Kimasoko Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Actually it doesn't. If I do 100 damage I now do 115 but you only take 98. I like a PVP stat the reduces gibs but it should be set % based to make a more enjoyable experience and not increase with tier of gear. Let endurance be the deciding factor for survivability. Thnk you! Didnt think to actually work some numbers ><. this all makes more sense to me meow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kainsec Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ok so in a fight against 2 pvpers it means nothing. The whole point is so pvp can fight pve gear bu they didnt want to mirror stats? So they were like " ok we cant just copy paste pve gear stats to pvp gear, lets just make up another stat, that in the end means the same thing" Thats fine but the Only thing i see with this is, pve gear can still pvp but pvp gear can not pve? The idea is a player who PvEs will have better PvE gear to reward them for PvE which they do bc of higher stats. PvP gear would be better in PvP to reward PvP players which they do bc of expertise. Now you can in fact still do well in in PvP in Pve gear bc expertise has huge diminished returns. The difference between me equipping my pvp legs is .5% at my level of expertise but I have much better stats for my build and higher will and enduance on my PvE legs so the trade off is minimal if any at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killadrix Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I hear Trauma debuffs make healing more effective in PvP. I can't even being to see what your point is with this reply. The point of Trauma is to help balance PVP and PVE healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernetic Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 They should add PvE relics that allow you to obtain 50k ambushes easily like in WoW. Would be nice if my Assassin could crit for a 13k maul every now and then. Biochem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebubs Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Simple answer, to keep people playing by shoving a carrot in front of their nose. OMG getting killed by people with better gear! I'm gonna farm better gear to compete with them/blow people up like what just happened to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belowthelights Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 It's there so that pve gear doesn't dominate pvp, /thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I can't even being to see what your point is with this reply. The point of Trauma is to help balance PVP and PVE healing. Alright, I'll spell it out. You commented on how expertise damage bonus and damage mitigation cancelling eachother out made sense because it made healing more useful... but the Trauma buff exists to debuff healing in PvP... if they wanted to make healing more useful, why would they start out be debuffing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VioletZero Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ok then let me get PvE commendations from PvPing How does that make any sense? The entire reasoning behind that is because losing due to an unfair advantage is never fun. PvE does not suffer this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandoArc Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I will say this take it out or PUT IT ON LEVEL 20 PVP GEAR AND LEVEL 40 PVP GEAR AND NOW THE WE GETING BRAKETS WE NEED A NEW SET OF ARMOR A LEVEL 50 SET THE IS WARZON POINTS BASE WHIT EXPERTISE POINTS ON IT YOU CAN CALL IT DUELIST GEAR SET CUZ IF YOU DONT ALLOT OF THIS OLD LEVEL 50 THE GOT CHAMPION ON EASY MODE WILL DOMINATE LEVEL 50 BRAKET FOR A LONG LONG TIME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killadrix Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Alright, I'll spell it out. You commented on how expertise damage bonus and damage mitigation cancelling eachother out made sense because it made healing more useful... but the Trauma buff exists to debuff healing in PvP... if they wanted to make healing more useful, why would they start out be debuffing it? Because lowering the Trauma debuff heal % will increase the size of heals whereas mechanics such as expertise increases the effectiveness of heals without increasing their size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurleybird Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The whole "it turns the game into gear>skill" argument is one created by bads who needed an excuse as to why they lost. Quite the opposite. People who advocate gear being so heavily influential to PvP success are always bad players who just want a crutch. Real PvPers are always for skill based PvP, and want a greater challenge and a healthier PvP community that doesn't completely scare new PvPers away. Unfortunately, the gameplay in TOR is too simplistic and poorly designed to be skill based, so BW decided to hide behind gear based gameplay. It's a good thing PvE in this game is so enjoyable vs. every other MMO, because PvP is a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senefera Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Remove expertise from PvP, add it to PvE instead. Make it like Wards in WAR, where you would do less damage/take more damage if you weren't warded enough. Solved. Rewarding people for nothing but time invested is utterly stupid and it is a very good way to scare off future PvPers. And we want them to stay, won't we? They make our games pop, they feed our egos with their deaths and they keep the money flowing = more polishing and content for us all. Ladder system is coming for those that needs carrot. Edited January 10, 2012 by Senefera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fratricide Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 It has nothing to do with skill or lack of it, so stop trying to spread that. Expertise is in the game in place of additional stats that are available on the top PvE gear, so it prevents PvP gear from being better or equal to high end raiding gear. Additionally it also prevents the PvP'ers who have no interest in raiding from having a disadvantage to those who do. It balances the game out and it will remain in no matter how much crying you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeedodemus Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Since PVP takes infinitely more skill than PVE; all PVP gear should have the same stats as PVE gear as well as a stat to reduce the impact of "random" chance variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klajo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I just posted this in another 'expertise' thread that is already on a different page after posting so I'll just put it here too. Other than the "exclusivity" of being %10 better at any given PvE/PvP activity in this game; why do we need any special stats at all? Want to join my pre-made? How much expertise you got? Want to join my raid? How much (PvE stat) you got? You know people are going to do it. I've seen it in other games. Denied because you didn't spend most of your time on whatever activity. Although, if players were rewarded with equally strong gear from either PvP or PvE, everyone can enjoy whatever aspect of the game they want to at any time as long as he/she has earned the gear. I personally enjoy both, and it would be great if I could effectively mix my PvE and PvP gear without worrying about my 'special' stat. Instead I can play whichever part of the game I want each day and have a chance to get an upgrade. So no more PvP geared people owning PvE players because of "expertise". No more Raid geared players "blowing" people up in Warzones because they are decked in Raid gear. Why? Everyone has access to the same strength of gear. Just spend time enjoying the game however you please and it will come to you. Top end PvP gear already comes in those random loot bags so its not always a 'sure' thing. Just like looting a Raid boss. Let your victories come because you are a good player and not because of a 'special' stat on your gear. my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 How does that make any sense? The entire reasoning behind that is because losing due to an unfair advantage is never fun. PvE does not suffer this problem. Wait a sec.... You want to get expertise for doing PvE....but if I ask for PvE comms that allow me to get end game PvE gear thats not fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killadrix Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I just posted this in another 'expertise' thread that is already on a different page after posting so I'll just put it here too. Other than the "exclusivity" of being %10 better at any given PvE/PvP activity in this game; why do we need any special stats at all? Want to join my pre-made? How much expertise you got? Want to join my raid? How much (PvE stat) you got? You know people are going to do it. I've seen it in other games. Denied because you didn't spend most of your time on whatever activity. Although, if players were rewarded with equally strong gear from either PvP or PvE, everyone can enjoy whatever aspect of the game they want to at any time as long as he/she has earned the gear. I personally enjoy both, and it would be great if I could effectively mix my PvE and PvP gear without worrying about my 'special' stat. Instead I can play whichever part of the game I want each day and have a chance to get an upgrade. So no more PvP geared people owning PvE players because of "expertise". No more Raid geared players "blowing" people up in Warzones because they are decked in Raid gear. Why? Everyone has access to the same strength of gear. Just spend time enjoying the game however you please and it will come to you. Top end PvP gear already comes in those random loot bags so its not always a 'sure' thing. Just like looting a Raid boss. Let your victories come because you are a good player and not because of a 'special' stat on your gear. my opinion There are many things wrong with this design: 1) For it to be equitable, every time a PVP or PVE tier is released, then BW will be forced to release a new tier of the other which has the potential to increase the speed of the gear grind. 2) For it to be equitable, they will have to ensure that PVP players and PVE players are able to gear equally as fast (or slow) as the other. 3) It will not go over well with the PVE'ers that PVP'ers can "AFK" or "lose" their way to the gear they were required to defeat bosses for. 4) It will also not go over well with the PVE'ers that PVP'ers can farm similar gear to them through PVP and then with potentially zero PVE experience jump into high level PVE groups. 5) Then you have the issue of people farming PVP weapons to PVE with since it has the potential to reduce "waiting for a drop" off a boss. I'm sure there are more. I understand the spirit of what you are saying, but you need to look at it more realistically. Edited January 10, 2012 by Killadrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Because lowering the Trauma debuff heal % will increase the size of heals whereas mechanics such as expertise increases the effectiveness of heals without increasing their size. If expertise negates some of the effects of trauma, how is that different from a no-expertise system where trauma debuffs healing a little less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunamijuan Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You know that if you go lone wolf into a match, gear or skill is not gonna help you vs a cordinated group of players. So this complaining about getting owned while your solo due to a gear disadvantage or a stat disadvantage or a time disadvantage is pointless. Since its a team based match and you are either part of the team or not. Not being part of the team will end up with you getting destroyed most of the time. Cause you are an easy target reguardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VioletZero Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Wait a sec.... You want to get expertise for doing PvE....but if I ask for PvE comms that allow me to get end game PvE gear thats not fair? Yes. PvE does not suffer the same problem as PvP. That's a fact. PvE scales appropriately. It matches your progression. PvP does not. Besides, I didn't specify HOW this would be earned. My first idea is for armor crafters to make it. Edited January 10, 2012 by VioletZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurleybird Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 It has nothing to do with skill or lack of it, so stop trying to spread that. Expertise is in the game in place of additional stats that are available on the top PvE gear, so it prevents PvP gear from being better or equal to high end raiding gear. Additionally it also prevents the PvP'ers who have no interest in raiding from having a disadvantage to those who do. It balances the game out and it will remain in no matter how much crying you do. Here's a better idea for balance: Make PvE and PvP gear equally strong and equally difficult to obtain. But that would be too obvious Here's an even better idea: Don't make the game so heavily gear based. Create gameplay systems that are more complex than glorified button mashing. Have rare gear that is incrementally better and gives an advantage, but not so much that it can make up for even a moderate difference in skill. The ideal balance point should be 90% / 10% in favor of skill over gear, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killadrix Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If expertise negates some of the effects of trauma, how is that different from a no-expertise system where trauma debuffs healing a little less? Because decreasing the Trauma debuff means everyone across the board gets a healing "buff", whereas tweaking it through expertise means those with more expertise are gaining the most effectiveness from heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Because decreasing the Trauma debuff means everyone across the board gets a healing "buff", whereas tweaking it through expertise means those with more expertise are gaining the most effectiveness from heals. I guess nobody is disagreeing after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandoArc Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 H ow about this a STAR WARS GALAXIES GEAR SYSTEM WHERE HERE IT COME JHERE IT COME WHERE GEAR IS GEAR HOW ABOUT A STAR WARS GALAXIE SYSTEM WHERE GEAR IS GEAR O MY GOD WHAT GEAR IS GEAR WHAT GEAR IS GEAR WHAT GEAR IS GEAR ALL THIS MAGICAL STATS THE MAKE ONE GEAR SET BETTER AT THIS OVER THE OTHER GEAR SET IS LAZYNES ON BIO-LAZY WHERE SIDE OF THINGS THEY WANT TO MAKE A GRIND SO PPL STAY IN THE GAME LONGER WHAT THEY DONT GET IS THE NEW PLAYERS WILL QUIT THIS GAME AFTER THE FIRST TRIAL WHY CUZ NO ONE AND I MEAN NO ONE WANT TO GET DESTROY ON PVP CUZ THEY DONT HAVE A SET WHIT A MAGICAL STAT IN IT ONE MORE TIME STAR WARS GALAXIES SYSTEM WHERE GEAR IS GEAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGHTorFIGHT Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Who even cares about balanced pvp at this point. No brackets Pre-mades vs randoms OP adrenals Significant Gear Imbalances Skill delay The is a pve game - go through the content then quit. There is no lasting appeal because there is nothing competitive. The pvp is a gear gind, its not meant to be more. Instead of whining forever about poor design that won't be changed for months if ever just play or wait for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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