RiskyBiz Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 You mean the team has to play cooperatively to score in a team based arena that has goal lines? Pretty sure you just answered your own "valid argument" question. You also forget, both sides have knock backs at their disposal, crying about it is kind of pointless. Assuming both sides have an ability doesn't balance the issue. Also, forcing me to pass the ball because some mouth breather ran into me and pressed one button is a bit lame-- not to mention the potential for getting knocked into the fire or acid-- and many times I'm knocked too far away from my team mates to be able to pass it. I'm not crying, look at how many posts this thread gathered in a short amount of time-- obviously I'm not the only person who feels this is an issue in huttball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friction Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What's the cast time on the point blank AoE knockbacks then? Also with the positioning on the ledges you make it sound like it's the easiest thing to do. Sometimes it's enough to be 10degrees of and you don't get pushed firther down the line but off the ledge or you get pushed into the fire. If I am not on the ball carrier but go after a respawned enemy who is completely irrelevant to the objective I am not doing my job so the sotuation is very relevant. I take it you are a class that has a knockback? Based of my experience, I would say .5 to .75 seconds. Yes, I do indeed have a knockback. Each class in this game has a unique purpose; as a PvP tank, my role is to defend the ramps, run the ball, and clear a path for our healers. I am not sure what you play but you may find more success in harassment, fodder, debuffer, or passer. Stop trying to jam a square peg in a round hole. Find the position in Huttball to match your playstyle and class capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiskyBiz Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Stop trying to jam a square peg in a round hole. Find the position in Huttball to match your playstyle and class capabilities. I have a position to match my playstyle and class capabilities, I heal as a Sawbones. I have no way to avoid being blasted off the top tier of the arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowflit Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) "Put your back against something" - So I have to hug a wall to avoid getting blasted off of a ramp and away from my team in Hutt Ball? And how am I supposed to do this when the upper tier ramps don't have anything to put my back against? 1. Best case scenario is having something solid behind you, but it's not necessary. If you're on a catwalk, position yourself such that the knockback won't knock you off the catwalk (just backwards/forwards and far enough from traps). Even the root knockbacks don't bother me too much, because half the time my opponent stays outside of melee range but inside my 10m ranged attacks. 2. The center ramp doesn't have anything solid near it, true. The side ramps next to the middle section have nice boxes though. If you're on the high level catwalks and your positioning is excellent, you can use the little posts next to the flamepits as something solid. Otherwise just make sure you don't get knocked off. Edited January 11, 2012 by shadowflit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friction Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have a position to match my playstyle and class capabilities, I heal as a Sawbones. I have no way to avoid being blasted off the top tier of the arena. So it sounds like you are missing a body guard. A player to sit in their spawn and tie up the assassins or to tail you on the ramps and stun the aggressor. Removing knockback from Huttball removes such roles and effectively homogenizes PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeusThunder Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Grammar had nothing to do with it, you made some silly debate on the true meaning of "over powered" which would move the conversation away from the issue... anyways-- to address your "reasonable solutions"... "Move out of the area" - So your advice is to "run away from that guy." How is that viable or fair? "Put your back against something" - So I have to hug a wall to avoid getting blasted off of a ramp and away from my team in Hutt Ball? And how am I supposed to do this when the upper tier ramps don't have anything to put my back against? "Being rooted at the time prevents you from being knocked back (or pulled)" - Now you've really lost me. So you're saying that if I'm rooted by an enemy, I can't be knocked back-- and this somehow balances the issue? Hm?? "Some classes have a "leap" ability which lets them get right back to where they were previously by "leaping" to the player that knocked them back" - My class doesn't, so the knockback is still an issue for me. Feel free to hit me up with an actual valid argument to the knockback issue in Huttball. your "reasonable solutions" don't seem at all reasonable to me. Passing the ball, sure. That's one way out of it I suppose-- but it still doesn't feel balanced to me. I questioned your understanding of OP because just stating that all knockbacks are OP in hutball brings your understanding of this term into question. In response to your last paragraph: Your argument seems to be that knockbacks are OP because there isn't an action that every class can do in every situation to completely prevent themselves from being knocked back. By your logic, DPS is also OP since no class is able to make themselves 100% immune to being damaged 100% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrillus Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I love knockbacks, death/life grips, and leaps in this game about as much as I love them in WHO and WoW. That is to say, not at all. Knockbacks, and more specifically, the distribution of knockbacks, is what made me decide to stop playing scenarios in tier 3. Huttball is just a perfect re-incarnation of that rage-inducing experience. I understand that some people like the knockbacks, and I'm sure I'll get plenty of "L2P noob" but it is my personal opinion that these location-changing moves degrade positional awareness/strategy, rather than enhance it. In full disclosure, I played a BO in WHO, and play a scoundrel now, so feel free to chalk this rant up to jealousy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiskyBiz Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 I questioned your understanding of OP because just stating that all knockbacks are OP in hutball brings your understanding of this term into question. In response to your last paragraph: Your argument seems to be that knockbacks are OP because there isn't an action that every class can do in every situation to completely prevent themselves from being knocked back. By your logic, DPS is also OP since no class is able to make themselves 100% immune to being damaged 100% of the time. In my first post, I specifically stated that I wasn't calling knockbacks OP, I wanted to open a discussion on the matter of knockbacks in Huttball. Obviously, I'm not the only person that feels it's an issue. I never once asked for a counter to a knockback in every situation-- I'm speaking specifically on the Huttball arena. Due to it's design, it seems like knockbacks can be overpowered in this specific PvP game. Your last comment on DPS just shows that you're totally unwilling to take an impartial stance on the issue. I guess you're too in love with pressing one button to scatter enemies on those upper tier catwalks. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Here's a rather common scenario in Huttball. You are a melee, and an enemy Sorcerer has walked up to the top ramp. He's likely to catch a pass or pull an ally up soon, but the ball is still far away so it's not a 'must knock this guy off now' deal. In this case, the ideal scenario is to kill the guy instead of just knock him down. So you walk up to that guy and attack. He knocks you down, and now you're going to be zapped from above with no real way of retaliation. The top ramp is very narrow, making it almost impossible to avoid being knocked off. Now let's say you just knocked him down, then what? If he has LoS to you he just shoot you back. If he has no LoS, you're still not ahead. The only reason to do this is if he's about to catch the ball or pull another guy up, but you can't play prevent defense the whole time. At some point you got to kill those guys trying to get to the higher grounds, except as a melee you're grossly disadvantaged. The absolute best you can do is knock him down, and then jump down the pit and hopefully finish him off before he gets back on high ground. So really, the best case scenario for a melee is to use your KB so you can chase the enemy, who is likely to have a head start on you below, since the KB you just used allow him to put distance between you and him? How is that even fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvercgull Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I need it, stealthers are OP, between 1-2 hits 50% Hp is gone. If I survive at all, it is because of cover pulse. Sniper here, and I bet The original poster is a stealther lol. Wanting more easy mode? 2 of 3 wz's it's useless but now you want easy mode all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friction Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Here's a rather common scenario in Huttball. You are a melee, and an enemy Sorcerer has walked up to the top ramp. He's likely to catch a pass or pull an ally up soon, but the ball is still far away so it's not a 'must knock this guy off now' deal. In this case, the ideal scenario is to kill the guy instead of just knock him down. So you walk up to that guy and attack. He knocks you down, and now you're going to be zapped from above with no real way of retaliation. The top ramp is very narrow, making it almost impossible to avoid being knocked off. Now let's say you just knocked him down, then what? If he has LoS to you he just shoot you back. If he has no LoS, you're still not ahead. The only reason to do this is if he's about to catch the ball or pull another guy up, but you can't play prevent defense the whole time. At some point you got to kill those guys trying to get to the higher grounds, except as a melee you're grossly disadvantaged. The absolute best you can do is knock him down, and then jump down the pit and hopefully finish him off before he gets back on high ground. So really, the best case scenario for a melee is to use your KB so you can chase the enemy, who is likely to have a head start on you below, since the KB you just used allow him to put distance between you and him? How is that even fair? Get out of this mindset. You knocked him down and the threat has been extinguished, he is no longer in position to receive a pass. Move on to the next threat but keep an eye on that Sorc. Chances are the bottom feeders will lunch that Sorc. before he makes his way back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellOfish Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Based of my experience, I would say .5 to .75 seconds. Yes, I do indeed have a knockback. Each class in this game has a unique purpose; as a PvP tank, my role is to defend the ramps, run the ball, and clear a path for our healers. I am not sure what you play but you may find more success in harassment, fodder, debuffer, or passer. Stop trying to jam a square peg in a round hole. Find the position in Huttball to match your playstyle and class capabilities. Success in fodder? Is this your advise? You must be joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Get out of this mindset. You knocked him down and the threat has been extinguished, he is no longer in position to receive a pass. Move on to the next threat but keep an eye on that Sorc. Chances are the bottom feeders will lunch that Sorc. before he makes his way back up. No that guy will just shoot you from below and then be on time to assist for the main assault when the ball gets there, except this time you won't be able to defend because you either died (if you stay up there) or you come down to deal with him. You always come out of this situation behind, similar to how grapple someone into fire always makes them the guy who come out behind, except this situation happens a lot more often than the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellOfish Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Seriously, some replies from you guys are like you are the only ones smart and everyone else is a moron who can't grasp the basic concept of the game. Try some of the melee classes who have close to zero utility and no suvivability. Go try a marauder and tell me how you fell about being tossed around like a ping pong ball all the time while sorcerers lol in your face, and when you manage to get to them a second time they just pop their silly shield and keep laughing while they kite you, so squishy are they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raelimar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Knockbacks themselves aren't overpowered, pretty much every class has them. If anything, Scoundrels and Operatives are underpowered for Huttball (though they're certainly very strong when it comes to healing and 1v1 DPS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) What on earth sort of logic is that? If your team happens to be 8 ops and their team happens to be 8 SSes you will lose every time unless they are awful because a SS gets 3 potentially gamewinning abilities (force speed, pull, and knockback) and an op gets 1 (stealth). If how many knockbacks, pulls and charges your team has determines your realistic chance of winning, they need to be evenly distributed among classes. If the number of knock backs are determining if you win or lose then that's why you lose. A knock back is only really effective at certain areas, and many of them can be resisted or avoided if you are careful. If people learned to throw the ball effectively and use team work to have people in position to get the ball then a knock back should not be at all a problem. This mechanic is only OP because you are not playing as a team, and that is what Huttball is all about-TEAM WORK!!!! ps- Don't even talk to me about Op's losing to sages. Op's do so much burst stealthed damage that you have no right no be claiming OP on sages. Edited January 11, 2012 by Golin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeusThunder Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 In my first post, I specifically stated that I wasn't calling knockbacks OP, I wanted to open a discussion on the matter of knockbacks in Huttball. Obviously, I'm not the only person that feels it's an issue. I never once asked for a counter to a knockback in every situation-- I'm speaking specifically on the Huttball arena. Due to it's design, it seems like knockbacks can be overpowered in this specific PvP game. Your last comment on DPS just shows that you're totally unwilling to take an impartial stance on the issue. I guess you're too in love with pressing one button to scatter enemies on those upper tier catwalks. Oh well. I'm a powertech, don't have a knockback ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elumarom Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 To be Honest losing is so easy on huttball you can always get away in 1v1 situation. Also if you knock someone down on top ledge you can easily los him so he aint able to dps you down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aranha Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What classes have the Knockback+Root? Its the hardest counter to Assassins and i hate it! Honestly that must be the best CC in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaurV Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm a powertech, don't have a knockback ability Grapple >>>> knockback. Just use it jumping from a platform on an enemy that's about to score. So fun (if it works ... and i'm not talking about resolve ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyxklak Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is just ridicolous. If u see a class with that ability moving in on u , u just need to stand in a way that wont get u blasted of in the wrong direction. If he moves u got to move to. Thats it. Its movement vsv movement. Awareness of whats around u vsv awareness of what the target has around him. I also get outplayed at times, ending up in fire rooted/stunned/knocked back, but guess what i dont cry about it i try to get better. I used to play a certain other game. It got EXTREMELLY watered down since u would have kids invading the forums and demand every ability that the other classes had. In the end the classes got so similar they lost all sense of being unique. On void star aoe around the doors are very powerful. I guess some classes are better at that. I wont complain thats life. Its also good to be able to stand close to the door and take a few hits extra just to interupt people that wants to place bombs. I guess light armor casters cant do really well in that position. I wont cry about it though... In hutball, a light armor guy gets killed really fast if he gets the ball. I wont demand better armor though. Its a pain with stealth defenders in civil war, they move in without a defender being able to call incs. I wont demand stealth detection though. The lsit goes on and on andon, its heaven and hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoMontana Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think it is, its ridiculous how so many classes can do it and they just train knock backs off the ledge... I think it should knock you back, not knock you off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoMontana Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Standing on the pathways on each side, where exactly should we stand where we WONT be knocked off the ledge? I guess we should not go up there??????? Edited January 11, 2012 by MarcoMontana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsagoulis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) no it's not OP when a low level (~15) just knocks everyone under the bridges and scores alone, no it's not OP ... why are you making this thread? ^^ Edited January 11, 2012 by Vsagoulis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyxklak Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Standing on the pathways on each side, where exactly should we stand where we WONT be knocked off the ledge? I guess we should not go up there??????? U should stand with so u get knocked back on the pathway. Not of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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