Khoranth Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Even with the absence of those "heavy handed votekicks", the fear of the lack of accountability would remain. That's what I meant by separate. Now you can find a link between them, but again, in many other LFD threads that popped since the EGA, the votekick point was hardly mentioned. Way to deflect the subject here and your generalization. I contend that with an unrestricted votekick system, an LFD would have accountability, I strongly believe that the reason people acted like jerks so often in WoW's LFD is because they were protected by the restrictions on the votekick system. There is definitely a connection between heavy handed votekick restrictions and accountability. Would you care to address that point? or do you want to type more nonsense and continue to dodge the point I am making? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Either LFG in chat and pug, join a guild, or make some friends. No game needs a auto feature to make a party. Stop being unsocial and lazy and do it yourself. You made no valid points. Try again, this already got proven to be false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How exactly do you expect people to practice a flashpoint without being able to get a group for it. You know why WoW dungeons seems easier? Because people actually got to see them and learn them. They knew what to do the next time they went in there.+1 Also you're making too much sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It could easily be argued that the 180 from wrath to cata alienated the casuals and thats where the decline is coming from. Again, you could have a point... Except that the casuals got their way, didn't they? Blizzard turned the full 360 back to easymode content when the casuals hit the level cap and discovered that heroics might take a little more cooperation and thought than they were used to. They found out that a random group of 5 couldn't just faceroll through it all, and they cried a storm. Blizzard caved to them. Why would the decline come from the people that Blizzard is catering to...? Don't get me wrong. I'm sure a lot of their drop is from casuals, too. But casuals don't usually even find out about a game if the hardcore aren't fanatical about it, to a degree. That the harder core players are less enthusiastic about it is certain to rub off in some ways. And... PANDAS...?! Really..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Watch, flashpoints will get nerfed before a LFD tool comes out... then they can finally shut up that the root cause is the tool. But they don't need to get nerfed. You said they were so faceroll that anyone could do them, right..? They wouldn't nerf it unless those at the top of the curve were done with it and casuals were having problems completing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Again, you could have a point... Except that the casuals got their way, didn't they? Blizzard turned the full 360 back to easymode content when the casuals hit the level cap and discovered that heroics might take a little more cooperation and thought than they were used to. They found out that a random group of 5 couldn't just faceroll through it all, and they cried a storm. Blizzard caved to them. Why would the decline come from the people that Blizzard is catering to...? Don't get me wrong. I'm sure a lot of their drop is from casuals, too. But casuals don't usually even find out about a game if the hardcore aren't fanatical about it, to a degree. That the harder core players are less enthusiastic about it is certain to rub off in some ways. And... PANDAS...?! Really..? Whats wrong with pandas? They are in the lore and it's what people asked for. It's more like it's about time we get monks and pandas. Also, the reason why they changed it is because new content was coming out and they needed the avg person to be able to farm to see the content. That is what makes wow such a great game. They want everyone to see the hard work and content they make. They want the avg joe to be able to log on for a few hours and get things done. That is what sets wow above everything even after seven years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I contend that with an unrestricted votekick system, an LFD would have accountability, I strongly believe that the reason people acted like jerks so often in WoW's LFD is because they were protected by the restrictions on the votekick system. There is definitely a connection between heavy handed votekick restrictions and accountability. Would you care to address that point? or do you want to type more nonsense and continue to dodge the point I am making? I already addressed your point. There is a connection yes. But not to the extent you claim. People acted like jerks more because of the kinda anonymity given by the cross server structure. Regardless of a votekick or not. You could ninja at the end of the dungeon, and the votekick has little effect to no effect on that. Accountability has then more to do with a bad/good reputation, than the fear of being kicked. Again separate. Stop trolling and contribute in a constructive way instead of sentences stupidly generalizing: "the LDF crowd won't never accept..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheinland Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Again, you could have a point... Except that the casuals got their way, didn't they? Blizzard turned the full 360 back to easymode content when the casuals hit the level cap and discovered that heroics might take a little more cooperation and thought than they were used to. They found out that a random group of 5 couldn't just faceroll through it all, and they cried a storm. Blizzard caved to them. Why would the decline come from the people that Blizzard is catering to...? Don't get me wrong. I'm sure a lot of their drop is from casuals, too. But casuals don't usually even find out about a game if the hardcore aren't fanatical about it, to a degree. That the harder core players are less enthusiastic about it is certain to rub off in some ways. And... PANDAS...?! Really..? They locked items behind raids which would be have been fine if it wasnt a complete turn around. Maybe its been to long but i thought the nerfs to heroics didnt come until the firelands patch which was how long after they started seeing a big decline in subs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The Cata heroics even after the nerf I find it a lot more enjoyable, and tougher. I mean it's not like mmos are hard itself, but the hard mode in this game is really easy because the classes themselves are pretty basic compare to wow. With how the classes are setup (Imo a very simpler version of wow classes some like mara even have a lot of the same moves) and how simple the content is right now. This game right now is design for people who are new to mmos. It's pretty face roll easy. I mean I'm sure it will change in the future, but don't act like wow is so easy, when this game itself is even more so. I agree that the content is easier than it should be, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's easier than WoW heroics. Drop random people into the hardmode flashpoints and when they start completing it on a regular basis with no wipes or no one even getting killed, get back to me... because that's how easy WoW heroics are. We're not there with this game yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortoises Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The only LFG tool I like and would work in this game is one styled like the DDO LFG tool. All it is, is a nice interface that you can list your group in. When you form a group you can choose drop down menus for the dungeon you want and max of each class you will allow and things like that, and you also have a nice box to type a message in. To me, when I open up that LFG pane, I can just scroll down the list mousing over each group and see what they want, who is in the group, and their message and what they want to run. If I click Join group, the leader will see my desire to join and can either accept it or deny it. They would get a message like "Tortoises level 25 Sentinel wants to join your group" Once the group is full, there is no Porting to instance, but you can see your group members on the map, then you just head off to the instance. It keeps the server community alive, it allows for World PvP along the way, and keeps the adventure in the game. All it does is remove the need to spam "LFG blah blah blah1" over and over. So if they were going to consider any type of LFG tool for the game, I can only hope that this will be the ultimate iteration of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I already addressed your point. There is a connection yes. But not to the extent you claim. People acted like jerks more because of the kinda anonymity given by the cross server structure. Regardless of a votekick or not. You could ninja at the end of the dungeon, and the votekick has little effect to no effect on that. Accountability has then more to do with a bad/good reputation, than the fear of being kicked. Again separate. Stop trolling and contribute in a constructive way instead of sentences stupidly generalizing: "the LDF crowd won't never accept..." Well that is your opinion, while i agree that cross server contributes to bad behavior, i still feel the heavy handed votekick restrictions contribute even more. Care to address my other point? Would you be for a LFd sytem with lets say no votekick restrictions if you queue alone, minor restrictions for 2 people queueing, and no votekick for 3 people queueing ( to also prevent griefing). Therefore, if you queue alone, you can initiate a votekick at anytime, requiring all 3 players to vote Yes, and if you queue with 2, you would have some restrictions for votekick initiation. but not heavy handed like WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 They locked items behind raids which would be have been fine if it wasnt a complete turn around. Maybe its been to long but i thought the nerfs to heroics didnt come until the firelands patch which was how long after they started seeing a big decline in subs? Oh... nah. The nerfs hit the heroics shortly after the casual crowd hit level cap. The forums were awash with tears, and Blizzard started dumbing down the content. I quit just before the Firelands patch. Are you telling me that they nerfed them even MORE...?! Crazy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I agree that the content is easier than it should be, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's easier than WoW heroics. Drop random people into the hardmode flashpoints and when they start completing it on a regular basis with no wipes or no one even getting killed, get back to me... because that's how easy WoW heroics are. We're not there with this game yet. You still get that in wow, people still fail the heroics. If you was talking about wrath heroics where we all just aoe farmed everything. I could understand your points, but cata heroics you still have to put forth effort. People had plenty of time to play them and now it is easier, but that is the same with any game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhere Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Please give us LFG and cross-server warzones. Also dual-specs. #christmaswishlist2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volksworgen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) haha people claiming stuff here with no proof. You need to have a warrant for your claim and almost 100% of you don't. I can do this too, "I have played WoW for 7 years and right after they announced LFG, it destroyed the community and now I have no one to cyber with ......" Yeah it's that easy to pull **** out. Edited January 11, 2012 by Volksworgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well that is your opinion, while i agree that cross server contributes to bad behavior, i still feel the heavy handed votekick restrictions contribute even more. Care to address my other point? Would you be for a LFd sytem with lets say no votekick restrictions if you queue alone, minor restrictions for 2 people queueing, and no votekick for 3 people queueing ( to also prevent griefing). Therefore, if you queue alone, you can initiate a votekick at anytime, requiring all 3 players to vote Yes, and if you queue with 2, you would have some restrictions for votekick initiation. but not heavy handed like WOW.Since I really do not care at all about the votekick implementation and parameters, I'd say yes. That's really a very minor point for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tueland Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A LFG tool is not needed, but it would be nice to have one IF i was server only, and NOT cross-server.. Thats whats wrong with the LFG tool in WoW, people ninja, say w/e they want etc cuz their not going to meet the people in that group anymore so who cares.. If its server only people will get know for doing stuff like that and end up getting kicked from groups, guilds, raids etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Since I really do not care at all about the votekick implementation and parameters, I'd say yes. That's really a very minor point for me. Well it is the biggest sticking point for me. And since the main reason people hate LFD is lack of accountability, i think it's the biggest sticking point for the majority, even if you don't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So you say hell no eh... Well i say HELL YES to the LFG tool hope they add it has soon has possible and if needed make it go cross server.You blame the tool for the people behavior , i blame the people for the people behavior lol. And anyway now with the companion thing ingame people are already going ninja. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A LFG tool is not needed, but it would be nice to have one IF i was server only, and NOT cross-server.. Thats whats wrong with the LFG tool in WoW, people ninja, say w/e they want etc cuz their not going to meet the people in that group anymore so who cares.. If its server only people will get know for doing stuff like that and end up getting kicked from groups, guilds, raids etc People did that before the LFD also on servers. Sure they got a bad rep for it, but most of the time the people was in a raiding guild, and did not care. Also, I like meeting people from other servers, I get tired of hanging out with same people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Whats wrong with pandas? They are in the lore and it's what people asked for. It's more like it's about time we get monks and pandas. Also, the reason why they changed it is because new content was coming out and they needed the avg person to be able to farm to see the content. That is what makes wow such a great game. They want everyone to see the hard work and content they make. They want the avg joe to be able to log on for a few hours and get things done. That is what sets wow above everything even after seven years. They probably should have added it sooner, when people who actually cared about the lore were asking for it. But they refused over and over again, and not a whole lot of people care about it now. You could log into this game for a few hours and get things done, if you didn't see other people as just a means to get your next shiny. I played a lot last night and into today, and when I thought I was going to end my marathon session with a marathon sleep, something made me decide to read the forums for a bit and THAT turned into a marathon. But if I logged on right now, I bet I could get something good done in your desired time frame. But for some reason you think that all my suggestions to you won't work. Actually, I think it's just because you know I'm right and just don't want to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheinland Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Oh... nah. The nerfs hit the heroics shortly after the casual crowd hit level cap. The forums were awash with tears, and Blizzard started dumbing down the content. I quit just before the Firelands patch. Are you telling me that they nerfed them even MORE...?! Crazy... Its alright pugs still cant make it through the za/zg heroics without failing or at least it was that way a month ago. It should be the developers determining when to nerf content. If they want to nerf it at the next current patch so more can see the previous content thats their decision. If they want to keep everything difficult and only 1% ever see the end raid then so be it. A tool shouldnt be used to justify nerfs. The tool is for getting groups together in a more efficient manner. It doesnt guarantee your completion of the flashpoint/dungeon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Psst... all you anti-LFG people. http://www.forcejunkies.com/2011/12/10/ign-speaks-with-james-ohlen/ On a Dungeon Finder: IGN: Moving forward might there be something like a group finder or something like that? An auto-finder implemented into the game? James Ohlen: Some people ask for a dungeon finder system but the thing about those systems is they’re really for more of a mature online game. If you put a system in early on it really takes away from the exploration of the level up game. If you have people all just basically waiting around their dungeon finder and all being grouped up together, they’re going to actually take the time to explore all the worlds that are available in the Old Republic galaxy. So it’s definitely a feature that we want to put in, we just want to put it in at the right time. However, the looking for group feature is something that we continue to work on, we want to make that more robust and more powerful. So we’ll eventually see a dungeon finder but at the right time. This is the first time we’re learning the reason why they are holding off on this system. Edited January 11, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well it is the biggest sticking point for me. And since the main reason people hate LFD is lack of accountability, i think it's the biggest sticking point for the majority, even if you don't agree. That's your opinion. Throughout all the other LFD threads I've taken part into, that's not what I noticed. Also we already covered that. I don't know why you want absolutely want to merge your votekick thingy with the accountability. Again there is a correlation but they are not confused and making one. It's like an obsession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volksworgen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A LFG tool is not needed, but it would be nice to have one IF i was server only, and NOT cross-server.. Thats whats wrong with the LFG tool in WoW, people ninja, say w/e they want etc cuz their not going to meet the people in that group anymore so who cares.. If its server only people will get know for doing stuff like that and end up getting kicked from groups, guilds, raids etc WoW has created enough requirements to prevent people from going ninja. If you are not the right class for something you can't need on it(except for DEing or greeding). And you are absolutely wrong about "say w/e they want" part because that can happen to you within a server too. These are all assumptions and made up stuff. If all that happens in WoW that often then why is this game having like 10+ million subs? All those people must be stupid for staying there if few hundred here say that this and that in WoW killed the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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