I am in BM Supercommando and Combat Tech gear head to toe. My health was 22k, 40% shield absorption, and defense over 8300 before 1.2. I am a "pure" Shield-spec. After the 1.2 patch, I noticed I was missing around 1k in health and my shield only absorbs 31%. Due to the increase of DPS for expertise and the reduction of the traits that make me a tank, does it not stand to reason that I am more squishy after 1.2 than before given I can't mitigate as much damage, I have less health, and Maras/Sents are hitting even harder than they did before? I decided to run a bunch of WZs today. Two Maras kill me in 3 seconds flat. One by himself in another WZ took about 6 seconds. I was one of the only Troopers in WZs from what I could see, except for one Heal-spec Commando that I see on a regular basis. I have seen a drastic increase in people playing Mara/Sent toons since 1.2, to say the least. I decided to see if it was the same in the 10-49 WZs so I logged on my new Sentinel and, sure enough, after over 10 WZs I did not see a single heavy armor class toon...nothing but robes surrounded me in every single WZ (Sages and Sents). On the other side, almost all were Maras and Sorcs with a spatter of Operatives and Juggs. I am seeing direct cause an effect from 1.2. Heavies are going to the way side (except for healers) and Sent/Mara toons are being either unshelved or created to take advantage of the awesomeness that they have become. To play a tank in PvP after 1.2 is pointless unless you have 1, perhaps 2, competent healers dedicated to you. Even then, why play a tank with almnost no DPS and cloth for damage mitigation when a Sent/Mara can tank just as well (if not better with their defensive CDs), with less health, and WAY more DPS? I've started my new Sentinel. It's not what I desire; it is a means to an end so that I do not get facerolled the moment I charge into the fray of a WZ. BW has made it obvious they want most people to play Sent/Mara toons in WZs. Who am I to argue their logic?

You killed us, Bioware, and you have proven you have no love for classic tanks or have any respect for what their intended purpose is. You nerfed our health with 1.2 (I am missing over 1K in health). You nerfed our shielding (I am down from 40% to 31%). Those of us who actually play Shield-spec have no DPS (which is expected, we are tanks not a Mara/Sent) but we should be compensated with being able to take an atrocious beating. You have made our class more squishy than a Sorc without a bubble. Everyone out DPSs us, as expected, but when I see a Sorc being able to take a WAY better beating than I can (ANY Sorc, not just one great player), then there is obviously a problem. You have made playing a Shield-spec Vanguard unplayable in PvP. If that was your goal, congratulations, you succeeded. The only purpose for playing my Vanguard now is PvE. Thank you for removing half of the playable content from my character. I am off to make a Sentinel to PvP with since it is apparent you want anyone who wants to stand a chance in PvP to play this class (or it's sister class the Marauder). Here's to hoping 1.3 allows BW to pull its collective head out of its backside and actually give tanks the ability to do just that - TANK. (In case I have to spell that out for you, it means being able to take a beating by mitigating and absorbing damage better than ANY other class.)

/signed

I think 1-hour makes the point (very well). I see way too many people quit, rejoin, quit immediately, rejoin, quit immediately, rejoin, then quit for good. Being in the same WZ three times during the match is rather ridiculous. And we all know what these people are doing. To help those of us that stay dedicated to playing the WZ all the way through, I think a lockout is a great way to keep people from intentionally leaving early. I'd even say 30 minutes, but no less because people should feel the pain when they abandon a WZ because it's not going their way, or what have you. And, I thought about the bracket thing after I posted. You are right, especially on low-pop servers or times when it is not peak play. Perhaps there could be a way to have three brackets *if* there are enough people to facilitate having three brackets. If not, obviously the 10-49 bracket would have to be used.

I would like to make a few recommendations to warzones for the next big patch. Having developed two Battlemasters (a sorc and a 'guard), I hope that my suggestions give at least some credibility to the level of play I have had in warzones and that I am not some "noob" with no experience coming up with random ideas. These are the changes I'd like to see made: 1. Punish those who leave WZs early with a 1-hour lockout. I can hear all the QQ now, "But, that isn't faaair! What if I want to play in a different WZ with my buddies right now!?!?" Yeah, that is the problem with all of these WZs now; you log in, see your team is not uber in the first 30 seconds of play (or fail to unqueue properly when trying to hook up with your friends or guild mates), and then leave the WZ early, which puts everyone else you left behind at serious disadvantage until other players are able to queue in. This is a serious issue on low-population servers, but it is a problem everywhere because any degree of less personnel than the opposing team will create a significant disadvantage. If someone TRULY has to leave the WZ due to guild business, real life matters, etc. then they should have no problem accepting a 1-hour lockout from WZ activity that will help keep players from leaving pre-maturely. If they messed their own queue up while trying to enter with buddies or guild mates, that is their fault and they should have to suck it up, play the 15 minutes of WZ suck, and then regroup after it is done. 2. Go back to the original method of comm rewards, but give the winning team a bit extra. I don't enter WZs to lose. When I enter, I play to win and I expect to be rewarded accordingly. I am often a top medal winner, but the rewards are ridiculously low if my team loses. Since I cannot control my entire team, we are obviously bound to lose (sometimes a LOT). This leaves those of us that are more or less forced to pay in PUGs against pre-mades at a significant disadvantage when it comes to gearing up with WZ comms. It's more or less the same principle of the rich getting richer while the poor stay poor. Would you pay the losers in the Super Bowl less than the winners? No, you just give the winners a trophy, maybe a bonus, and everyone earns the pay they were contracted to receive simply by playing the game. My suggestion is to go back to the original comm distribution method and simply give the winners a few more commendations. Losers should not be punished, the winners should be rewarded a little bit more. 3. Make another bracket besides the 10-49 and 50. While I have not played in a 10-49 WZ in quite some time, I remember how frustrating it was to be level 10-20 and getting stomped by level 45-49 with absolutely no chance. It's kinda like any class going up against a Mara/Sent 1v1 after 1.2. (Sorry, had to get that jab in there, because you all know it's true. *grin*). I suggest making a 10-30, 31-49, and 50 set of brackets help offset the skill/gear differences from new WZ players from those who are in the upper echelon of game play. 4. Bot-prevention: Make an in-game pop-up window to challenge the player before they leave the starting point to prove they are a real person and not a bot. Bots...I am seeing these bastards everywhere in WZs now and it is very obvious. There is really only one way to defeat these guys and that is to have a pop-up window quickly show on your screen every time someone is at the starting point that forces the user to press one of four or five options that are represented as buttons. The challenge question can be a simple math question like, "What is 3+5?" and the buttons would have have numbers on them with only one right answer. I figured math would be the easiest since it is universal instead of a letter or word problem since it might cause issues for non-English speakers. The problem and buttons would all be RNG and the position of the right answer would always be different on the button panel. A simple math problem would take less than 2 seconds for someone to answer, so the speed of them getting back into the game would be negligible. You can also have the problem box randomly appear somewhere on the screen to help minimize bot countermeasures. If the person gets the question wrong, they are booted from the WZ instantly and get no credit for any time spent in the WZ. They would not, however, be locked out like those who leave the WZ intentionally. Yes, I know there are a LOT of stupid people in the world that would invariably get 1+2 wrong. Are those the kind of people you want on your WZ team anyway? Feel free to bash my ideas. I am sure you have your own on how BW can improve certain features of the WZs so that we can all have a better experience when we are playing these maps.

Trying looking up the planet called "Ilum". It's this frozen PvP wasteland where all of us big kids hang out. I 1v1 people a lot in off-peak hours. Hope that helps you out.

I am surprised I have never seen it before today. I didn't see him force cloak before he cc'd me...I must have either blinked or had a spat of lag that prevented me from seeing him vanish and reappear. Regardless, that's an impressive trick! Well played, Assassin...well played.

Cedarghost, while I agree with most of what you say...my whole thing about wanting to play a tank was inspired by wanting to be the super star in Huttball...being that tank the healers could throw a couple of heals on as we rushed to the end zone for a score. But, when you have over 80% of the opposing side playing DPS classes, mainly Marauders/Assassins, that can cut you down in a few seconds (regardless of how much health and defense you have), all the skill and tactics playing Huttball the way it is meant to be played (passing the ball, protecting the carrier, using Sage/Sorc pulls to help advance the ball faster, using Force Leap to do the same, etc.) do nobody one bit of good while we are waiting behind the force field for 10+ seconds as the opposing team makes another score since they are unopposed because they killed your whole team in the span of 30 seconds. As much as I wish being a Vanguard actually mattered, my "guard" ability doesn't do a whole lot of good when there is a Marauder or two wiping the floor with the person I am trying to "protect" within a couple of seconds.

My three in order of how much I hate going against them: 1. Marauders To date, I have never beat a Marauders 1v1. In fact, I can't think of a single time I have even gotton one down to 50% of his health before I was dead. And, I'm sure those were the "crappy" players behind that Marauder. 2. Tank-spec'd Assassins I have held my own against Assassins I meet face to face. They usually turn tail and run when they get low on health if I am able to put up a good fight. If they get the jump on me, I'm done...I just stand there and let them have their kill. It's rather pointless to smash keys when you play a class that has pretty much has no escape ability. 3. Powertechs/Operatives Powertechs/Operatives. Good god these guys hit fast and hard if spec'd properly. I was just commenting in another thread how me and a guild mate ran into one in Ilum today and how he killed us both in under 8 seconds and combined we barely took 30% of his heath before he dispatched us both. Yeah, we're just newbs and the Op class is perfectly balanced. Pft. I should add I am a tank-spec'd Vanguard with over 22k health and over 8300 defense in mostly BM gear and a shield rate over of 40%. I'm sure you, the l33tness, run around in dancer attire without any mods/armor/enhancements in any piece killing everyone in 1 second flat with your death ray of uberness because you are just that awesome and it's the player, not the class, that is awesome sauce.

You're right, Daxun. I'll be happy when we can dual spec so I can keep my tank spec for PvE then make a hybrid spec for PvP. I've done both specs many times over in WZs. I do notice I hit a bit harder with a hybrid spec, but I get wiped WAY faster (especially since ~70% of the WZs I am in don't have healers on my team to keep me on my feet when I have 2-3 Marauders/Assassins ripping me to shreds. The lack of "tankiness" and lack of DPS compared to classes like a tank-spec'd Assassin with DPS gear is making me rethink playing a Vanguard and starting an Assassin or Marauder. They seems to be able to take as much, and sometimes more, punishment that a real tank class can yet have all the DPS in the world.

I was messing around in Ilum today when I came across an Assassin. We start going at it, both of us got to about half health. Then I saw him pull a stunt I've never seen any other Assassin do - He cc'd me and instantly started to Seethe right in front of me, regaining almost all of his health before the cc wore off. (I had already used my Tenacity and couldn't break t...grrrr!) I never saw him go into stealth and then come back out of it, which would kinda explain what he did...maybe... but he didn't. He just cc'd me and instantly went to Seething. Maybe I've just ever seen anyone do this...maybe every Assassin knows this valuable skill set but rarely uses it. I was under the impression that everyone had a lengthy mandatory cool down period before they could use their recover ability after they stopped their last combat action (or the last action was imposed on them by another player). What is the cool down to use the recover ability...15...20 seconds? At any rate, I know it's not meant to be instant. I was wondering if this was an exploit of any given Assassin talent, or if this is by design to give the Assassin class an advantage. If it is by design, is there any other class that can cc and instantly use their recovery ability like that?

This! +++++++++ ++++++ ...and, +! /signed

OP - You must be talking about Juggs, because I often see them at the top of the WZ charts for most damage done (if the WZ isn't ladden with operatives or sorcerers). I really suck at DPS because I am a pure tank spec (Vanguard) and I use Ion Cell all the time. My goal is to last a long time in any given scenario (hi, I'm a friggin' tank), but to say all tanks out-DPS the DPS classes, that's reaching pretty far. For instance, today me and a guild mate went out to Ilum to collect armaments. We saw an Operative and went to kill him. I popped my Crit buff, my power relic, and my Aim stim (which also gives power). All of this stuff gives me about a 15-second ranged damage that goes over 10K. I started going through my typical PvP attack routine on the Operative only to find myself dead inside of 4 seconds. The guild mate that was with me died in about 3 seconds. Seriously, we were aghast at the speed he killed us both and that instantly became the topic for about five minutes in guild chat. I have 22k health (mostly BM gear...a couple pieces of Champ with 56/58 mods/enhancements from OPS drops) and over 8300 defense. My guild mate has over 17k health...not sure what his defense is. The Operator destroyed us both in under 8 seconds flat. We're not newbs. Our gear does not suck...DPS classes are working just fine, thank you. Oh, did I mention he barely lost roughly 30% of his ~16k in health before he dispatched both of us? Can someone please point me to the T7 tank gear please, because my mostly T3 gear is obviously made of paper? Now, how about tanks being able to mitigate and absorb damage? This Operative is wielding a friggin' knife...against my HEAVY armor and decent health/defense numbers. Does it makes sense that some knife wielder can cut through two players with a total of over 39k health in roughly 8 seconds at the same time...while only having 30% of his health stripped from two guys going full assault on him? You want to talk about class balance, start with the DPS that destroy everything in sight in seconds yet "tank" better than an actual tank. I am also directing my QQ at you, Marauders/Sentinels...who are apparently getting buffed in 1.2. (Really, BW...really!?) It almost makes me wonder why we should even have a "tank" class at all when the DPS classes seemingly tank better (absorb and mitigate more incoming damage) than we do and do WAY more DPS to a single target than we could every dream of. OK, I'm done QQing. Cheers!

My sarcasm detector is not working today, so I can't tell if you are serious or if you are being sardonic. Over the course of outfitting two toons with full Centurion, then Champion, then BM kit, I have never had a single Champion token drop from any of my bags. I guess I'm just unlucky.

What did you not understand when I said the reward is the team winning (comms, valor, exp, credits) that come with it (compared to losing), which can only happen if all players perform their roles. I specifically stated that it is important that all people get credit for taking down OPFOR in places like Ilum. I was also very specific, several times, that giving "kill" credit for indirect help is not a good measure to give credit in that particular stat column. I have given *zero* indication that I am in any favor of not seeing people properly rewarded for their contribution, regardless of their role in a warzone. You, obviously, fail at reading and comprehension. Please, go back and actually read what I wrote, several times, and then reply again. Thanks. Healers keep killers alive so they can kill. That is not killing, that is healing. You would not ask for credit as a pr0nstar just because you watch pr0n, would you? I mean, seriously, people should get direct credit for their direct actions under those specific stat columns. Just as they should not give damage-do'ers heal credit for being healed, they should not give us healers kill credit for kills we do not make. If they want to giev us more recognition, give us another stat column that pertains to something only a healer can do. I do not want my healer lumped in the samn column as a DPS, let alone have MORE kills than they have, when that is not what I am actively doing. We healers get credit for healing. We also get credit for the damage we do and the kills me make. DPS is getting short-changed by only getting credit for the kills/damage they do...yet they contribute to the win/loss just like healers do. So how can you justify doing something for one role and not both roles when they both contribute to the overall success (or failure) of any given team?