our 3rd alliance tournament. I hear they're still doing pretty darn well. EVE has no damage meters or anything, but is arguably the most competitive MMO, becaues the stakes for losing are ridiculusly high.

 

Maybe it's just a community type thing...

[Tahana]

I'm not making the mistake that Truga does. He tries to be reasonable and he still gets tarred and feathered as an "elitist." Hell, he even takes the same positions you guys do, but that's not good enough.

 

You want our kind removed from your little gated game of paddycake, and so we're leaving. What's the problem?

 

Yeah, I'm making a little noise on my way out. That's my $60 worth.

 

I never said I was for or against combat tracking devices. Just because I call you on the carpet for your infantile behavior doesn't mean I am on one side or the other. In all of my posts even in beta which have since been deleted.. All I have said that if this game wants to be anything more than a theme park, bioware will eventually have to cave into the raiding population and include combat logs and trackers.

 

I have never publicly stated an opinion for or against in this game. I have stated what stance I took in a previous MMO that didn't have those tools.

 

Personally I consider this a check in the win column for people wanting tracking information, because at least some type of tracking will be included in the game and people can now start checking their performance and optimizing rotations. It hasn't even been a full 24 hours since this announcement was made, and the overall outcome of what that entails is unknown.

 

You've made your concerns available for bioware to see, if that tracking is written to a log file there will be some enterprising individual I am sure who will be able to make some device that will allow this information to be combined in some fashion. Of that I am certain.

[guided_by_voices]

Maybe it's just a community type thing...

 

it is and not entirely the gamers fault. it wow's, they have turned MMO's into a race to the finish rather than the walk in the park it should be.

[AlpsStranger]

I never said I was for or against combat tracking devices. Just because I call you on the carpet for your infantile behavior doesn't mean I am on one side or the other.

 

I feel that my assumption was reasonable given what I had seen of you. I'll say nothing more on that point.

 

In all of my posts even in beta which have since been deleted.. All I have said that if this game wants to be anything more than a theme park, bioware will eventually have to cave into the raiding population and include combat logs and trackers.

 

This is trivially true. Admitting this proves only that you aren't crazy.

 

I have never publicly stated an opinion for or against in this game. I have stated what stance I took in a previous MMO that didn't have those tools.

 

Personally I consider this a check in the win column for people wanting tracking information, because at least some type of tracking will be included in the game and people can now start checking their performance and optimizing rotations. It hasn't even been a full 24 hours since this announcement was made, and the overall outcome of what that entails is unknown.

 

That was only half the issue. Subtle DPS freeriding is a pretty big issue when you can't track it.

 

You've made your concerns available for bioware to see, if that tracking is written to a log file there will be some enterprising individual I am sure who will be able to make some device that will allow this information to be combined in some fashion. Of that I am certain.

 

They're going to do whatever they damn well please, of that I have no doubt. After seeing the cute little italicized "your" I'm pretty sure they're just going to be like "Hurr derr Voice acting" and be shocked when this all goes down in flames in a few months.

Edited January 11, 2012 by AlpsStranger

[Ljungen]

And I see no problem with that. If the people who were causing problems didn't step up, it's a bad guild. If the raid leader can't get people from his own guild to step up and say "guys, I suck today", they're bad. No other way I can see this. Oh, also, lag is a generic in-guild code talk for "I'm having a terrible day today, go ahead without me", if someone said this, and they didn't leave they should've been kicked.

 

I used to play EVE online. Our alliance had about active 300-400 players before I stopped really playing. We theorycrafted our asses off, and we then performed as best as we could. If someone cocked up, they'd either say "sorry guys, I just fail today", and we moved on, and he tried harder next time. And that's a game where if you die, your ship blows up, and things you had on it get looted by the enemy, and a mistake by one pilot could mean 300 dead people and getting set back for days. We never had a problem with people stepping up, even in such situations.

 

I quit shortly after we won our 3rd alliance tournament. I hear they're still doing pretty darn well. EVE has no damage meters or anything, but is arguably the most competitive MMO, becaues the stakes for losing are ridiculusly high.

 

Maybe it's just a community type thing...

Just jumping in to say <3 to a EvE Online player.

Been watching pretty much every alliance tournament last year or so and it´s awesome to watch if you understand the game.

[Truga]

it is and not entirely the gamers fault. it wow's, they have turned MMO's into a race to the finish rather than the walk in the park it should be.

 

But that's exactly the thing. It's a race, and you need to work with your team to win it. Why would you lie about your performance?

[Devorin_Sargothi]

Yah, I not in favor of the combat logs giving group wide info either. Being able to analyze my play is good enough.

 

If the tool was used in an inclusion manner it would be one thing, but the tool is used as an exclusionary weapon to kick people from groups, like nearly everyone in support of this tool has posted. They need a way to have an excuse to kick people out rather than working together as a team to solve a problem. In the end, it just leads to bad blood, and unnecessary.

 

In this case, it isn't the tool that's the problem. Auto-kicking someone who's not doing quite the dps you think he should is just bad form.

 

Once you see there's a problem, the right thing to do is ask what's up. They might be gearing for a spec they just started. They might never have played an mmo and need to be taught the fundamentals. They might be a mooch who's watching youtube while they play. They might have a crappy connection.

 

Without the tool, you're far less likely to know there's a problem to be addressed.

[AlpsStranger]

I quit shortly after we won our 3rd alliance tournament. I hear they're still doing pretty darn well. EVE has no damage meters or anything, but is arguably the most competitive MMO, becaues the stakes for losing are ridiculusly high.

 

Maybe it's just a community type thing...

 

EVE is a different beast though. It's not a WoW clone. My arguments for metering and such are all applicable in the WoW clone space.

 

As someone who played EVE for all of a few weeks I wouldn't dare go toe-to-toe with you in any discussion about that game

[Sendrel]

They're going to do whatever they damn well please, of that I have no doubt. After seeing the cute little italicized "your" I'm pretty sure they're just going to be like "Hurr derr Voice acting" and be shocked when this all goes down in flames in a few months.

 

It certainly appears so.

[Truga]

Just jumping in to say <3 to a EvE Online player.

Been watching pretty much every alliance tournament last year or so and it´s awesome to watch if you understand the game.

 

I must say I've never participated in the actual tourney fights, because I consider myself way too clumsy to actually perform as well as some of my alliance mates do in combat. I have spent countless hours on the test server with them though, and in EFT, theorycrafting different setups...

 

And it was ridiculously fun. I considered resubbing for the last tourney just to join them for this part.

[Vydor_HC]

In this case, it isn't the tool that's the problem. Auto-kicking someone who's not doing quite the dps you think he should is just bad form.

 

Once you see there's a problem, the right thing to do is ask what's up. They might be gearing for a spec they just started. They might never have played an mmo and need to be taught the fundamentals. They might be a mooch who's watching youtube while they play. They might have a crappy connection.

 

Without the tool, you're far less likely to know there's a problem to be addressed.

 

-nods-

 

I understand your point, but it's that "bad form" that becomes the norm. Thus making the overall gaming experience bad for ALOT of players. Not because their performance is necessary poor, it may be, but because of the way it is analyzed and used against them. Using the tool to destroy the community takes place far more than using it to build the community. I wish that weren't true, but I've been around these games long enough to know that it is.

[ironix]

it is and not entirely the gamers fault. it wow's, they have turned MMO's into a race to the finish rather than the walk in the park it should be.

 

EvE Online is a walk in the park? =O

 

And I'm sorry, but the first image that comes to mind with respect to "walk in the park" and an MMO is something like, oh, Hello Kitty...

[Truga]

EvE Online is a walk in the park? =O

Indeed it isn't.

 

https://live.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c_c.jpg

 

I'm just going to leave this here. It's not exactly presented in the correct way, but you'll get the idea :V

[guided_by_voices]

EvE Online is a walk in the park? =O

 

And I'm sorry, but the first image that comes to mind with respect to "walk in the park" and an MMO is something like, oh, Hello Kitty...

 

do you think you see more of the park running through it or walking through it?

 

maybe they should remove leveling? lets just all start at max level and go right to killing bosses as fast as possible. ever consider that maybe if the content took longer to get through they would have more time to produce better content?

[ironix]

Indeed it isn't.

 

https://live.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c_c.jpg

 

I'm just going to leave this here. It's not exactly presented in the correct way, but you'll get the idea :V

 

Oh I know, but he was initially quoting you in reference to a game that doesn't have combat logs and then saying that. I guess it wouldn't be exactly clear to someone not following the thread. =p

 

I've been playing EvE online off and on since 2005 or so. Never quite got into PvP apart from having my expensive (hundreds of millions of ISK) ships gibbed by frigates using energy neuts. =p

 

That'll teach me to suddenly want to take a new ship out 'exploring' now and then. Actually no it won't. I'll probably waste a few hundred million more doing foolish things I shouldn't. lol