Nowhere Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My first ~15 levels or so I made choices made as if I were roleplaying (something I hardly EVER do in games). I wanted to feel connected to my character. I killed a few NPCs who were real a-holes, and I saved some other people who didn't deserve a grisly fate. Then went to the light/dark side vendors and saw all of the relics were based on your light/dark points. I had accrued 1200 light side and 1050 dark side. I could use exactly zero relics in the game. Worst game design. Ever. This. I hear they are implementing some "neutral" relics at some point but I am not thinking this is a priority for Bioware. So making your own choices without following the hands that feeds is sadly punished at this current time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelestrialFox Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Much like real life, you don't have any real choice you have an illusion of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is the biggest reason I am dissapointed with this game. One playthrough from 1 to 50 and you see exactly how transparent this game is. That would not be an issue if the emphasis was not story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryzerion Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is the biggest reason I am dissapointed with this game. One playthrough from 1 to 50 and you see exactly how transparent this game is. That would not be an issue if the emphasis was not story. You mean if they didn't emphasise on just the story itself, luckily some games(mmos) are going even further Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If this were The Matrix, which pill would you choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Why? Why do they have to be on the other end? She's a pre-written NPC, she could be pre-written to reply to you telling her to go f*ck herself. Instead, you're given the 3 choices of "Grrr im so mad welcome back" "Welcome back" and "I missed ya welcome back" Why no "Go away"? Because the developers can't anticipate and accommodate every pre-written response that every person might want, and the responses they already have added have taken extensive time and money to implement. 4 choices would be nice, but 3 is what they chose. Meanwhile, they could add 100 different responses and there would still be people lacking that one specific response they would have chosen to give. They could add thousands more pre-recorded responses, and the system would still be limited. In buying this game or any rpg dependent on static, developer created content, that's what you're dealing with. Buy a Final Fantasy game, and the NPC's will only have so many things to tell you. Buy Arkham City, and the bad guys will only have so many things that they were recorded to say. So yeah, for anyone that finds this or any such games lacking, they'd be better off with a system where content is dynamically created by real people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Haha good one! If there's one thing this forum is good for its telling people to play another game! Just about any forum would tell you to play something else when it's clear such a game would be a better fit. If someone goes into a Taco Bell and complains that there are no hamburgers and french fries, isn't it a reasonable response to point out the Burger King across the street? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkeus Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just about any forum would tell you to play something else when it's clear such a game would be a better fit. If someone goes into a Taco Bell and complains that there are no hamburgers and french fries, isn't it a reasonable response to point out the Burger King across the street? Oh, don't use logic, it burns them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappaCube Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I like the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverlongAU Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A lot of people in this thread are saying how rpg works in single players games and expect that to work in a multiplayer game world. It just can't. Its fine for the entire world to change when you are the only player in it, but when it's multiplayer it just not possible. The only way it can be achived with todays tech is phasing, but phasing automatically locks you out from the other players in the world if they are not up to the same point that you are. So if phasing was used extensivly to change the world as you play it you would end up feeling very lonely as every player in the zone is on a different phase to each other and no one could interact. I feel that this game is definately a step in the right direction story wise, it's more immersive than wow ever was, but if you were expecting radically different experience then your being a bit deluded. At the end of the day BW is a company that is required to make a profit, which means they will go for the more generic approach than massively different approach due to the fact that they still need to pull an audience and recoup their costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaxFelix Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You're not looking for an MMO. You're looking for a game with even more freedom than Skyrim. This. And the game to which you refer is called "Real Life," as in, some people need to get one. The story line in the one I've created for myself is way too complex, challenging, and stressful. So in my leisurely downtime, I'll take SWTOR, just as it is. For one player, who has voted with his debit card, I am delighted with it as is, FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorbrand Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Since everyone fogot what an MMO is: A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and usually feature at least one persistent world. I wanted to play a MMO! You will never in this game get to play simultaneously with Hundreds or Thousands of players. There sure isn't a persistant world anyway in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 multiplayer game is different than single player game. more at 11:00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jswizzle Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I love this thread. Welcome to RPGS. No game out there gives you freedom whatsoever. You are confined in a box, with rules and limitations based on something called programming. Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_giordino Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 If we look at other MMOs, there's different routes to get to top level, so in those MMOs you basically are creating your own story. Everyone can take their own path to the top, so that by the time you get there, you've developed a unique character that in your mind's eye belongs to you and you alone... Did you know that you can't get quests on a planet before you reach the prescribed level for said planet? I went to Tattooine at 23 and couldn't get quests until I reached level 24. I went to Alderaan at 24 and couldn't get quests. And the "side" quests are bunk because they are only side quests to your main quest....ie only your main quest line takes you to the areas where you'd find side quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloro Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Sometimes I think people do not apply the term "linear" properly anymore. And if you think those "sandbox" games are full of choice and not "linear" then I am right. It is all Illusion of Choice. There have been only so many games that are truly "non-linear" In Skyrim, you can do almost anything you want. But if you want to beat the game? You have to do the quest, just like the devs want you to and in THEIR order. Get over it. No game is really non-linear. This is not a Tabletop RPG, it just doesn't work that way No no no, Skyrim is an open sandbox! That's why I was able to defeat Alduin the first time I met him, and didn't have to go through the whole storyline to befriend the Greybeards and rescue Brom and... oh, right. All joking aside, you're quite right. Truly open sandbox RPGs do not exist and never have. Even the most open and flexible of them have hidden rails that constrain your choices. If you want the freedom to do anything you can imagine, then pen and paper games are your only option, because a DM can let you do things that a video game will not. Having said that, there's a still a spectrum, from having no meaningful choices to having many, and SWTOR clearly falls on the "many" side of that spectrum. Sure, we're not free to just change the story however we want, but at the same time, at least we can affect the outcomes. Yes, our choices are limited, but that's still better than not having any choices. Edited January 12, 2012 by Aloro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizardSF Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Since everyone fogot what an MMO is: A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and usually feature at least one persistent world. I wanted to play a MMO! You will never in this game get to play simultaneously with Hundreds or Thousands of players. There sure isn't a persistant world anyway in the game. That's odd. There were hundreds of people in each of the zones I went to last night -- 150 on Tattooine, 180 in the fleet. I can't think of many, if any, MMOS that can support "thousands" of people in the same zone. Planet==Zone. 150 people on Tattooine is like 150 people in the Barrens, or Goldshire. This is not complex. Each server supports up to, I think, 1500 or 2000 people online at once. Are you honestly telling me that, unless all 2000 are standing right next to you, that it's not an MMO? Because that seems to be your point, such as it is. And how is the world not persistent? Do you actually know what the term means in the MMO context? When I was doing the Czerka artifact quest on Tatooine last night, I felt something I hadn't felt for a long time... other players stealing my kills! It reminded me of EQ, especially when I convinced a few to group with me so we could all kill the boss instead of waiting around for him to spawn 1-by-1. Very little of the game world is actually private instances; there's a lot more open areas where you'll constantly meet other players doing the same quests, but not in your party. Isn't that kind of the definition of an MMORPG? If you pay attention, you'll notice most of the Heroic "group phases" aren't instances, but areas other groups or high level solo players are adventuring in, as well. I wonder, really, how many of the people wasting their time posting here have done more than long in, spend 2 minutes on their first character, then log out and start, basically, making stuff up about the game based on this thing they read written by this guy they know who says he played it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorun Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 and all the fanbois rip into the OP. people relax, he is still paying the sub. @OP as long as you have fun in some way then the money is worth it imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloro Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 If we look at other MMOs, there's different routes to get to top level, so in those MMOs you basically are creating your own story. Everyone can take their own path to the top, so that by the time you get there, you've developed a unique character that in your mind's eye belongs to you and you alone... Nonsense. Utter nonsense. I'm going to guess you've played WoW. Could you head to Northrend at lvl 1 and start questing there? Oh, wait, what's that? You had to do lots of other stuff first? Astonishing. But at least you can have a flying mount immediately there, which gives you the ability to... wait, what? You can't get your transport immediately in that game either? How utterly amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookiethejookie Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I really love Star Wars and in the beginning, I thought everyone on the forums was WRONG and SWTOR was the best thing ever. I've been trying to love SWTOR but the problem is the story and linearity, plus BORING QUEST COMBAT. Welcome to the club, many will be following in your footsteps shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizardSF Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 If we look at other MMOs, there's different routes to get to top level, so in those MMOs you basically are creating your own story. Everyone can take their own path to the top, so that by the time you get there, you've developed a unique character that in your mind's eye belongs to you and you alone... Did you know that you can't get quests on a planet before you reach the prescribed level for said planet? I went to Tattooine at 23 and couldn't get quests until I reached level 24. I went to Alderaan at 24 and couldn't get quests. And the "side" quests are bunk because they are only side quests to your main quest....ie only your main quest line takes you to the areas where you'd find side quests. If you think, "I leveled 10-20 in Zone X, and then 21-30 in Zone Y, which makes me a TOTALLY UNIQUE character because I *could* have leveled 21-30 in Zone Z, instead!" creates more of a unique persona than, "I killed him instead of sparing him, then refused to help that guy, then burned down the village when I could have saved it", well, then... "think" isn't the word I'd use here. I've turned down quests because I realized, "There's no way I'd do that", something WoW never compelled me to do. I can't remember, offhand, any quest I've done in WoW where I had to make a choice and then live with it, learning I'd cut off some paths and opened others, with no way to "redo" the quest to do it a different way. In many cases, I have no idea how the story might evolve or what might have happened, though I guess I could check spoiler sites if I wished; I do not know what might have occurred if I hadn't shook down Juda, but I know what happened because I did, the ungrateful be0tch... (Of course, some stuff is invariably on rails, and it's frustrating to have a companion forced on you, for example, no matter what choice you make. That definitely is inferior to what I'd prefer, and I hope that an expansion corrects this and offers more choice than we have -- but to say we have "no" choice is pretty much factually incorrect.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaad_Losan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 The only game were you could really do anything you wanted at anytime, only limited by skills or equipment was the game this replaced. Star Wars Galaxies. And EvE online. But EvE is brutal, unforgiving and will beat you within an inch of your life. Which many people love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromiie Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Every single Bioware game has illusion of choice not actual decision making. If you want something recent with choices that impact your gameplay and story I recommend Witcher 2. The game actually has quests, npcs or a different zone even depending on your choices but Bioware games do not. Dragon Age and Mass Effect I know don't and neither did Kotor. I can't for the life of me remember NWN or BG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qoojo Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 He left out the most important thing. WoW has a pie vendor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fograw Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 What "choices" did you have in KOTOR that affected the entire end story and outcome? One? Seeing as there really is no set outcome (in an MMO, it's constantly changing anyways), I would suspect there isn't many choices that affect your main path. But, there actually is. I went as a sith inquisitor for my first 50, and: Your alignment up until the end affects both your Darth title, as well as whether you can free the ghosts you have collected or not...which, could easily affect the future narrative of this class, if/when it will ever be developed. Pretty similar, but not as grand, to KOTOR. Difference is, all of your choices from before are taken into account of this path at the end. In KOTOR, there was a specific point in the game where your decision gave you the good or evil ending. Nothing before mattered. Also if you don't use companion gifts at all, your choices directly affect whether you will gain more knowledge of the characters you roll with. You can cheese it by using gifts or grinding affection in flashpoints, but saying it is ALL an illusion is pretty ignorant. It's there, if you actually look beyond the option of grinding these things for the sake of MMO standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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