Catch_TwentyTwo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Protip: If you need a companion at all to do anything but group content, you're doing it wrong. Nothing in this game is that challenging.Oh rly... Comment like this from the "PROs" just make me want to weyt my knick knicks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KippTabor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think that the people getting bent-out-of-shape over the use of the term "ninja" are revealing something about themselves without intending to do so... :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No it was not. Your opinion of ninja'ing loot is not correct. PLEASE know what you are talking about beforehand. Well then Mr. Ninja...What's it called? =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomedae Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I will say, on the third hand, if you'd established the agreed-upon rules at the beginning and he/she violated them... You have every right to be upset. He/she breached his/her word and is an untrustworthy jerk. . Offtopic a bit but I had to butt in here. It's a board for a SF game, and I feel you missed an excellent opportunity to use a SF meme here. "On the third hand" would normally be "On the gripping hand". Look it up, keyword Niven :-P I'll let y'all get back to this pointless flamewarring now, just had to bring in a bit of fandom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhluo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 So I go to work during the day, while my wife is staying home cooking, cleaning, looking after the kids etc. Should the company pay my wife for making my life easier? Flash point = your job. Companion = your wife. Your companion helps you level, but doesn't contribute to the flash point. No contribution = no pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KippTabor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Offtopic a bit but I had to butt in here. It's a board for a SF game, and I feel you missed an excellent opportunity to use a SF meme here. "On the third hand" would normally be "On the gripping hand". Look it up, keyword Niven :-P I'll let y'all get back to this pointless flamewarring now, just had to bring in a bit of fandom. I loved the Long Arm, good catch! I'm reading betrayer of worlds currently, enjoying it. One of my toons is named after a character in the book. See my signature Edited January 10, 2012 by KippTabor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch_TwentyTwo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Perhaps you should only ever do FPs with friends. Problem solved. I am not going to change what I do because you don't like it. Better get used to this kind of play or like I said, only ever play with friends.Well right back at ya. Funny thing is that over the last 2 weeks I have contributed to this topic in a number of threads, but have NEVER ninja'ed anything, ever, in this game or any other I have played. That said, I stand by my comments. In 3 months time, when everyone has got their gear sorted out and we get the first big expansion, suddenly everyones tune will change when they realise that perhaps they need to regear thier companions because they do count in the majority of this gameworld.... Till then I'll do FP and other group content with by guildmates, as we have done in other games for several years, where we agree things up front and everyone works for the good of the guild. I have no fear of being blacklisted; most of you probably don't even play on the same server as I do, but don't ask me for my name and guild, because I would not want you to blacklist the guild over my OPINIONS... Sure, if you ever come across me and don't like my ACTIONS, then have at it, but until then, you got nothing to complain about other than not liking to debate deffering opinions. You're not right I'm not right No one is right, because it's gonna be moot very shortly anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch_TwentyTwo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 So I go to work during the day, while my wife is staying home cooking, cleaning, looking after the kids etc. Should the company pay my wife for making my life easier? Flash point = your job. Companion = your wife. Your companion helps you level, but doesn't contribute to the flash point. No contribution = no pay.I feel sorry for your poor, destitute wife.... Spousal abuse can be so cruel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosKnightV Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 To my understanding when you NINJA loot; you basically run up and steal it This was common before loot became linked to the party that killed it. You could kill a mob and someone could just run up to your mob and loot it. Now the only way to do that is to loot the body then cancel your looting (or everyone passes) it turns it into public loot. Lord of the Rings Online , when you would farm and create crop fields it was a huge NO NO to loot someone's cropfield while they were planting. Any random person could come up with farming tools and steal the mats. (No one was silly enough to actually try that though) **When you roll on something you don't need it really is just being a jerk. You aren't ninja'ing the loot as you have the right to say NEED. You're just being a " J E R K " This is why when i play Lord of the Rings Online the party leader immediately would set up MASTER LOOTER. Anything of extreme value (often boss loot) is not rolled on by people independantly (where someone could roll need last second). Instead the item is automatically given to the party leader in a Queue. The party leader then can determine how to roll and divide up the loot. Only flaw in this system is a corrupt party leader but the odds of someone exploiting the NEED/GREED system is drastically reduced by having a MASTER LOOTER option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 ninja looter 1) (n) (MMORPG) A player who loots and/or attempts to loot items (usually of significant rarity and value) without the permission of the group, especially one who loots items designed for other classes or one who loots all items of value immediately prior to leaving the group/raid/guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) ninja looter 1) (n) (MMORPG) A player who loots and/or attempts to loot items (usually of significant rarity and value) without the permission of the group, especially one who loots items designed for other classes or one who loots all items of value immediately prior to leaving the group/raid/guild. Luckily this does not apply to looting for companions. Thanks for the definition, was waiting for someone to finally post that. Edited January 10, 2012 by Aisar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch_TwentyTwo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 ninja looter 1) (n) (MMORPG) A player who loots and/or attempts to loot items (usually of significant rarity and value) without the permission of the group, especially one who loots items designed for other classes or one who loots all items of value immediately prior to leaving the group/raid/guild. Is a good description, but I think it is somewhat our of step with the way SWTOR works, as you effectively have two classes; yours and your companions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Luckily this does not apply to looting for companions. Thanks for the definition, was waiting for someone to finally post that. Nice job waiting for me to post it Mr.Ninja. Knew you wouldn't yourself. =) It does apply because you are taking loot from someONE who needs it....not a glorified pet... Hence "ninja'ing it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profaneascension Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm totally fine with someone rolling Need on an item for their companion so long as no one else in the group needs it. And I applaud those who will actually state their intention to do so. However, as regards to someone who feels that their companions have as much right to the loot as a player who needs the upgrade, whether or not their companion participated in the fight, there's a very good reason why they will never reveal their identities or their intention to do so prior to rolling. On the forums, no matter how passionately they espouse their view (which inevitably boils down to "I need what I need and you can't stop me"), they know that kind of attitude would get them kicked from the group, or worse, their names blacklisted. If they feel so strongly that they are in the right, then they would let their group know what they intend to do before proceeding with the encounter. Their failure to do so is what makes them ninjas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch_TwentyTwo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Nice job waiting for me to post it Mr.Ninja. Knew you wouldn't yourself. =) It does apply because you are taking loot from someONE who needs it....not a glorified pet... Hence "ninja'ing it".One day all you Wow types will grow up and realise that a companion is so far removed from a pet... Anyhoo, I'll leave you people to continue this quite pointless debate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I'm gonna make one last post on this topic, because it's all just getting too heated. First, I'm well aware of the position of those against rolling need on companions. I too played other mmos and am quite familiar with the concept of the ninja. If someone rolls need on the boe, they darn well better equip it now. If I'm in a raid, the main will get precedence over the alt or off-spec. I completely understand this perspective. However, as I have stated numerous times throughout this thread, this is the first mainstream mmo where your companion is an important part of your character. It makes sense to outfit the companion as best you can, because it can quite dramatically improve the overall power of your character, and most of the game is outside of the instance environment. This is a change from the norm, a new paradigm as I've said over and over ad naseum. I believe that this new paradigm is something that is clearly hard for a lot of people here to grasp. Over time, they will likely either defect back to wow or understand and eventually accept the new paradigm. I stand by my position that gearing your companion is NOT a ninja loot. I stand by my position that the entire point of going into a dungeon is to gear your character, and in this game your character includes your companion. It does not matter that the companion is not participating in the group encounter, it is still a crucial part of your overall character. You may not agree and have every right not to agree, and I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with you. Neither of us will back from our positions, so it's going to be best left as agreeing to disagree. If you feel that it is in your best interests to blacklist me from your grouping activities in the future, feel free to do so. You won't have to worry about me and my interpretation of companions, and I won't have to worry about you. I am certain I will find plenty of other people to play with that understand the importance of companions. In the end, we'll both be somewhat happy, despite the fact that our pool of potential group members is diminished. So I'll just let it go at that. Flame on as you wish... Edited January 10, 2012 by Marlaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Nice job waiting for me to post it Mr.Ninja. Knew you wouldn't yourself. =) It does apply because you are taking loot from someONE who needs it....not a glorified pet... Hence "ninja'ing it". I roll need on gear for my companion so she can tank elites/champions/strongs and I can heal her. So I can do solo content without getting ripped apart. If you don't like that I could not possibly care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I roll need on gear for my companion so she can tank elites/champions/strongs and I can heal her. So I can do solo content without getting ripped apart. If you don't like that I could not possibly care less. But would you have had access to that gear without 3 other players helping you? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHiddey Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What I am about to say is all opinion. Obviously, since this entire debate is all about opinions, since BW don't take a stance on this. I think people who Need on gear for their companions without asking are egocentric, greedy, inconsiderate pests. My companion is part of meYour companion isn't there when you are doing a fp/op. Your companion is not assisting in any way to overcome the counters presented to you. Any gear on your companion is not gear helping the group. Does that sound like your companion is part of you? Does your companion being decked out in orange gear/epix help your character in any way while in a group? No, it doesn't. You are playing together with other people. People who are participating, who are helping, who will want that gear and won't like the idea of having to compete with Mr- or Mrs NotThereAtPresent. No matter how you twist it, I can't see how anybody would be really happy with that. I mean, come on, do you think you'll find sympathy if you Need on BoE-gear so you can send it to your alt/friend/guildie/Cowboy Curtis? BW didn't define what Need or Greed is for so I can follow my own interpretation You, sir or madam (or somewhere in between, or both), are correct. What happens in cases like this? People make up their own rules! Can we really speak from right or wrong here, then? No, we can't. What we can speak of, whatever, are what is generally accepted and, simirlarly, generally frowned upon. And, from what I see, is that people generally frown on Needing on gear for your companions. And these are the people you are playing with. So, what happens when you spend your time kicking against the shins of the majority of the community? Why, you get shunned, a bad reputation and find yourself with nobody to play with (except your companions). So you either comply to the generally accepted norm, or you find likeminded people to play with, or keep up what you're doing. But with that latter you will need to defend and explain yourself time after time, keep hearing you being branded a ninja (or worse) and other unpleasantries of being a society's pariah. All of this is, as stated earlier, my opinion. And apologies if it's a bit incoherent. TL;DR: Companions are not present in an fp/op, needing for companions is generally agreed to be ninja-ing therefore it should be seen as ninja-ing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedJediKnight Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Sorry to say it but Blizzard took many expansions to finally apply this restriction and the world has been a better place ever since. Well, then quit crying and go BACK TO WOW.... Without saying "that other game had something you don't, so this game sucks", I would simply say that having roll/pass available in addition to need/greed would be nice. TBH, I think everyone should roll on everything not BoP. Straight rolls, on all loot. If it is BoP, then perhaps tokens (like gift fragments) that can be exchanged for class items rather than a class item that 2 out of 4 people can use would be a better answer. Then, you can keep straight rolls, and there aren't any butt hurt players over losing need rolls to other classes. Everyone in the group works to reach the goal, everyone should get something. Lower the overall loot rewards, and make sure everyone in the group always gets a piece. Disclaimer, 1 week into the game on my Sentinel, I had a Guardian roll need on a nice flashpoint piece of BoP med armor (simply because it was better than the heavy he had), then again rolled need on a piece of heavy armor. Oops, I guess? I've rolled need twice on gear for my companion, but have said something about it before rolling. The 2 times I did that, both people were cool about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I've rolled need twice on gear for my companion, but have said something about it before rolling. The 2 times I did that, both people were cool about it. If people would just do that, then most of the people with issues...wouldn't have one. The problem is people think they are ENTITLED to the companion loot and feel no need to ask. I don't mind people gearing their companions...I'd even do dungeon runs JUST TO GEAR COMPANIONS if it was stated upfront. It's just shady to say nothing until loot drops, then need and claim, "well you should have said something". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzoV Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I'm gonna make one last post on this topic, because it's all just getting too heated. First, I'm well aware of the position of those against rolling need on companions. I too played other mmos and am quite familiar with the concept of the ninja. If someone rolls need on the boe, they darn well better equip it now. If I'm in a raid, the main will get precedence over the alt or off-spec. I completely understand this perspective. However, as I have stated numerous times throughout this thread, this is the first mainstream mmo where your companion is an important part of your character. It makes sense to outfit the companion as best you can, because it can quite dramatically improve the overall power of your character, and most of the game is outside of the instance environment. This is a change from the norm, a new paradigm as I've said over and over ad naseum. I believe that this new paradigm is something that is clearly hard for a lot of people here to grasp. Over time, they will likely either defect back to wow or understand and eventually accept the new paradigm. I stand by my position that gearing your companion is NOT a ninja loot. I stand by my position that the entire point of going into a dungeon is to gear your character, and in this game your character includes your companion. It does not matter that the companion is not participating in the group encounter, it is still a crucial part of your overall character. You may not agree and have every right not to agree, and I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with you. Neither of us will back from our positions, so it's going to be best left as agreeing to disagree. If you feel that it is in your best interests to blacklist me from your grouping activities in the future, feel free to do so. You won't have to worry about me and my interpretation of companions, and I won't have to worry about you. I am certain I will find plenty of other people to play with that understand the importance of companions. In the end, we'll both be somewhat happy, despite the fact that our pool of potential group members is diminished. So I'll just let it go at that. Flame on as you wish... I wanted to respond, without slicing up your post, but I'm specifically responding to the section in RED. It does make sense to outfit companions with the best gear, because they do in fact help you level through the game. However, since this is a new paradigm, as you've said, it would be fair of you to tell your group beforehand they you will be rolling need on gear your companion can use. Then, your group can either agree or move along without you. My only suspicion is of those not being forthcoming about their intentions to NEED for companions. Edited January 10, 2012 by HanzoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 But would you have had access to that gear without 3 other players helping you? No. What point are you trying to combine with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PellonSW Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm gonna make one last post on this topic, because it's all just getting too heated. First, I'm well aware of the position of those against rolling need on companions. I too played other mmos and am quite familiar with the concept of the ninja. If someone rolls need on the boe, they darn well better equip it now. If I'm in a raid, the main will get precedence over the alt or off-spec. I completely understand this perspective. However, as I have stated numerous times throughout this thread, this is the first mainstream mmo where your companion is an important part of your character. It makes sense to outfit the companion as best you can, because it can quite dramatically improve the overall power of your character, and most of the game is outside of the instance environment. This is a change from the norm, a new paradigm as I've said over and over ad naseum. I believe that this new paradigm is something that is clearly hard for a lot of people here to grasp. Over time, they will likely either defect back to wow or understand and eventually accept the new paradigm. I stand by my position that gearing your companion is NOT a ninja loot. I stand by my position that the entire point of going into a dungeon is to gear your character, and in this game your character includes your companion. It does not matter that the companion is not participating in the group encounter, it is still a crucial part of your overall character. You may not agree and have every right not to agree, and I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with you. Neither of us will back from our positions, so it's going to be best left as agreeing to disagree. If you feel that it is in your best interests to blacklist me from your grouping activities in the future, feel free to do so. You won't have to worry about me and my interpretation of companions, and I won't have to worry about you. I am certain I will find plenty of other people to play with that understand the importance of companions. In the end, we'll both be somewhat happy, despite the fact that our pool of potential group members is diminished. So I'll just let it go at that. Flame on as you wish... My only issue with that is, the companion does nothing to your character when you are in that Heroic 4 man with a full crew. If the companion was contributing in that instance, then fine. This should all be worked out beforehand anyway, IE, I will roll need for my companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perj Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Only thing I am getting from this thread is that I should roll "Need" for my companion so that I can solo better. Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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