LFG Tool is NOT Needed

[Taroen]

This is what is really behind the people against the LFG tool. They want to feel special and Elite. They want the purples all to themselves. That elitist attitude is what kills communities, not an LFG tool.

 

This post is interesting too.

 

It shows the real motives of the LFG crowd. They could care less about the content. You're jealous that I have purples..? Really..? If I give them to you will you go away..?

 

I can always get more.

 

Purples are all you guys care about... Popping your queue and rushing in for some easymode loot really makes you feel like you accomplished something..?

[LordAposno]

YES. IT IS.

 

Don't you get it..?

 

The ONLY reason that Blizzard nerfed the heroic modes right after the Cata release was BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE FROM THE TOOL WERE FAILING IT AND CRYING ABOUT IT.

 

You can't drop people in a random group and expect them to complete harder content.

 

They were seeing the content just fine. They just weren't WINNING IT.

 

Dumbing down the content doesn't make it more accessible... It just makes it easier to beat.

 

 

So only an elite small population of people were able to win it? Blizzard made a business decision to affect the larger player base by tuning down the content. Not only did they make the content more accessible but they also made it easier for the majority of players to have a positive outcome. That is a solid business decision. The raids from what I understand were still pretty tough and gradually was tuned down as newer raids were released. Just because it happened there does not mean it will happen here. Two different games, two different companies.

[Buur]

The proof is staring you in the face.

 

They introduced hard content in cataclysm. They even went so far as to place gear checks on the system thinking it would ensure people would be up to the challenge as a result.

 

People could not handle the content, and so they nerfed it, again. Just as they had to before. Why? because people whined and complained and stomped an steamed and threatened to quit and turned their forums into a wasteland until they got what they wanted.

 

Just like they will do here.

 

Just like you and your friends are ALREADY doing here.

 

And you have no proof that a single nerf was a result of LFG. You have no proof that they wouldn't have nerfed it if just random non LFG pugs were wiping on the same content. So again it is pure conjecture on your part. So you should stop.

[Taroen]

Nope. If it was such a flop, then why are people using it? hmmm?

 

Why aren't you over there using it now, if you like it so much..?

[GarbonzotheDude]

The proof is staring you in the face.

 

They introduced hard content in cataclysm. They even went so far as to place gear checks on the system thinking it would ensure people would be up to the challenge as a result.

 

People could not handle the content, and so they nerfed it, again. Just as they had to before. Why? because people whined and complained and stomped an steamed and threatened to quit and turned their forums into a wasteland until they got what they wanted.

 

Just like they will do here.

 

Just like you and your friends are ALREADY doing here.

 

What is really amazing is that you actually thinks this proves your point and don't comprehend how illogical it is.

 

I'm actually quite impressed. I think that leap of yours is comparable to pulling a Super Dave Osborne motorcycle jump over the Grand Canyon.

 

Whew...lol

 

So what exactly is your reasoning for them dumbing down content like they did many times in the past before they had those features?

Edited January 11, 2012 by GarbonzotheDude

[Taroen]

So only an elite small population of people were able to win it? Blizzard made a business decision to affect the larger player base by tuning down the content. Not only did they make the content more accessible but they also made it easier for the majority of players to have a positive outcome. That is a solid business decision. The raids from what I understand were still pretty tough and gradually was tuned down as newer raids were released. Just because it happened there does not mean it will happen here. Two different games, two different companies.

 

Again, dumbing down the content doesn't make it more accessible. People were able to get into it just fine. They just wanted to be able to steamroll it.

 

That's not accessiblity. That's asking the devs to win the game for you.

[LordAposno]

That still fails to show how you are entitled to anything other than to compete in the game. Period. That's all your fifteen dollars buys you.

 

Should bioware make all content do-able solo because there might not be a group available during the hours you play?

 

No... That's foolish, it is a game, it has rules, it has standards, without that it just degenerates.

 

You pay for your chance to play the game that is all. If it isn't a service you enjoy, stop paying for it and choose one that does meet your needs. Like WoW. Please do not force me to play the game you want to play because you have to turn my game into what YOU want.

 

 

 

I am not asking for a change to game play. I am asking for an effective and efficient way to form a group. The great thing about an LFG tool is you don't have to use it. So you are not forced into anything when it gets implemented. I want to play my game and access all my content. In order to do that I need an LFG tool. Don't force me to play your spam chat channels game. I hate to break it to you but Tor will get a LFG tool, it's just a matter of time.

[Vincethejedi]

LFG tool is not needed -_- I have no issue finding groups for anything.

 

I've never understood this argument. You have no need for LFG, therefore no one should?

[savagepotato]

And you have no proof that a single nerf was a result of LFG. You have no proof that they wouldn't have nerfed it if just random non LFG pugs were wiping on the same content. So again it is pure conjecture on your part. So you should stop.

 

It's pointless to even talk to someone that is so locked in to forcing this game into the WoW mold that they will just ignore all reality at every chance to do it.

 

The proof is there, the community and the quality of that game did not degenerate at that level UNTIL the release of the cross server dungeon tool. It led to this in a painfully obvious way.

 

TBC was hard as hell, and they had a LFG tool then, a rudimentary one, Even vanilla had the meeting stones.

 

It was not until it was the instant access lobby for the masses that it became the dumbed down anti-social waste that it is.

[Liathan]

I think the problem that BW faces is that for the most part, except for FP's and heroics, this is really single player game, which is perfectly acceptable. But with that being said, when I'm supposed to do group content, they need to make it easier for me to find a group. I should not spend 20 minutes spamming a chat channel to try and find a group before I finally find one or give up. The simple solution is a match making system, but at a minimum there needs to be a server wide LFG channel. Edited January 11, 2012 by Liathan

[Kurnea]

No you are being really obvious with your trolling, I didn't find it all that subtle at all.

 

I'm more or less saying the exact same things you were saying, but reverse. In case I haven't made my point, using caps and saying words like FACT/PERIOD/END OF DISCUSSION doesn't make your case. If it seemed childish when I said such things to you, keep that in mind when you use that same tactic with others.

 

If you're ready to talk like an adult now, have you ever heard of the post hoc fallacy? Do you understand that simply because you observed two things happen in something, that observation doesn't make it a fact that they are directly related?

[Sargantas]

This is what is really behind the people against the LFG tool. They want to feel special and Elite. They want the purples all to themselves. That elitist attitude is what kills communities, not an LFG tool.

 

Agreed. I've said this manytimes but it is ignored by those who are arguing against lfg. They're 2 arguments are (ruin community and dumb down content) if you present anything else it is ignored. They have no legs to stand on we have disproved that those things are guaranteed results. Arguemrnt is over bioware knows who to side with.

[Taroen]

And you have no proof that a single nerf was a result of LFG. You have no proof that they wouldn't have nerfed it if just random non LFG pugs were wiping on the same content. So again it is pure conjecture on your part. So you should stop.

 

Right... So if you close your eyes, cover your ears and scream LALALALALALALALALA, you can make yourself believe that it never happened.

[Buur]

It's pointless to even talk to someone that is so locked in to forcing this game into the WoW mold that they will just ignore all reality at every chance to do it.

 

The proof is there, the community and the quality of that game did not degenerate at that level UNTIL the release of the cross server dungeon tool. It led to this in a painfully obvious way.

 

TBC was hard as hell, and they had a LFG tool then, a rudimentary one, Even vanilla had the meeting stones.

 

It was not until it was the instant access lobby for the masses that it became the dumbed down anti-social waste that it is.

 

Say it with me now! Conjecture!

[Kurnea]

The proof is there, the community and the quality of that game did not degenerate at that level UNTIL the release of the cross server dungeon tool. It led to this in a painfully obvious way.

 

TBC was hard as hell, and they had a LFG tool then, a rudimentary one, Even vanilla had the meeting stones.

 

It was not until it was the instant access lobby for the masses that it became the dumbed down anti-social waste that it is.

 

Ad hoc fallacy. Please look this up and study it a bit.

[Buur]

Right... So if you close your eyes, cover your ears and scream LALALALALALALALALA, you can make yourself believe that it never happened.

 

And if you keep repeating something to yourself over and over again you can eventually believe it is true.

[bboudreaux]

Here is why....

 

I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way.

 

So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no.

 

EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild.

 

Amen Brother!

 

the LFG tool is just something else people have to complain about .. remember, these people are not happy unless they are complaining

[Taroen]

I've never understood this argument. You have no need for LFG, therefore no one should?

 

That's right, Vince... Because if he can do it, so can you.

 

You just don't want to. You want Bioware to do it for you.

[Moricthian]

Let me get this straight, rather than adding "its a fact" at the end of your posts, lets try dealing with the actual arguments.

 

Anti-LFG people are afraid that an LFG tool will lead to the dumbing down of content as more pugs get access to the game.

 

Pro-LFG people are afraid that if an LFG tool isn't implemented, they simply won't have access to the game as getting groups takes forever (that fact that it doesn't take forever for you personally is irrelevant)

 

I think Anti - LFG people are making some assumptions here that don't hav any evidence. First they argue that LFG tool will lead to content nerfs as pugs will need to be able to do them. Heres the thing, flashpoint content will always need to be puggable. If flashpoint content is so difficult that only a guild run with voice chat for easy coordination can do it, BW will see a massive drop in Flashpoint parcipation. Flashpoint content needs to be easy enough that a pick up group can do it, otherwise the a ton of people will be barred from the content, decreasing their interest in the game and decreasing revenue for BW.

 

Here's the nuance of the argument that Anti-LFG people arn't getting. Just becasue a flashpoint is easy enough for a pug to complete, doesn't mean its faceroll. It is very possible for pugs to coordinate and complete content if they play well together and know their classes.

 

Here's why the LFG tool is good. LFG won't increase the likelyhood of pugs as most groups now are pugs anyway. When you go to the fleet and spam LFG or "be social" you usually get random people to join your group. As soon as the group is formed, you enter the flashpoint and talk strategy and tactics as you go in order to complete the content. This is how the system works now and flashpoints (with the exception of hardmodes as we are still low on 50s and even the 50s we do have are still getting gear). Right now the content is easy enough for pugs to complete, they just have to be smart about it.

 

Where the anti LFG people err is they assume that if an LFG tool is implemented, this level of coordinated play will decrease. While this is possible, it is by no means garunteed. They tend to quote their WOW experience as clear prove of this. The problem with this line of thinking is that everyone had different experiences using the WOW lfg tool. Some people got placed in horrible groups while others didn't see too many problems. This wide variety of experience makes any absolute claim of group quality from WOW suspect. Personal experience alone is not enough to prove that WOW's LFG lead to worse play and dumbing down of content considering every claim you make can simply be refuted by another who claims their LFG experience was just fine.

 

So here's the bottom line. A LFG will to more people experiencing flashpoint content more often as groups will be easier to form. This is all LFG does. It doesn't actually lead to the dumbing down of content, bad players and minimal coordination do that. In our current system, we still have pug groups that can either perform well or perform poorly. An in-server LFG tool won't change the quality of Pug groups, just the rate in which they occur.

 

From a business standpoint, BW wants to increase subs and maintain those subs. Decreasing the time people spend forming groups and increasing time people spend doing group content will ultimately less boring experience for a lot of players. This will make it more likely the will stay subbing and keep giving BW their money.

 

Therefore, it would be a prudent financial decision to add at least an in server LFG tool.

 

TL;DR - Pugs are pugs whether they are formed with an LFG tool or through the old fashion way. Flashpoints need to be puggable (but not faceroll)or not enough people will do them

[savagepotato]

Right... So if you close your eyes, cover your ears and scream LALALALALALALALALA, you can make yourself believe that it never happened.

 

These people are a waste of time.

 

Take my advice and find something more productive to do than watching them deny reality on epic levels to spin what they want and turn the game into WoW 2.

[Liathan]

It's pointless to even talk to someone that is so locked in to forcing this game into the WoW mold that they will just ignore all reality at every chance to do it.

 

The proof is there, the community and the quality of that game did not degenerate at that level UNTIL the release of the cross server dungeon tool. It led to this in a painfully obvious way.

 

TBC was hard as hell, and they had a LFG tool then, a rudimentary one, Even vanilla had the meeting stones.

 

It was not until it was the instant access lobby for the masses that it became the dumbed down anti-social waste that it is.

 

 

lol, really? I love when people blame LFD for the death of the WoW community. Guess what, WoW never had anything but a crappy community of people using one another to get what they wanted, LFD just meant you didn't need to hide your true intentions. Give people anonymity and the chance to be an *** and they will go for it.

[LordAposno]

YES! IT SHOULD!

 

MMOs are social games. Finding a group to do group content IS a part of that.

 

 

 

Yes I agree, key word social. The current system does not encourage anything social. The best way to make it social is to allow easy group creation. Creating groups should be encouraged and easy to accomplish.

[Kurnea]

These people are a waste of time.

 

Take my advice and find something more productive to do than watching them deny reality on epic levels to spin what they want and turn the game into WoW 2.

 

Have you looked up what an ad hoc fallacy is yet?

[Liathan]

Yes I agree, key word social. The current system does not encourage anything social. The best way to make it social is to allow easy group creation. Creating groups should be encouraged and easy to accomplish.

 

here here

[savagepotato]

Have you looked up what an ad hoc fallacy is yet?

 

Have you finished your trolling yet?