Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?

[Kenze]

the way this works as it is now is pretty much "Forced Pvp" on pve servers.

 

you should ONLY be able to attack another player if YOU are flagged.

AoE from a non flagged player should not flag them and it should do no damage to Flagged players.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Kenze

[Chessack]

I have not had this happen to me, but this definitely needs to be addressed. Someone should not be able to stealth-force me to flag PVP against my will. Like thousands, maybe millions, of others, I rolled on an RP/PVE server to avoid this kind of thing.

[Kabjat]

Very well put.

 

I'm actually someone who's grown to love PvP over the years. At first I was flustered by the adrenalin rush, and embarrassed and ashamed of myself. But in the course of playing EVE Online (I wanted spaceships, so HAD to take the PvP with it), AoC (lovely melee action) and more recently DCUO (highly appropriate open world villain v hero action), I actually LOVE PvP and couldn't imagine playing a game without it.

 

To those who hate PvP, I'd say just dip your toes into it gradually, and don't worry about being embarrassed or people calling you names, just try it out every now and then at your leisure. EVENTUALLY you will get over being flustered by the adrenalin jag.

 

At that point it's wonderful, because you still get the adrenalin jag, but part of you is calm enough to remember what keys to press, and to observe what your enemy is doing, etc.

 

Then, it becomes HUGE fun! (Also, bear in mind that very few players are "born PvP-ers", everyone had to go throug periods where they were being killed more than they killed, it's the only way you learn. There's no shame in losing while you're learning. Invest in loss, as the Chinese say! )

 

By the same token, as someone who remembers what it's like to hate PvP, I dislike it when supposedly leet PvP-ers mock people who don't like PvP or are scared of it.

 

Mocking such people is not a good way to get more people to PvP!

 

Allow me to add my approval to this person's message.

 

It is the abuse, the name calling by those who are experienced pvp'ers that have honestly made me HATE pvp or really want to even give it another chance.

 

Don't give me the excuse that I am just a care bear who needs to grow a thicker skin. No one enjoys to be belittled. There is NEVER a good reason to treat another human being like that. So if that is what I would have to put up with, I think I'll pass xD

 

Like has been stated before in this thread, some people are naturals at PVP and enjoy the fast paced action. For many of us? It's a totally foreign concept...I have not been gaming since birth. Hell, I've only been into casual gaming for a few years.

 

I can see the potential for huge fun, but if I am given ZERO learning curve by the 'PROS' on my warzone team, why in all the HELLS would I want to set foot in one? Why subject myself to being called a loser, and that I should just go KILL MYSELF for being an effing noob (I swear, this was thrown around so much in BGs in wow when there was a loss, but I'm sure all of you remember that LMAO)?

 

I can pretty much guarantee anyone reading this that those of us who would just rather AVOID ANY KIND OF PVP feel that way because of the caustic, hateful, degrading attitudes and behavior of the 'leet PVP veterans'. Why be a glutton for punishment in our leisure time?

 

I would love to get back into PVP...if there were more people with the attitude of the person I quoted.

[_Darkstar]

Allow me to add my approval to this person's message.

 

It is the abuse, the name calling by those who are experienced pvp'ers that have honestly made me HATE pvp or really want to even give it another chance.

 

Don't give me the excuse that I am just a care bear who needs to grow a thicker skin. No one enjoys to be belittled. There is NEVER a good reason to treat another human being like that. So if that is what I would have to put up with, I think I'll pass xD

 

Like has been stated before in this thread, some people are naturals at PVP and enjoy the fast paced action. For many of us? It's a totally foreign concept...I have not been gaming since birth. Hell, I've only been into casual gaming for a few years.

 

I can see the potential for huge fun, but if I am given ZERO learning curve by the 'PROS' on my warzone team, why in all the HELLS would I want to set foot in one? Why subject myself to being called a loser, and that I should just go KILL MYSELF for being an effing noob (I swear, this was thrown around so much in BGs in wow when there was a loss, but I'm sure all of you remember that LMAO)?

 

I can pretty much guarantee anyone reading this that those of us who would just rather AVOID ANY KIND OF PVP feel that way because of the caustic, hateful, degrading attitudes and behavior of the 'leet PVP veterans'. Why be a glutton for punishment in our leisure time?

 

I would love to get back into PVP...if there were more people with the attitude of the person I quoted.

Which is the exact reason that there are both PvP and PvE servers, sadly some people are too selfish to just play on a PvP server because over there they are the prey and they don't like it.

 

No decent PvP'er ever rolls on a PvE server. Just those that are too scared of getting their asses handed to them who think they can bully those who don't even want to fight.

 

PvP on PvE servers should be consentual PvP for those that are still learning how to do it properly.

Edited January 17, 2012 by _Darkstar

[spazzdla]

SWTOR and world PVP.. LAWLS Bahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

Good one OP good one.

[_Darkstar]

SWTOR and world PVP.. LAWLS Bahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

Good one OP good one.

Ah a comment from someone with spazz in their name ...

[Areka]

Very well put.

 

I'm actually someone who's grown to love PvP over the years. At first I was flustered by the adrenalin rush, and embarrassed and ashamed of myself. But in the course of playing EVE Online (I wanted spaceships, so HAD to take the PvP with it), AoC (lovely melee action) and more recently DCUO (highly appropriate open world villain v hero action), I actually LOVE PvP and couldn't imagine playing a game without it.

 

To those who hate PvP, I'd say just dip your toes into it gradually, and don't worry about being embarrassed or people calling you names, just try it out every now and then at your leisure. EVENTUALLY you will get over being flustered by the adrenalin jag.

 

At that point it's wonderful, because you still get the adrenalin jag, but part of you is calm enough to remember what keys to press, and to observe what your enemy is doing, etc.

 

Then, it becomes HUGE fun! (Also, bear in mind that very few players are "born PvP-ers", everyone had to go throug periods where they were being killed more than they killed, it's the only way you learn. There's no shame in losing while you're learning. Invest in loss, as the Chinese say! )

 

By the same token, as someone who remembers what it's like to hate PvP, I dislike it when supposedly leet PvP-ers mock people who don't like PvP or are scared of it.

 

Mocking such people is not a good way to get more people to PvP!

 

Dip the toes into PvP? If I play in PvE is because I want nothing to do with PvPers to start with (at least in world PvP). And if I decide to fiddle with them, I have those pretty warzones and even the possibility of flagging myself as "Looking For PvP".

 

Dipping the toes with the ganker that stealths to the AOE area so he can kill the PvE player... Nope. But I suppose that some people lack what it takes to play World PvP in a PvP server and must resort to find alternatives in the PvE servers.

[Sabarok]

Very well put.

 

I'm actually someone who's grown to love PvP over the years. At first I was flustered by the adrenalin rush, and embarrassed and ashamed of myself. But in the course of playing EVE Online (I wanted spaceships, so HAD to take the PvP with it), AoC (lovely melee action) and more recently DCUO (highly appropriate open world villain v hero action), I actually LOVE PvP and couldn't imagine playing a game without it.

 

To those who hate PvP, I'd say just dip your toes into it gradually, and don't worry about being embarrassed or people calling you names, just try it out every now and then at your leisure. EVENTUALLY you will get over being flustered by the adrenalin jag.

 

At that point it's wonderful, because you still get the adrenalin jag, but part of you is calm enough to remember what keys to press, and to observe what your enemy is doing, etc.

 

Then, it becomes HUGE fun! (Also, bear in mind that very few players are "born PvP-ers", everyone had to go throug periods where they were being killed more than they killed, it's the only way you learn. There's no shame in losing while you're learning. Invest in loss, as the Chinese say! )

 

By the same token, as someone who remembers what it's like to hate PvP, I dislike it when supposedly leet PvP-ers mock people who don't like PvP or are scared of it.

 

Mocking such people is not a good way to get more people to PvP!

 

I'm a different type of person. I don't enjoy the adrenaline rush, and I also don't get much satisfaction from competitive events like PvP. For me to win, someone has to lose. I'd much rather do PvE where we all win or lose together. That's why I chose a PvE server. My brother and many of his friends are on a PvP server, but it's just not my thing.

 

I'm also an old-school player. I've played MMOs since 1996, but I have made sure that the ones I do play have mechanisms to avoid being forced into PvP. Anarchy Online is one I played the longest, and it had regional PvP. It also had a flagging system identical to SWTOR and with the same exploit, but because AO also has level restrictions on PvP, it wasn't much of a griefing problem there. I don't recall what the GM's position was on it, but my guild was opposed to exploiting it.

 

In all the years of playing Anarchy Online I have participated in many PvP events, some of which I have enjoyed, but all the ones I did enjoy are ones I knowingly & willingly participated in.

 

I love the idea of PvP and PvE servers. Let those who enjoy it be with those who also enjoy it, while us co-ops stick to the PvE servers

[ferroz]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

World of warcraft. Everquest. Rift.

 

I'm sure there are more, those are just the ones I know.

[archifikoss]

I'm a different type of person. I don't enjoy the adrenaline rush, and I also don't get much satisfaction from competitive events like PvP. For me to win, someone has to lose. I'd much rather do PvE where we all win or lose together. That's why I chose a PvE server. My brother and many of his friends are on a PvP server, but it's just not my thing.

 

Same here... I do like PvP sometimes as I find it more challenging 1 vs 1 and more rewarding when you beat a same or higher level player, but at this point in my life I just want to relax, unwind and have fun when playing a videogame.

[ferroz]

Only after lots of QQ did they give in to that (dumb move IMO). The game was not originally designed that way.

no, it was like that at launch.

 

They fixed some bugs with it after people QQ'd about it... but the feature itself was there at launch.

[VorpalK]

Same here... I do like PvP sometimes as I find it more challenging 1 vs 1 and more rewarding when you beat a same or higher level player, but at this point in my life I just want to relax, unwind and have fun when playing a videogame.

 

Relax, unwind and have fun is what I'm after.

[HanoverFist]

Back to the top, this needs some attention Bioware. You already have people mad enough to lose a subscriptions, its not the end of the world nor will it kill the game, but lack of info or action can only make it worse. Edited January 17, 2012 by HanoverFist

[KrazieFox]

Also found out I liked the PvP here much better than I would thought, so Im left wanting for PvP encounters in a PvE world (until transfers are made available i guess).

 

 

I do not believe many games allow a pve to pvp transfer - too easy to 'cheat' - roll 1 - 50 on PvE & then transfer to PvP means you got there without the battle others had to encounter.

 

Thus, if you want PvP, you will need to re-roll on a PvP server.

 

Personally I would be over the moon if they completely banned any form of PvP from a PvE server. There are PvP servers & if you wish to PvP you should play on a PvP server. I do not see the issue with that.

 

All PvP will then be 100% Consensual - if you do not like PvP don't roll on a PvP server & if you want to PvP don't roll on a PvE server. Simple

 

That way the PvP players get to play how they wish on populated servers & PvE players get to play the way they wish with no danger of being Grieved by a PvP player. Win/Win

[Melkathi]

Having to watch your back and adjusting your playstyle to account for PvP encounters is normal on PvP servers. However, people who rolled on PvE servers did so precisely because they wanted to avoid world PvP. Shoving world PvP down their throats and forcing them to gimp their playstyle in case there is a griefer around only makes the game stressful and unenjoyable for them (and defeats the point of PvE servers).

 

This. So very much this.

[Leilei]

City of Heroes.

 

Also just because 'thats how is it' doesn't make it a good idea.

 

Do you have any of your own opinions on stuff or do you just make statements to try and belittle people?

 

funny...I played CoX. The pvp area flags EVERYONE for pvp. There is nowhere else you can "flag" yourself for pvp.

[Rochand]

I play on a PvE server as well.

 

I have been PvP flagged in several occasions like:

1. Using healing skills that has AoE effect

2. Rezing a dead player (not possible to see if the player is PvP flagged when dead)

3. Killing mobs and have a PvP flagged player run into my AoE

 

How it should had been in the different cases:

1. AoE heals only affects you or you and the ones you are grouped with

2. Should be an indication in the UI that the target it PvP flagged

3. Non-flagged players shouldn't be able to deal any damage to PvP flagged players unless manually turn on the PvP flag

 

When I play on a PvE server I don't want to have to watch what other players are doing to avoid getting grief'ed by players that only wants to PvP (they play on the wrong server anyway). On the PvE server I only want to have to worry about that the mobs that I fighting is doing and nothing else.

 

The way it is now on the PvE severs it's working like on the PvP servers where there is open PvP.

 

In my eyes that is a game breaking bug for those of us that joined the PvE servers to play only PvE and not PvP unless we manually flag our self for it.

[Sotaudi]

Oldest trick in the book. Gamers have been doing that for as long as there have been PvP and PvE servers. Just watch your AE when you see the other faction.

 

This has been responded to in multiple ways by now, but I just wanted to summarize to show the absurdity of the above remark.

 

First, you cannot be situationally aware if someone is stealthed and hiding near mobs you need to kill. What? Do you run up to the mobs and say, "Excuse me. I will be killing you in a minute, but I needed to check that there are no enemy players hiding out nearby waiting to gank me." No, you would get attacked trying to be "situationally aware" trying to find a stealthed player.

 

Second, and just as crucial. Enemy players have the same color name tags as friendly players. To a non-flagged player, a flagged enemy player shows up the same color as a flagged enemy player. You have no way to tell if they are an enemy without mousing over them, in which case they can be moving making that difficult, or clicking on them, and that has its own dangers. Likewise, a non-flagged enemy player has the same color name plate as a non-flagged player. Again, without directly checking every one around you before each fight, you cannot tell which are friends and which are potential enemies. Even worse, just because they are not flagged now does not mean they cannot be flagged as quickly as you can start combat, so even if you do identify a non-flagged enemy, that does not mean you are safe because they are not flagged.

 

Either way, it is utterly absurd to suggest that it is a non-flagged PvE player's responsibility to ensure that they don't get drawn into involuntary PvP because someone else flagged. In most games, unless you take a direct PvP action, you cannot be flagged. And even then, some games (e.g., Rift), even allow you toggle an option to make it impossible to take even a direct PvP action.

 

There is simply no reason why people should have to be "situationally aware" regarding PvP on a PvE server since they chose a PvE server to specifically avoid unwanted PvP.

[discosoc]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

 

That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged.

 

It's been a while since I've played, but World of Warcraft is not like that. I don't remember when they made the change, but it was a while ago, and meant to address griefing. Basically, if you aren't flagged for PvP, your AoE attacks are ignored by enemy players.

[Loseriticus]

.... b) Don't like non-consensual PvP.

 

Oooh, that sounds so dirty!

 

PvP doesn't interest me, but now I'm curious to experience being "ganked." I mean, when you die, you don't have any penalties do you? Or what do these people do--do they wait until you resurrect to attack you again, over and over?

[VorpalK]

Oooh, that sounds so dirty!

 

PvP doesn't interest me, but now I'm curious to experience being "ganked." I mean, when you die, you don't have any penalties do you? Or what do these people do--do they wait until you resurrect to attack you again, over and over?

 

It doesn't matter if there are penalties. it wastes my time and involves me in an aspect of the game that I do not WANT to EVER be involved in.

 

An aspect that the rule set for the server says I do not have to be involved in.

 

Not once.

 

It needs to be fixed.

Edited January 18, 2012 by VorpalK

[XiliX]

Oooh, that sounds so dirty!

 

PvP doesn't interest me, but now I'm curious to experience being "ganked." I mean, when you die, you don't have any penalties do you? Or what do these people do--do they wait until you resurrect to attack you again, over and over?

 

In several past games, that is one aspect of griefing. That was a favorite tactic in SWG for example.

We booted several members of a guild for doing such things as camping the rezz centers.

There is no common sense reason for such d-baggery. Lack of reprecusions on the internet has emboldened the cowards over the years.

[ibrac]

More than a few posts on this topic. Why is there no formal "this is a bug, we will fix it" or "working as intended" response

 

30 days is up tomorrow, hate to see people leave just because a few people enjoy interfering with the way others want to play and Bioware won't give us a response to let us know about it. People will have to think either Bioware doesn't care or this is what they want to have happen.

[VorpalK]

More than a few posts on this topic. Why is there no formal "this is a bug, we will fix it" or "working as intended" response

 

30 days is up tomorrow, hate to see people leave just because a few people enjoy interfering with the way others want to play and Bioware won't give us a response to let us know about it. People will have to think either Bioware doesn't care or this is what they want to have happen.

 

Excellent point. With no feedback, I have no alternative but to cease paying for this game. I will not subsidize a grief fest.

[Shoraan]

Oooh, that sounds so dirty!

 

PvP doesn't interest me, but now I'm curious to experience being "ganked." I mean, when you die, you don't have any penalties do you? Or what do these people do--do they wait until you resurrect to attack you again, over and over?

 

At the very least you lose some time and credits. Although you may not have to pay for repairs when dying to PvP (I can't even say if that's the case or not, since I have not yet engaged in voluntary PvP) you do have to pay, when you are killed by a mob. Therefore, since a player is thrown into involuntary PvP mode during a fight with mobs I suppose that dying in that case will also count as dying to a mob.

 

Regarding someone else's argument about situational awareness and patrols, I can only say I seem to be lucky that all of the patrols I have encounterd so far were walking rather slowly and not running or even sprinting. Although that might prove to be fun on occasion. Just imagine a few strong or elite patrols suddenly running towards you from 200 meters away. That might make Heroic 4 missions really challenging. Why worry about a bad pull, if you would have to worry about every mob within a 200 meter radius suddenly sprinting towards you.