VarnieTsk Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Still waiting on a response. Same here. I know this has been brought to their attention numerous times and yet we get nothing but silence. This is not just a frivolous "I want" for the game. This is a serious issue that needs a response. Bioware.....just give us a simple answer please. Is this working as intended? If it is, then I'll be on my way. If it isn't, then I'll wait for a fix. If you continue to give us the cold shoulder, then I'll leave until it's been addressed. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Darkstar Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 After not being able to post all weekend I have finally got my permissions back! yay! I have also just created a Twitter account purely to harass Stephen Reid until I get an answer to this lol. Such an easy question, and compared to most other threads in this forum so civilised and without demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luhgnuts Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 all you have to do is heal someone that is PvP flagged. and ta-da. You're flagged too. Been that way forever and ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truffula Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 None of the popups or explanations of how to play that I've seen have even begun to warn players in PvE areas that they can be "flagged" for PvP without doing something in the UI, just by playing. So this is my first inkling. I've played MMOs for over a decade and managed to avoid any such occurrence. I have only ever PvP in arenas or specially assigned PvP zones, and I like it that way. I agree that the Rifts solution sounds ideal. Each player gets a setting that lets them either allow this auto-flagging to happen or not. Not going to quit over this but would probably just logout and switch characters for the day. So I don't feel overly impinged, but I can definitely see some of the people I like to group with being much less accepting of such a situation. I want it fixed as soon as possible please. Non explicit consent PvP should stay on the PvP servers. And "because you got me in an AoE while fighting something else" is not explicit consent. Actually last night in the game I saw an opposite faction character for the first time at all, on Tatooine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedd Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I started mmo's b4 there was an EQ .. so basically you had UO and in that back then it was 'leave town and watch your ***' .. and everyone dealt with it back then by banding together and kicking seven shades of shi .. umm, yeah, well .. they were told off thoroughly!! Then UO changed to mimic EQ and since then games have got more and more 'solo' .. waiting for the new genre .. massively multiplayer online solo game To solve the griefing problem it needs players to band together more .. hopefully :-) Edited January 23, 2012 by Dedd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VelVenturi Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 To solve the griefing problem it needs players to band together more .. hopefully :-) No. To solve the problem on a PVE server, Bioware needs to fix this. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Darkstar Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 To solve the griefing problem it needs players to band together more .. hopefully :-) That is how griefers are dealt with on a PvP server, we made characters on PvE servers to avoid having to do that. If I get a group together it should be for fun, not to defend myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemian Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) To solve the griefing problem it needs players to band together more .. hopefully :-) I get what you're saying, but some people just don't want to PVP. That's why they rolled on a PVE server. So banding together to PVP doesn't exactly sound like the best solution for someone who doesn't want to PVP. Edited January 23, 2012 by daemian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavri Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If you play on a PvE server you should not be forced to PvP. If you do an AoE on a patch of ground where a flagged enemy is lurking it should simply not hit, unless you specifically target them and attack. Likewise AoE heals should simply miss flagged faction members unless you specifically target them to heal, in which case you also flag for combat. It's not that hard. I don't get why they allow people to essentially grief others by forcing them to PvP on servers not meant for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedd Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thats true .. getting griefed can be a pain, but when 'player x' got back into town and good naturedly informed others of the hazard, some banded together to clear them away, hopefully to save some others. See the mmo part of that? and yes it consumed some time but hey, it's a group of people who will no doubt say they are role playing bandits (fair enough) so the rest of us were the angry villagers with pitch-forks and assorted , hmm .. upgrades But to be honest the amount of time i was ingame .. the griefing took a small percentage away from that. It did build up a larger sense of community though. But nowadays griefers probably know the chances of someone passing on a warning or getting hunted themselves .. pretty low. mmorpg definately lost alot of the community ingame, I mean on almost all of them, compared to what they used to be .. Maybe try a different approach to fixing it .. since they are trying to sneak pvp flagged, have your accidental hit on them make them of sudden 'interest' to any nearby npc's, see how they like the additional attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thats true .. getting griefed can be a pain, but when 'player x' got back into town and good naturedly informed others of the hazard, some banded together to clear them away, hopefully to save some others. See the mmo part of that? and yes it consumed some time but hey, it's a group of people who will no doubt say they are role playing bandits (fair enough) so the rest of us were the angry villagers with pitch-forks and assorted , hmm .. upgrades And that's all fine and well and expected. On a PvP server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartumandua Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead. That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged. RIFTS, the last game I played. You could set an option not to flag, and enemy players couldn't trick you into flagging by stepping into your AOEs. Having AOEs auto-flag you for PvP is just a recipe for abuse. High level players, particularly with stealth can run into your aoe fights, get you flagged, and kill you. If it were a PvP server, it wouldn't matter, but it shouldn't happen on a PvE server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racsofp Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thats true .. getting griefed can be a pain, but when 'player x' got back into town and good naturedly informed others of the hazard, some banded together to clear them away, hopefully to save some others. See the mmo part of that? and yes it consumed some time but hey, it's a group of people who will no doubt say they are role playing bandits (fair enough) so the rest of us were the angry villagers with pitch-forks and assorted , hmm .. upgrades I do see the MMO part of that. On my server, we did just that when a 50 was ganking 35's where I was at the time. It was fun. It was one of the reasons I like PVP servers. Which leads me to, in addition to the MMO part of that I also see the PVP part, which is what a lot of people rolling on a PVE server are looking to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedd Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 And that's all fine and well and expected. On a PvP server. PvE .. whats the definition of that nowadays Player vs Enemy or Player vs Enviroment? If the last then that may be your problem .. nuking the enviroment someone is currently standing in could then count as a pvp action against them .. Different games have different rules and it looks like this one needs to be clarified by 'someone' .. i'm guessing that could be awhile tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedd Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Which leads me to, in addition to the MMO part of that I also see the PVP part, which is what a lot of people rolling on a PVE server are looking to avoid. I know .. it always made me laugh, we were basically going out to grief the griefers (we generally out-numbered them) Edited January 23, 2012 by Dedd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLogicalx Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 enough of this.. im reading post by some ppl saying "its not broken its good" or "its ok to be flagged as pvp just pay attention blah blah" Mike Ditka says: STOP IT! i joined a pve server cause i dont like PVP. ugh ppl joined a pve server so they wont have to be PVP period and its very annoying when u get PVP flagged randomly. ITS a bug or whatever.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) PvE .. whats the definition of that nowadays Player vs Enemy or Player vs Enviroment? If the last then that may be your problem .. nuking the enviroment someone is currently standing in could then count as a pvp action against them .. Different games have different rules and it looks like this one needs to be clarified by 'someone' .. i'm guessing that could be awhile tho The definition is right there at the server select screen. http://i.imgur.com/OAR7U.jpg This is the standard environment where players compete against computer-controlled opponents. However, if you want a chance to fight other players [PvP], fights must be consensual and in designated areas of the world. There will be no special rules enforcement for naming or chat on this server. I am here only to fight computer-controlled opponents. I do not want to PvP. Being flagged for PvP when fighting computer controlled opponents is NOT in any way, shape, or form consensual, regardless of who may be standing around me. Edited January 23, 2012 by Zorvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedd Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The definition is right there at the server select screen. http://i.imgur.com/OAR7U.jpg I am here only to fight computer-controlled opponents. I do not want to PvP. Being flagged for PvP when fighting computer controlled opponents is NOT in any way, shape, or form consensual, regardless of who may be standing around me. Thanks i just read it .. i haven't loaded game up again due to a 0.07 KB line speed :-( With that, correct they shouldn't flag you .. the only word i think they could even 'try' to twist is 'consensual' and thats only because the other player didn't concede to the AoE which ofcourse could be fixed by turning the damage off but if they wanted to get out of it thats the only way i think they could try and thats and extreme twist on the description .. lol For the time being tho .. best warn any aoe users ingame you might know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shama Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 For the time being tho .. best warn any aoe users ingame you might know And don't forget, turn off your companions AoE too. So to avoid PvP all you need to do is just cripple yourself and your companion It's not a great solution, it would be much better to have learnt from the mistakes of other MMORPGs and made it an option on whether you ever want auto-flagging of PvP to take place or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I started mmo's b4 there was an EQ .. so basically you had UO and in that back then it was 'leave town and watch your ***' .. and everyone dealt with it back then by banding together and kicking seven shades of shi .. umm, yeah, well .. they were told off thoroughly!! Then UO changed to mimic EQ and since then games have got more and more 'solo' .. waiting for the new genre .. massively multiplayer online solo game To solve the griefing problem it needs players to band together more .. hopefully :-) I played UO back then too. It was full of griefing and exploits. The reason they changed it "to mimic EQ" and put in Trammel was because people were quitting in droves, myself included. Unfortunately for UO, they never did recover from all those people leaving. Some went back, like myself, but most people had such a bad taste in their mouths after their experiences in pre-Trammel UO that they never went back. And by that time there were other games on the market. Most people either don't know, or they've forgotten, that the term "Carebears" being used by PKs for non-pvpers was originally coined in UO. Also all of the arguments we're hearing here, things like "get some friends," "retaliate," etc, etc, ad nauseum. The point is, by doing any of those things, you've effectively been forced to interrupt your chosen activities for the day to entertain griefers against your wishes. You're doing what they want to do, not what you wanted to do. If the goal of this game is forced pvp, they need to say so and not advertise that the pve servers are consentual pvp only. The pvpers have dedicated pvp servers. And the pvpers can pvp on the pve servers as well. We too should have the ability to play as we choose or to be told by Bioware that they mispoke their description of the pve servers. Anyone arguing against that really needs to take a step back and examine their own motives. Edited January 23, 2012 by VarnieTsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedd Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I played UO back then too. It was full of griefing and exploits. The reason they changed it "to mimic EQ" and put in Trammel was because people were quitting in droves, myself included. Unfortunately for UO, they never did recover from all those people leaving. Some went back, like myself, but most people had such a bad taste in their mouths after their experiences in pre-Trammel UO that they never went back. And by that time there were other games on the market. Most people either don't know, or they've forgotten, that the term "Carebears" being used by PKs for non-pvpers was originally coined in UO. Also all of the arguments we're hearing here, things like "get some friends," "retaliate," etc, etc, ad nauseum. The point is, by doing any of those things, you've effectively been forced to interrupt your chosen activities for the day to entertain griefers against your wishes. You're doing what they want to do, not what you wanted to do. If the goal of this game is forced pvp, they need to say so and not advertise that the pve servers are consentual pvp only. The pvpers have dedicated pvp servers. And the pvpers can pvp on the pve servers as well. We too should have the ability to play as we choose or to be told by Bioware that they mispoke their description of the pve servers. Anyone arguing against that really needs to take a step back and examine their own motives. I was in UO before and after that .. there were more before they decided to mimic eq and 'in droves' is somewhat extreme. Carebear is a stupid term used by those who pvp to describe the pve crowd now, just like noob which is an insult is used for newb as well as in it's original meaning noob. What BW have currently done isn't exactly 'Forced PvP' .. EvE Online .. now that would be, no matter where you are you have no choice in it and you might have 0.9 and a police prescence but you can get suicide ganked or ganked by those who are skilled and 'will' get you and out of there b4 even targetted. Whereas it seems what we have now is just a bug Even if 'WaI' it still requires you to hit them first to get flagged .. not that thats much of a bonus. Despite how you think UO was affected, it's still going .. swg is now dead, i never kept track of eq or eqmac (yes i played that ... lol) Strange how the games people thought would die due to the outdated graphics seem to still be hanging on, I just restarted Anarchy Online (froob account tho, they doubled sub's since i last played!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalK Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 See the mmo part of that? and yes it consumed some time but hey, it's a group of people who will no doubt say they are role playing bandits (fair enough) Wrong. Not fair enough. On a PvE server, that's griefing. The old "I was roleplaying" defense is very old, and no one is buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalK Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 all you have to do is heal someone that is PvP flagged. and ta-da. You're flagged too. Been that way forever and ever. Not on games with functional PvP flag options. A PvE player should NEVER be able to affect a PvP player without flagging FIRST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VorpalK Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I started mmo's b4 there was an EQ .. so basically you had UO and in that back then it was 'leave town and watch your ***' .. and everyone dealt with it back then by banding together and kicking seven shades of shi .. umm, yeah, well .. they were told off thoroughly!! Then UO changed to mimic EQ and since then games have got more and more 'solo' .. waiting for the new genre .. massively multiplayer online solo game To solve the griefing problem it needs players to band together more .. hopefully :-) That's precisely what the PvPers WANT. They want us to engage them in that way. They want to interrupt our game and make us play theirs. I opted out of that when I rolled PvE. And I never once set foot in UO until after they provided Trammel. I'm not interested in playing Lord of the Flies Online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) [quote name='VorpalK']Not on games with functional PvP flag options. A PvE player should NEVER be able to affect a PvP player without flagging FIRST.[/QUOTE] I agree 100%. And those who want to bring up UO for examples are trying to mix apples and oranges. UO was a open pvp world. I knew that when I played it. But if I select a PVE server I am assuming I get to pick when and were I can pvp. If I can accidently flag myself PVP by using aoe, then the coding for pvp on pve servers is wrong...period. And needs to be changed. Edited January 23, 2012 by Valkirus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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