Korrigan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) It's been said a million times, people without a clue shouldn't comment. My ms is to quote trillville "NEVA EVA" above 80ms... There is no connection issue. What we use is something called an FPS meter.. Ctrl+shift+F or use something like Fraps. I'm sorry but we're not idiots. Several people having issues are IT-professionals, programmers, software architects, people that have actually written basic engines for fun, built computers for over 10 years etc. Actually most of us that have been gaming competitively for years or played a lot can tell the difference of feel between lag and FPS drops quite easily so even if we didn't have these "advanced" tools like FPS counter and ms counter we'd know the difference. So stop making completely baseless posts.Not only I'm playing video games for over 30 years now, and MMOs since UO beta (15+ years ago) along with MUDs before that, but I'm also a professional Software Engineer for 20+ years too. I know the difference between connection issues, Internet lag, graphic lag, loading lag (from the harddisk trashing), <insert whatever other performance problem a game can have>. I have an average machine to play, not the last top notch stuff, not a 5+ years old piece of crap either. I have zero performance problems, not even in Warzones. Explain why other supposed "professionals" have problems then... weird, isn't it? Edited January 12, 2012 by Korrigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldPush Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I have zero performance problems, not even in Warzones. Explain why other supposed "professionals" have problems then... weird, isn't it? It's not mutually exclusive or inclusive is it? Your post just clearly supports the claim that this game has a lot of bugs that needs to be fixed. It just means this game is completely random in it's performance. People with POS machines outperforming new top of the line rigs with fresh windows installs and all drivers. When the same people complaining about performance in SWTOR can play much much more demanding games with superior performance that sort of points towards SWTOR being the issue, observational bias and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainSplatter Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 wait, you think 30-45 fps is good? Says a lot. There's no way we can agree on how 'good' our game performes when we're not listing average fps. 30-45 fps isn't great at all for a game like swtor that has terrible low-res textures, unless you're in a super-crowded area. I get a significantly better performance in RIFT, which is by far the better looking game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainSplatter Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Seeing as how the human eye cannot process more than 27 FPS you lost all credibility with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I have a very high end pc intel 17 2600k, 16 gig ram, 2 x gtx 560ti etc. and swtor dosent run good at all on my computer, i have reinstall the client twice now and nothing better each time, i have big fps drop and artifact in a lot of places. This is really annoying because i cant play swtor like its msupposed to be played, i had to skip planet because it was to bad so im stuck to low level on to high of a planet, friends are much higher lvl so cant come and help. This is why i have pull out my subcription. I wish they would fix it, but i guess they dont. they dont care! 5% yeah right! wth? dude seriously, there must be something wrong with your PC, or drivers or hardware or harddrive, cause i have a system half as good as yours and it runs this game on max setting with none of the problems you talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrigan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I get a significantly better performance in RIFT, which is by far the better looking game.What is "looking better" is purely subjective. Rift uses the same engine than Warhammer, and it shows. I find both games generally ugly because of the way that engine works. Not to mention I'd take the art direction of a SW:TOR or a WoW anytime over the sub par art team of Rift. Only my opinion of course... but just to show you that what "looks better" isn't something you can just present as a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpal Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 i7 950 4 core, 12gb ram, geforce gtx 580 lagging when crowded and generally on imperial fleet. ********, ohlen. bull ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 you lost all credibility with this. Why? He's right. Humans can't see the difference between 25 ~ 27 fps and 100 fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrigan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Why? He's right. Humans can't see the difference between 25 ~ 27 fps and 100 fps.You can definitely see the difference between 25 fps and 60 fps. And the larger the screen, the more you see the difference. Most games also don't have "motion blur", which makes the lower frame rates in movies tolerable. The guy is wrong. Edited January 12, 2012 by Korrigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Why? He's right. Humans can't see the difference between 25 ~ 27 fps and 100 fps. i notice a difference in any game i play if the FPS drops from 60 to 27. i don't think it matters if it actually registers visually. what matters is you notice it holistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 You can definitely see the difference between 25 fps and 60 fps. And the larger the screen, the more you see the difference. Most games also don't have "motion blur", which makes the lower frame rates in movies tolerable. The guy is wrong. Well, if that's the case; that's the case. I'm personally too ignorant on the subject to debate it seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHartigan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 How does saying the problem only exists for a tiny minority of people who have low-end machines (which is a lie, by the way) serve as "confirming a problem?" It's not confirming the problem, it's marginalizing the problem. It's not a lie. I don't know if you do the bulk of your gaming on PCs or consoles, but you have to understand the difference between the two. It's pretty easy to get a game to work on every PS3 because everybody's PS3 is the same. Everybody's PC is not. In fact I think it's fair to say that most people's PCs are different from each other than are the same. And you expect BioWare to be responsible for making sure the game runs on every single one of them? That's a nearly impossible task. At least some of the responsibility is on you. Look I had performance issues as well with a high end laptop well above rercommended requirements and still had framerate issues. Like framerates in the teens. If I were you it would have been very easy to blame BioWare and tell them to fix. But the reality is a BioWare can't fix what isn't their problem. It doesn't matter if you have a high end PC if it isn't running properly in the first place and mine wasn't. I hadn't updated my GPU my GPU drivers and my PC was running too hot. I fixed both of those by downloading drivers for my GPU and main chipset and ordering a cooling fan. Both of which have made a world of difference in the performance of the game. Long story short and good life lesson overall; Make sure the problem isn't you FIRST, before you go blaming somone else for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ander_drake Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Franky, I never expected miraculous running this game on my PC, I expected problems to manifest occasionally. I have a windows 7 64 bit with 4gb of ram and two processors that is about 2.0ghz with an HD Intel video card. For most tasks my computer preforms well without any problems. I digitally downloaded the game just after Christmas. I excepted to have problems because with any online mmo game there are going to be some issues. Many parts of the game have work well but there has been lag time on attacks, the computer generated characters seem to be able to shoot or cut me faster than I can often respond. Of course, my companions fight as fast as the computer controlled characters do. So, fast in fact I find them quite annoying either they overzealous attack every character to point they get in my way all the time, I want to be able to fight enemy characters myself with out having val khem or the droid 17-01 standing on my feet but the only options seem to be attack or passive don't attack any enemies. I turned on the attack characters directly in front of me option but that does not work as often as i would like it too. The mouse point targeting system often takes forever target a character often I have to click on the enemy character several times before it locks on and I am able to start attacking the computer controlled enemy character. The target characters directly in front of me doesn't kick in till i have taken quite a bit of damage or sometimes it doesn't kick in at all and after having taken damage i have to click, click, click on the enemy attacking me. I can't count the number of times I died when i shouldn't have and that doesn't cover the occasions when regular computer generated monsters seem to become invisible and attack my character and I can't target them to attack them back. All have endured all these bugs and more but one issue is driving me out of mind. The directional keys (wasp) don't respond constantly or over respond in many cases. The turn left or right keys are the worst issue I have had to deal with, sometimes I push the a or d keys and they do not respond at all and other times they respond and my character turns a whole 90 degrees, but I have measure 10 degrees, 30 degrees, 50 degrees, and even an occasional 180 degree turn when pushing the A or d keys about once. The forward key w works most of the time but when going down stairs it hops down but really I couldn't walk a straight line with my character at this point. Maybe the options can be adjusted to get a more fluid movement of my character. Although, the walk button helps resolve some of these problems it is so painful slow I can't stand to use it. The sprint ability you get around level 14 works better than the regular movement speed. God help me if the server starts to have lag time i already have trouble moving my character around, targeting enemy characters, and deciding whither to put up with annoying companion characters or dismissing them and fight alone. If they fix anything I wish they would make my character movements more fluid and the targeting system a little faster. I can tolerate the occasional buggy quest but what makes the game less attractive to play is the dissatisfaction of feeling you can't control your character well enough to keep the experience enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Long story short and good life lesson overall; Make sure the problem isn't you FIRST, before you go blaming somone else for them. +1 ^ I spent a great portion of my early career in the field and on my tools. That time taught me that while it is possible that an issue could be the caused by faulty parts, it was much more likely that the issue was caused by either myself or my customer. In 10+ years running around in the field, I encountered maybe .1% of instances where I could legitimately forward responsibility to a manufacturer. In fact, once I reached a supervisor role, I never accepted the whole "board is bad" answer to a customer's problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbatai Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 And you may be describing a non-Issue or should I say you are mudding the waters. In your case is there an Issue with your lag or PC ? Probably not. But if the guy you where PvPing with has a high latency or is purposely inducing lag then the result will show up at your end. You have to look at the game first in PVE or should I say when you are not interacting with other players and see if you are having the same issues. Fix those Issues then add people and fix those Issues, they are totally different, even though the results look the same from the players prospective. One of the reasons I stay away from PvP servers cause I am so sick of the rampant cheating in any game that supports PvP and how much time gets wasted trying to prevent people from doing it. It is a no win situation. I used PVP as the majority of my examples because this is the way I want to play. The issues are not as obvious in PvE but they still exist. Error 9000, missing out on end boss loot rolls because of it and being told "known issue, deleted" is not exactly helping anyone. Oh, it is a known issue? Great.. Do you have a known solution? No? How about engaging me in some dialogue then? Do you care what kind of system I have or want any details about my Internet connection? Guess not. Framerates are terrible everywhere.. better in open world, but still too bad to enjoy the game. Incredibly long load times on an SSD which I bought not only to attempt to remedy the issue but where everything else is now lightning fast.. SWTOR loads take just as long as they did before buying the SSD. Advanced host controller, TRIM and all the works set up just right. The point is that Bioware has come right out and said the "majority of players are not experiencing issues" ... yet they then go on to say that they gathered this information based on the number of tickets they have received. Well now.. that is a terrible way to measure this metric, no? What about forum posts? What about Google and the tons of fan sites with tons of people complaining about the same thing.. some with admittedly terrible systems but many with great top-of-the-line components and years of technical know-how? If a Bioware rep wants to contact me directly and have me post dxdiags, lists of components, network data, tweaks, running programs and the like I'd be more than happy to comply. But when I am told outright that it is because I have ***** hardware when people with lesser machines are doing just fine I have to say it is frustrating at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHartigan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 +1 ^ I spent a great portion of my early career in the field and on my tools. That time taught me that while it is possible that an issue could be the caused by faulty parts, it was much more likely that the issue was caused by either myself or my customer. In 10+ years running around in the field, I encountered maybe .1% of instances where I could legitimately forward responsibility to a manufacturer. In fact, once I reached a supervisor role, I never accepted the whole "board is bad" answer to a customer's problem. Sounds like we're in roughly similar lines of work. You really come to learn once you're on the other side that the customer is in fact NOT alway right, and more often than not, wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwaysthirsty Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 This game leaks worse then a '75 Chevette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbatai Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Game runs smooth as silk after removing a number of software utilities that were causing the problem. Thanks for that amazingly helpful post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbatai Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 So quit playing it. There, problem solved. You don't like the performance, don't play. Wow, that was hard! Seems to work just fine for me and a couple of thousand other people around the planet. I have a dual core Dell Latitude with 4 gig of ram and a crummy onboard Intel video card. Perhaps my 20mb UP/DOWN internet connection gives me an advantage. Or we could look for advice and try to find a solution. But then where would you post your angry little rant? Oh that's right.. right in the thread attempting to share advice and find a solution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogoo Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Why? He's right. Humans can't see the difference between 25 ~ 27 fps and 100 fps. That's a MYTH. Now the truth is that a movie feels perfectly fluid to us because the framerate is CONSTANT. The difference between 25 and 80 fps is EASILY noticeable because in computer games framerate is always inconsistent (unless the game is fps capped which is the case for some console games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lividcalm Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 There's no problem as long as you have at least a 4 core and good enough parts to go with it. Perfect example being my recent upgrade from 2 to 4 cores, as well as some other much needed upgrades. You need the proper computer to play this without very noticable slowdowns and FPS loss, even on lowest possible settings for this game. Incorrect, I am not running 4 cores, and I have a consistent 80-100 FPS everywhere but the Fleet, which drops to about 40-60 depending on population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHartigan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I used PVP as the majority of my examples because this is the way I want to play. The issues are not as obvious in PvE but they still exist. Error 9000, missing out on end boss loot rolls because of it and being told "known issue, deleted" is not exactly helping anyone. Oh, it is a known issue? Great.. Do you have a known solution? No? How about engaging me in some dialogue then? Do you care what kind of system I have or want any details about my Internet connection? Guess not. Framerates are terrible everywhere.. better in open world, but still too bad to enjoy the game. Incredibly long load times on an SSD which I bought not only to attempt to remedy the issue but where everything else is now lightning fast.. SWTOR loads take just as long as they did before buying the SSD. Advanced host controller, TRIM and all the works set up just right. The point is that Bioware has come right out and said the "majority of players are not experiencing issues" ... yet they then go on to say that they gathered this information based on the number of tickets they have received. Well now.. that is a terrible way to measure this metric, no? What about forum posts? What about Google and the tons of fan sites with tons of people complaining about the same thing.. some with admittedly terrible systems but many with great top-of-the-line components and years of technical know-how? If a Bioware rep wants to contact me directly and have me post dxdiags, lists of components, network data, tweaks, running programs and the like I'd be more than happy to comply. But when I am told outright that it is because I have ***** hardware when people with lesser machines are doing just fine I have to say it is frustrating at the least. That's another thing people need to understand about whether something is truly a problem on the manufacturer side or not. People who aren't happy with a product are vocal about it. People who are happy generally are quiet. The reason you only see complaining on message boards is because the people who dont have anything to complain about aren't there because, well, they have nothing to complain about. It is easy at first glance to assume by lookng at messsage board postings that 'everyone' is having issues and thus it's a bad product. But the question you really need to answer to determine whether there's a real problem with a product is what is the percentage of complainers to people tha own the product? Now that said, I have my own personal opinions as to whether or not there are actual issues with the product. I have similar experiences to you in PvP. My system runs great in PvE but framrate drops quite noticeably in PvP. I don't know what it's from. Can their servers not handle that many player characters at once? Or do I just not have things optimized enough to run it well in terms of internet connection and PC hardware? Annecdotally it doesn't seem like there are that many people who don't experience performance drop in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskareot Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Bull crap Ohlen. I've lost track of the numbers of players with extremely high-end machines complaining about exactly the problem described in the article. So Bioware's stance is simply going to be to deny the issue exists and foist it off on "low-end machines?" My i7 with 12 gigs of RAM and HD6970 would like a word with you, Mr. Ohlen. Ahh ATI card explains it all... I tell ya... nothing but issues with them overall in the gaming world. AMD as well, since they now almost the same company I see the whole issue as well. Sorry.. I dare say you may need to take it up with them... THE TAIL does not wag the dog sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrigan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Ahh ATI card explains it all...I have a full AMD system (Phenom II and ATI HD6870) and have no performance problems. So long for assumptions and "urban legends", I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloatedGuppy Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Ahh ATI card explains it all... I tell ya... nothing but issues with them overall in the gaming world. My 5770 runs the game fine with everything maxed. Maybe I have the magical alchemical combination of components that allows this to happen, but there is no universal issue with ATI cards and TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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