HanzoV Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No you are saying someone else's needs come before mine. We are all equals. Not if the other players are being considerate, and only rolling need on what their actual player character can use while you roll need for a bot that may or not even be assisting in the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KippTabor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) TOR's system of generating loot is determined by what class-role the people in the instance are. Which means the only time an Imperial Agent-Sniper gear piece is going to drop is if you have one in your group. One should have the common courtesy to let the person in your group who that gear dropped for have first choice and if it turns out he has a better piece and doesn't need it then it's fine. ^^This x1000 Also folks: let's not assume that anyone complaining about companion looters didn't set ground rules first. Most of the groups I have been in do (and it seems that the higher I get in level, the more groups do set loot rules), and I have seen at least 2 people get booted for ninjaing, one just 2 nights ago while doing Athiss on an alt that I play with a friend from Europe. Another dude left the group in a group I was with a week or so back, because he wanted to be able to loot whatever he pleased, even though the FP generates the drop type based upon what classes are in the FP. Good riddance to him! If you want FP gear for your companions, then find a like-minded person and run it with just you two and your pets. Problem solved, if you can survive the FP without 4 players. Edited January 10, 2012 by KippTabor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Someone brought this up before, maybe even within this thread but I support the idea of a "companion" roll button. So it would be: Need > Companion > Greed Simple solution. That really wouldn't change things. As people would have to be willing to click it. The issue really isn't the interface, it's the fact that there are people that do not see their companions as separate from their main character, and there are some that do. Those are competing views and they are both valid for people to have. Just make sure you're hunting with the folks that share your views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Not if the other players are being considerate, and only rolling need on what their actual player character can use while you roll need for a bot that may or not even be assisting in the group. That is your opinion on how group loot should be distributed and you should definitely make this known with every group you run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandadoum Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) TOR's system of generating loot is determined by what class-role the people in the instance are. wrong. done craploads of flashpoints with no agent whatsoever and agent loot dropping all the time. my guildmates complain everytime i dont come t ohardmode lvl50 flashpoints, because it's dropping bounty hunter stuff all over the place... where does people get their screwed ideas from? and more importantly, why do they feel the need to share their clueless crap and pray on it as if it was gospel? Edited January 10, 2012 by zandadoum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahana Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Excellent point. I forgot about this. Further nullifies the non-sensical anti-companion argument. Please tell me what Heroics or Flashpoints where 4 people are required where I can use my companion??? And if you needed on an item running a two man, I'd kick you in a heart beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbonez Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) That really wouldn't change things. As people would have to be willing to click it. The issue really isn't the interface, it's the fact that there are people that do not see their companions as separate from their main character, and there are some that do. Those are competing views and they are both valid for people to have. Just make sure you're hunting with the folks that share your views. RE: Companion button OK, I see that it wouldn't solve the entire problem. But that button would take the guess work out for newbies and some pugs. It would also be a statement from BW saying that companions are separate from players. So maybe that's why there isn't one. BW doesn't want to make that statement, they want the players to play the way they want, and figure it out amongst ourselves. Edited January 10, 2012 by Badbonez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splitquick Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I am honestly amazed at this thread and the people who truly believe rolling on an item they can't immediately equip is "ok". All the logical people have already spoken very valid points about why you should NOT roll need on something your companion needs, but I'll revisit a few points. 1. Companions do not participate in the flashpoint at the time the loot drops. - I really don't care if you believe your companion "IS YOUR MAIN" like marmalade keeps spouting off. No it isn't. Your main is the character you are controlling which contributed to the success of the group. Your companion did nothing to help OUR group. 2. Rolling need for your companion, NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT, is SELFISH. - This of course has it's exceptions, such as NO HUMAN PC needed the item. How can you sit there and be satisfied with yourself in the following scenario: ~Heavy armor drops. The HEAVY ARMOR WEARING tank says "oh wow that's a HUGE upgrade for me!" You (let's say you're a sorc), roll need. You win the roll. The heavy armor wearing tank asks why you rolled need.... You say... here it comes.... It's for Khem Val. It honestly urks me that you don't in any way feel bad about that? For me personally, even if it's a PUG, when I see someone get to upgrade a piece of equipment, I'm happy for them, give them a grats! in chat and hope I also get an upgrade during the run. 3. WE ALL HAVE COMPANIONS. - If one or two classes had a pet/companion and their DPS, even while grouped, depended on the gearing of their pet/companion it would be a different story. 4. Companions help you while you play SOLO, which some of you admit is most of the time you play. So you know what? Why don't you spend your SOLO time to gear up your companion. This is a topic that has been a discussion in every MMO I've ever played, and not once have I seen so many people think it was OK to be a selfish douche. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzoV Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) That is your opinion on how group loot should be distributed and you should definitely make this known with every group you run. Yeah, I never claimed it was gospel. It was pretty clear from my first post ("My personal feelings are...") that these are my views. Good luck to you...and to those that group with you. Edited January 10, 2012 by HanzoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 COMPANIONS ARE NOT "YOU" UNLESS YOUR GROUP REQUIRES YOU TO USE IT. If there are 3 other players in your group, then your companion isn't doing anything. Someone answer me this..... If it's ok to need for companions...can I need for my friends who aren't currently in group? They help me progress through the game too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbonez Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is a topic that has been a discussion in every MMO I've ever played, and not once have I seen so many people think it was OK to be a selfish douche. Wow. This is the first MMO I've played that had companions, not just alts, but companions. So for me, this is an interesting argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) RE: Companion button OK, I see that it wouldn't solve the entire problem. But that button would take the guess work out for newbies and some pugs. It would also be a statement from BW saying that companions are separate from players. So maybe that's why there isn't one. BW doesn't want to make that statement, they want the players to play the way they want, and figure it out amongst ourselves. -nods- Yeah, I think so too. The companion aspect is a paradigm shift, one of the innovative things BW did, that people will get used to as time passes. Right now, just let folks know your stance when you group and the issue should be minimal. You being anyone in general. Edited January 10, 2012 by Vydor_HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadEdward Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No one has ever made a compelling arugment that says that one player, just because of their choice of classes, has a greater right to a dropped piece of gear than anyone else in the group. Yes, need is unnecessary and overly complicates this situation. There is a thread about this every other day and they all go to a 1000 pages because the community is split, maybe not evenly but still split, on how this is supposed to work. make the choices roll or pass and remove bind on pickup. End of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I hate having stupid rules, but we almost need it so if your archtype can't use then you can't roll anything except greed. BTW people, this is the same arguement people are using against dungeon finder, yet it's happening constantly before it even exists. Guess the "community" everyone is trying so hard to save, never existed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahana Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 make the choices roll or pass and remove bind on pickup. End of argument. Why should those be the choices.. That is just caving into the cheese monkeys that think its cute to use the common excuse instead of being called a ninja... Same people just disguised differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splitquick Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is the first MMO I've played that had companions, not just alts, but companions. So for me, this is an interesting argument. I agree but it is undeniable that the companion is NOT PARTICIPATING during the need roll. The companion is also NOT USED in the group setting that this discussion pertains to. I have NEVER had any difficulty gearing up my companions from quest/bought items and CERTAINLY not to the point that I would override someone in my group just to gear a PET. No matter how you put it, it comes down to that you want your PET to take precedence over a PLAYER CHARACTER that actively contributed to the REASON why the loot dropped in the first place. Which lends itself to the fact that the player who chooses that route IS being selfish. Companion = Solo So gear him while you're playing solo. Don't deny me a group-earned equipment upgrade because after we're done grouping you want to go play solo with better equipment on your pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is the first MMO I've played that had companions, not just alts, but companions. So for me, this is an interesting argument. It's a completely new paradigm, and people are arguing like there's some kind of precedent for this. There is none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkdayze Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Unfortunetly for me it was the last boss. It's a douche bag move that I have seen before in other MMOs. There is no recourse when they decide to dick you on the last boss other then to spam in general chat that they are a ninja looting douch. Laying ground rules every time you start an instance is neither practical nor needed since the consencus of the comunity is not to role need on items you can't use. And now you wonder why people keep asking for LFD tools. You can now take note of this name, and never group with him again! We can't do that with a cross server LFD tool. Ironic, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What's funny is I'm sure half the people saying "I NEED FOR COMPANION" would ragequit if someone took their "main toons" upgrade...It's just playing selfishly. In single player games it's ok to "me me me" but since you can't solo the flashpoint...stop being an *** and share. =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I had this happen to me. I promptly ignored said player, left the group (which disintegrated after I left) and went on. If someone does that, they are already too selfish/stupid to say sorry or anything. They'll just leave or start cursing. No need to waste finger movement and type for these idiots. Simple do this. In my case i offer the option to kick the guy , if they do not , i leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 COMPANIONS ARE NOT "YOU" UNLESS YOUR GROUP REQUIRES YOU TO USE IT. If there are 3 other players in your group, then your companion isn't doing anything. Someone answer me this..... If it's ok to need for companions...can I need for my friends who aren't currently in group? They help me progress through the game too... Companions are an integral part of your overall character. They are not your friends, they are not your alts. COMPANIONS ARE YOU. See, I can state an opinion as fact as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 And now you wonder why people keep asking for LFD tools. You can now take note of this name, and never group with him again! We can't do that with a cross server LFD tool. Ironic, isn't it? It's already happening without LFD and people don't seem to care. So what harm would bringing the system do? Can't really get worse than 2-3 topics a day about ninja looting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ukucia Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I wish the would add a companion button for loot rolls. Need -> Companion -> Greed/Disassemble. Need and Companion rolls automatically make items bound. Need and Companion buttons only light up and become live if you can use it, or if your companion can. By endgame, you have companions that can use pretty much every weapon and armor type. So you're not going to protect against ninjas disabling that button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democratus Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 My personal feeling is people (REAL people) come first. That does not include your companions and alts. Your character is not a real person. It is a fictional construct that only exists in the game - just like the companions. Don't confuse a player with a character/companion/NPC or any other imaginary thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Companions are an integral part of your overall character. They are not your friends, they are not your alts. COMPANIONS ARE YOU. See, I can state an opinion as fact as well. Do you use a companion in every flashpoint? NO?!?!?! Ok then you're just being selfish =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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