pjskull Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Oh dear God - I just did some research into Hero Engine - It can best be compared to - you know like when you want to build a website and don't want to pay money for it, you go to those cheapo "free" websites - well that's Hero Engine for you. It's for those amateur kiddies who want to build online games - this is NOT professional at all. This is NOT in studio development. No wonder we have all of these problems. People read the entire site: http://www.heroengine.com/heroengine/why-heroengine/ http://www.heroengine.com/herocloud/ Now I understand why BW went with a 3rd World, outsourced CS and why they know NOTHING about the game. NOTHING IS IN-HOUSE. Dear god what have they done??? This is a generic engine that anyone without any kind of know-how can use. I'm going to cry...:( I will try to remain constructive about your post. It's a tad overly dramatic. Please address this thought: (that I repeat) If we operate under this hypothetical, that everyone is telling the truth, then how can it be the engine? The engine is the one thing we know for sure that all players have in common. Why do *so many* have no issues (including the sizable group I play with that I know from real life) if the engine is at fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 From my source (Emphasis Mine): The bolded part is important. It's not written well and I would have added some commas to make it more clear: However, we know that it's important that there is a smaller group of people, usually with lower end machines, that are having problems in some areas. He is stating that most commonly it is caused by persons with lower end machines, but clearly is not saying that it is exclusive to those individuals. I know what it says, I can read. No matter which way you read that it infers, that he thinks it's related to lower end machines. Now.. We can assume, please say you agree That most, if not 99% of the players on SW:ToR have played WoW or Rift or Everquest or Conan or some other <insert mmo title here>. And all those run fine. If all those run fine, and SW:ToR does not, then ToR is the problem and not the machines. There is no way ToR is any more expensive on Graphics than Rift. And I know for a fact that Rift plays fine in a MAC VM running Win7 end, and ToR does not. So.. It's either the engine or the coders. If it's the engine, then no amount of coders will fix it unless they re-write the engine. I think we can agree tart's not going to happen. If it's not the engine and it's the code or coders, one has to question what their success rate and at what delay they are going to have. Finally, all this should have been sorted out before a production release. This is 2012, and I expect a lot better from a 2012 game than I did say on a 2005 game.. Your mileage may differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bollah Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Oh dear God - I just did some research into Hero Engine - It can best be compared to - you know like when you want to build a website and don't want to pay money for it, you go to those cheapo "free" websites - well that's Hero Engine for you. It's for those amateur kiddies who want to build online games - this is NOT professional at all. This is NOT in studio development. No wonder we have all of these problems. People read the entire site: http://www.heroengine.com/heroengine/why-heroengine/ http://www.heroengine.com/herocloud/ Now I understand why BW went with a 3rd World, outsourced CS and why they know NOTHING about the game. NOTHING IS IN-HOUSE. Dear god what have they done??? This is a generic engine that anyone without any kind of know-how can use. I'm going to cry...:( This is the website of the best investment company in the world and also home to one of the richest people in the world. http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/ I love how kids find Google and think they know everything. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSublimitas Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 you do realize that your "masters degree" is absolutely meaningless in this regard, do you? just saying - but i do understand good, bad and just plain CHEAP technology and when a company is CUTTING CORNERS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbidillusion Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The main game world is not instances. Yes it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSublimitas Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I will try to remain constructive about your post. It's a tad overly dramatic. Please address this thought: (that I repeat) If we operate under this hypothetical, that everyone is telling the truth, then how can it be the engine? The engine is the one thing we know for sure that all players have in common. Why do *so many* have no issues (including the sizable group I play with that I know from real life) if the engine is at fault? Please read the site and then you'll understand why you're all having so many problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krakken Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Not it was 100+ people including companions, I know I was there. Go on Youtube and find the videos. Oh, so you think that there was only one group trying this? Yeah, right. I know exactly how many they were because I was one of the guys organizing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjskull Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 After 3 games of pvp, I decided to avoid warzones altogether until the responsiveness issue is fixed. I don't usually have too many issues in the way of FPS (except on the fleet), but when abilities don't activate until about a full second after the GCD completes, it makes pvp unplayable. Of course, there are responsiveness issues outside of warzones as well, but the high number of players on screen at ones just seem to exacerbate it. No offense, but you're in the wrong thread. The ability delay issue has to do with the number of nodes in the ability animations.... The issue is an acknowledged issue by BW and they are working on a fix. But thanks for contributing that many players have no FPS issues, lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bollah Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes it is. No it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbernert Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 i7 3.2ghz 8gb ddr 1600ram 256gb ssd geforce 580gtx 220ish in fleet (25-100fps) solo (50-120) warfronts (20-50) I find it funny the people who post about this issue saying upgrade your hardware. This games graphics don't deserve an upgrade passed a 2005 walmart pc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bollah Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Oh, so you think that there was only one group trying this? Yeah, right. I know exactly how many they were because I was one of the guys organizing it. Proof? What server was this? Or you are making things up. I was PvPing with 200 people and had 100+ FPS but I have no proof so take my word. Edited January 10, 2012 by Bollah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbidillusion Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Opinion, not fact. Opinion, not fact. Your conclusion is flawed because the only thing we KNOW is that the world is instanced. Therefore, the entirety of your argument is flawed. I was hoping you would do that. Let's compare our arguments side by side: You are now claiming that SW:TOR is heavily instanced in the main game world, not because it improves performance but because: 1: Instancing the main game world is not counter-intuitive to MMOs and is viewed positively by players. 2: The game is not better enjoyed without an instanced main game world. Conclusion: The main game world is instanced under no logical premise. We know nothing and never will. Additionally, the premises you mark as opinions are not opinions. Empirically speaking, it can be observed that players prefer a lack of instancing in all situations where it can be achieved. If the prevailing opinion of the consumer is that one thing is good and another is bad, it is a fact that more people enjoy X than Y. Also, I asked you to name the fallacy in my argument. Which you didn't. You initially claimed my argument was using a fallacy to draw its conclusion and you seem to not know which it was. A false premise is not a fallacy. Edited January 10, 2012 by morbidillusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I will try to remain constructive about your post. It's a tad overly dramatic. Please address this thought: (that I repeat) If we operate under this hypothetical, that everyone is telling the truth, then how can it be the engine? The engine is the one thing we know for sure that all players have in common. Why do *so many* have no issues (including the sizable group I play with that I know from real life) if the engine is at fault? If we operate on your hypothesis; Everyone is telling the truth Everyone is running the same engine Some have no problems Some have problems. Some with low-end machines have no problems Some with high-end machines have no problems Some with low-end machines have problems Some with high-end machines have problems What's the common denominator? The Engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogitu Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 just saying - but i do understand good, bad and just plain CHEAP technology and when a company is CUTTING CORNERS. actually you do not understand, no one here in this forum can exactly point this out except making guesswork by using logic(more or less). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjskull Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If we operate on your hypothesis; Everyone is telling the truth (don't know, was suggesting a hypothetical for the sake of discussion) Everyone is running the same engine (Fact) Some have no problems (I can vouch for this being true) Some have problems. (Seems to be the case, based off of volume of complaints) Some with low-end machines have no problems (don't know, my machine is aces) Some with high-end machines have no problems (This is true for me) Some with low-end machines have problems (Again, to little data for me to say) Some with high-end machines have problems (Too little data for me to say) What's the common denominator? The Engine. (While true, you have failed to make a point...) /sigh. Take a breath. Please answer this question: How can the engine cause performance issues when many, many players do not have performance issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralll Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Would anyone like a tear with their post? I can certainly add to your crying. Half of these issues are related to packet losses with your ISP, your crappy PC, or your mental state. It takes time to balance server issues when you do have large populations. Now start exercising and get rid of that fat belly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjskull Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Please read the site and then you'll understand why you're all having so many problems No matter what it says, how can it be the engine when many players have no issues? They are using the engine and *having no issues*... How can it be the engine when so many are playing without issues on the same engine? Edited January 10, 2012 by pjskull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hvidhajen Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Tonight on: omgswtorsengineiscrapbecausemyfpsislow.jpg Will OP's computer ever be able to handle SWToR? Find out after the commercial break! Rated pg-13 yadda yadda yadda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I was hoping you would do that. Let's compare our arguments side by side: You are now claiming that SW:TOR is heavily instanced in the main game world, not because it improves performance but because: 1: Instancing the main game world is not counter-intuitive to MMOs and is viewed positively by players. 2: The game is not better enjoyed without an instanced main game world. Conclusion: The main game world is instanced under no logical premise. We know nothing and never will. Additionally, the premises you mark as opinions are not opinions. Empirically speaking, it can be observed that players prefer a lack of instancing in all situations where it can be achieved. If the prevailing opinion of the consumer is that one thing is good and another is bad, it is a fact that more people enjoy X than Y. Also, I asked you to name the fallacy in my argument. Which you didn't. You initially claimed my argument was using a fallacy to draw its conclusion and you seem to not know which it was. A false premise is not a fallacy. With 25+ yrs in IT I love logic, and you Sir made me smile! Kudos on the use of 'Empirically' ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSublimitas Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I even tend to wonder if BW even had to pay for the Hero Engine License. This is an email from Hero Engine ppl sent to a gamedev list. On Friday September 9th we will be opening the floodgates again for the fourth build phase for new HeroCloud Licensees. This means if you want the HeroEngine Tools and The HeroCloud Platform, for free, now, we want to give them to you. Normally we have a number of hoops to jump through due to limited space and resources, but for Monday, if you meet the following minimum requirements we'll give you a license to the HeroCloud and pay for everything you need to make an online game. You need (at minimum): 1 Developer capable of client and server scripting in the HeroScript Language. 1 Artist with access to Max or Maya somewhere in their art pipeline. We do NOT have an FBX import pipeline in the Cloud at this time, so Max or Maya is a requirement. 1 Idea for any type of online project from a social game, to co-op Tetris, to a multiplayer FPS, to the next big MMO. 1 Windows PC built after 1999, with 2GB RAM, updated drivers, etc. An internet connection with up and down speeds faster than your grandmother uses. (1MB Upstream is NOT faster than your grandmother uses). Reply to this email at anytime before Friday September 9th at 2pm Est stating that you have read the requirements and that you meet all of the requirements. You will then receive a license code to the HeroCloud, with 99 seats attached to it, which also includes licenses to SpeedTree, FMOD, Granny, FaceGen, and Umbra. You make the game, and we pay for everything else: Hosting, Bandwidth, Billing Systems (in game stores), Account Systems. You make money, we take 30 percent, and our 30 percent covers all license fees and operational costs for your project. If you have any questions about the HeroEngine or the HeroCloud, or just want to talk shop, please don't hesitate to ask me, but most questions are already answered here for you: All Your Questions Answered. If you'd rather not be contacted about the HeroCloud, we've provided an unsubscribe link below, so I'll know not to try to give you amazing stuff anymore. -Cooper Buckingham Product Manager Idea Fabrik, HeroEngine, HeroCloud Cooper@HeroEngine.com Hmmm... wonder if BW was offered a similar deal?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsunami Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 sorry, what? Ive been in the republic fleet at times with a full instance (99 people) and no lag, with everybody running about left right and centre on my screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No matter what it says, how can it be the engine when many players have no issues? They are using the engine and *having no issues*... How can it be the engine when so many are playing without issues on the same engine? How can it not be the engine when so many are playing with high-end machines and using the same engine? You asked a question ow I'll ask one.. What do you think it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanharn Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Never had that issue before, been on the republic fleet with 50 people near me in the flashpoint drop ship area, no lag at all Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSublimitas Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Well something OBVIOUSLY is up then. Etither their engine sucks, which I wouldn't be surprised or ppl are just lying here about their computer specs - why they would do that, I haven't the foggiest clue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanharn Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 How can it not be the engine when so many are playing with high-end machines and using the same engine? You asked a question ow I'll ask one.. What do you think it is? Classic case of blame the game not your rubbish PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts