braffin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You can’t balance a game around PvP and PvE at the same time with the same damage and healing multipliers for both. (Better explanation in the video) This, right here. What I expect ends up happening is that it becomes primarily balanced around PvP and PvE just kind of adjusts to make it work. Which, for a lack of a better word, sucks. The entire game then becomes balanced around making PvP work. And not warzone PvP, but the small 3v3 (or whatever bracket(s) gets introduced). You can't effectively balance a game around warzones, small scale PvP, and PvE, when all using the same skills/attacks/abilities. But they'll try to do it, since it's the most cost-effective and time-effective way of doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainscarbeard Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 -Have no rewards or end of the season titles for arena. Have leaderboards to show the teams and their ratings. Arenas should be played for the sake of competition. Not having end of the season rewards or titles would cut down on the cheating, account sharing, and politics that go on in PvP. I have friends that make tens of thousands of dollars every arena season selling gladiator and rank 1 in World of Warcraft, the only reason anyone pays that kind of money is because they get to keep something after the season is over. Not too many people are going to pay big money for someone to play their account if there is no reward they get to keep. (Again better explanation in the video, can’t seem to get the point across in text) You just nailed it here. PVP should be for the sake of PVP. Making people waste a bunch of time for the best PVP gear in a gear centric game is bad design. Gear should be easy to get and if there are rewards for arena it should be cosmetic stuff that those of us who compete and win at life don't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBuddhist Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How SW:TOR arena's should be done? By not making them. LoL is that away----->. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niktorak Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have to agree, no rewards, just fun, that was the main reason why I played Arena in WoW it was for FUN, to me it wasn't about being the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPagano Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I agree with the need for some type of arena system. As for the comments about certain brackets being composition-dependent like in WoW, I would urge you to do some statistical analysis to back up that claim. I have two friends who still play arenas very competitively. I had made this complaint to them once in the past when mentioning why I stopped keeping up with it. They pointed out that this is not true at the highest ranks. Interestingly enough, you find almost every combination in 3s at the highest rank bracket. Ultimately, it comes down to coordination and teamwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frallansson Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 great ideas, Listen to this guy Bioware he knows what he is talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xEnfeeble Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I agree with it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just make it 4v4 and awar same rewards as warzones so people can play what they want and unique titles. add same gear to world PvP aswell. Then you can have wellfare gear on a pvp aspect of your choosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenReafer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 That is your oppinion. If so many people loves world PvP so much, they would be doing it. The Truth.. Also would like to see the articles stating they wil never add arena, If so I'll play for the story some WZs and move to GW2 along with tons of other people... New MMORPGs have issues staying alive, so I really doubt they will ignore the opportunity to gain some exposure as an esport as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenReafer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Also that is another thing. Arenas have 0 place in star wars lore, canon and non canon. (The pit fight is episode 6 so doesn't count). Its a galactic war, which is why huttball is not fought against the opposing faction. Empire would not be playing games with republic period. LucasArts would definitely have a word to say about that, and so would star wars fans. How does a small scale battle have zero place in SW lore? I seem to remember several small 2v2 type fights... Ahh well tired of your comments..you came here looking for an argument and find it disrespectful for someone to argue with you LOL. But Im loving the bumps on the thread. Make it grow keep it at the top and maybe we will get an answer that they are looking at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenReafer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The community that actually prefers canon is very, very strong. In no way would fans, nor LucasArts sport the idea that during the galactic wars, Jedi and Sith, empire and republic are playing games with each other. LucasArts has the final say in everything in this game. I just don't see them being for it, no matter how many Hutt undertones you throw into it. You may not care about lore, but a lot of people do. My arguments never were weak, they are compounding onto the fact that there won't be arenas, for various reasons. There are multiple reasons why they shouldn't exist, many very good ones, and not very many that they should, other than one single crowd, that may actually find world PvP just as enjoyable as it was in vanilla wow. Huttball is part of the Lore? People are worried Arena will bring lots of QQ yeah? have they read the pvp forums and seen the QQ already? Can't understand guys who argue against a feature that they don't need to participate in. Are they worried they will have low epeen when they get stomped or something? I just can't see why. I never play a game and say please don't add a feature that can make others happy cause I don't like it and have an opinion that it ruined a previous game with no facts or statistics to back it up. Post some facts that Arena ruined wow some numbers of decline since it was introduced please. I'm pretty sure the subs kept going up. I'd get bored of world Pvp real fast and prefer small quick battles. Did some thinking with the resource system would arena games be faster or longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kursyu Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 YouTube video for those who want something to listen to:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzz1EJX3p_Q I do think SWTOR needs to have some sort of small scale PvP that can be played competitively. Competitive PvP will do wonders for the game and attract more players + be a big time sink for hard core players like myself. Here are a few things I would do to make a good competitive environment. -Only have 1 arena bracket, 3v3. 2v2 is too individualistic and is very comp vs. comp due to the low amount of options when playing the bracket. 4v4 wouldn’t really work; it would lead to really slow games of 2 healers and 2 dps or really quick healer zergs with 3 dps on one target. 5v5 is too zergy and is never really respected in any sort of competitive environment, it is very comp based because the games are so fast. Balancing the game around 1 bracket would lead to a much more balanced and competitive environment. -Balance the game around 3v3 arena, 99% of the time if something is balanced in small scale pvp it will translate to large scale pvp. If something is overpowered or underpowered in PvE have a bolster or nerf system that raises or lowers damage/healing that only works in dungeons/raids. You can’t balance a game around PvP and PvE at the same time with the same damage and healing multipliers for both. (Better explanation in the video) -Have no rewards or end of the season titles for arena. Have leaderboards to show the teams and their ratings. Arenas should be played for the sake of competition. Not having end of the season rewards or titles would cut down on the cheating, account sharing, and politics that go on in PvP. I have friends that make tens of thousands of dollars every arena season selling gladiator and rank 1 in World of Warcraft, the only reason anyone pays that kind of money is because they get to keep something after the season is over. Not too many people are going to pay big money for someone to play their account if there is no reward they get to keep. (Again better explanation in the video, can’t seem to get the point across in text) -Make functional arena maps, no raised platforms where knockbacks will be annoying, no RNG elements of any kind, no silly mechanics. Make functional maps that will allow for competitive play. Be sure to let me know what you guys think below. I definitely want some type of arena PVP. This is pretty much what this game needs. Balancing around only 3v3 is perfect. No silly rewards for win-trading and all that other crap. Honestly, agree on all points. Probably the first thread since closed beta that actually deserves some Dev attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aghar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Unpopular? It had prolly more pople doing PvP than this game has total subs. yeah at inception, right now arena is the least played gametype, hell even blizzard has said it was a huge mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenReafer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Man, you guys don't know how ol George and LucasArts do business when it comes to star wars, his baby. To him, his lore> over any of us. That is fact. Fact??? lol man. I can't leave him alone cause his posts are just so weird and he acts like he is the authority on lore and how the company runs. Do you know George or something? You work for LucasArts? Do you really believe he is heavily involved in this game? Since we are just making assumptions. I'm sure he just lent his name and his company handled the work. I also think with the whole fighting and war theme in Star Wars any PvP formats would be welcome. The arenas could be a Hutt thing, seems like something they would do. Zappa please just stop making things up. People obviously want Arena. I'm also sorry you feel my posts have anamosity towards you. I take no offence to things said in a forum, and don't have time to address my posts with dear..... Maybe stop taking it so personal and take it as a game and allow people to ask/request for a feature that will keep them enterained past the levelign stage of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harkens Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Arena as an alternative game mode to warzone? Sure, why not. Arena as a requirement to play in order to buy gear? No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPunx Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So let me ask, why did the WoW PvPers here leave WoW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So let me ask, why did the WoW PvPers here leave WoW? Because they want to play a game that's the same as WoW just with a different name so they can feel like it's something new when it's really not? What other logical reason is there for them wanting things exaclty the same as WoW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 yeah at inception, right now arena is the least played gametype, hell even blizzard has said it was a huge mistake. I said PvP not arena. And quite many played arena over the years. Blizzard stated that it was mistake to add arena to the game afterwards when balancing for it was very hard cause classes were designed for Pve. Tehy also stated in very same article that if they could they would go back on a timemachine and put arenas in the game from very start so they could balance classes better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Because they want to play a game that's the same as WoW just with a different name so they can feel like it's something new when it's really not? What other logical reason is there for them wanting things exaclty the same as WoW? Well this game is almost exact copy of WoW from 2004 so what did you expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenReafer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Did lots of arena in WoW and while I had alot of success I cant say I would be happy to see Arena in the game, or at least rewards that eliminate players desires to do warzones. Personally I felt arena was often dominated by "flavor of the month" classes and while this wasnt always true I'd hate to see entire seasons where updates and balances dont happen because it might cause problems in the brackets. Arena is also very stressful. I hated winning a bunch of games, losing once, and looking at my rating and realizing that all the points I gained were just lost. Honestly I enjoy the pvp (for the most part) in this game but if warzones die out due to arenas I'm done with the PvP in this game. Hence why people would like cosmetic rewards and a different ladder system from wow. I liked their old start at 1500 and play system, but I'm sure a team like BW can come up with somethign better. SC2 has a good system play 10 placements and get in a division. Make it so you need consistent wins against the middle of the next division to go up. Make the titles in each division so you can't tell if that "glad" or whatever was bronze, gold, plat.... I didn't give it much thaught and they will. I'm just with the masses asking and hoping they will add Arena Also don't get stressed in a game. I leave everyteam when I meet a rager, I just say relax its a game and find a new player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPunx Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Because they want to play a game that's the same as WoW just with a different name so they can feel like it's something new when it's really not? What other logical reason is there for them wanting things exaclty the same as WoW?y And then they'll jump ship because it's a WoW clone and offers nothing new when the next expansion drops. Same story every single time. This is why there's so much animosity for WoW players in the MMO community, just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 well this game is almost exact copy of wow from 2004 lol123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aghar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 put in arena with no gear reward, go ahead, only thing you get is epeen flexing. I will bet my entire life savings (quite a significant ammount) that most of the "pro" pvp players on here will not partake because there is no reward. I thought hardcore pvp players like a challenge, go make you own arena, open it up to every guild on the server, have guilds sponsor teams. Duke it out in the pit in smuggler's den. Make you own arena, with no rewards, see how many people show up to compete, and see how many people show up just to greif it. I bet hands down that the "best pvp guilds" will show up just to greif everyone and mess up the fights, not to compete and challenge themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 y And then they'll jump ship because it's a WoW clone and offers nothing new when the next expansion drops. Same story every single time. This is why there's so much animosity for WoW players in the MMO community, just sayin. And they are majority in MMO community and those diehards that played old MMOs with 300k players are feeling like unique snowflakes and think of emself as "real" MMO players. Well times change and reason why this game is exact copy of WoW is that its where the cash is, BW, EA and lucasarts wasn piece of the pie since they dont do games as pro bono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) put in arena with no gear reward, go ahead, only thing you get is epeen flexing. I will bet my entire life savings (quite a significant ammount) that most of the "pro" pvp players on here will not partake because there is no reward. I thought hardcore pvp players like a challenge, go make you own arena, open it up to every guild on the server, have guilds sponsor teams. Duke it out in the pit in smuggler's den. Make you own arena, with no rewards, see how many people show up to compete, and see how many people show up just to greif it. I bet hands down that the "best pvp guilds" will show up just to greif everyone and mess up the fights, not to compete and challenge themselves. Same with world PvP, sicne there aint any rewards people wont do it. If they loved world pvp so much they would do it for the fun already. Can also add that make wazones only for titels and you see that majority will stop playing em. Getting better gear is main thing in MMOs, in Pve and PvP. THis game is same grind with almost any other MMO out there. Edited January 11, 2012 by Forsbacka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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