hardicon Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 ok Ive been seeing these threads for a while. apparantly all the slicers lost their monopoly on having all the money in the game so they are going to systematically attack every other crafting skill screaming for nerfs until bioware either tells them to shut up or pulls a blizzard and gives in to them. now I can understand why slicers are upset, it is never fun to have your skills nerfed. But slicing wasnt nerfed because it was working, or it was useful. slicing was nerfed because it had the potential to wreck the economy, not because it was useful. slicing is useful now, you get augments, missions, money plus who else knows but its not gamebreaking anymore. now biochem, yeah it might be more useful than any other crafting profession, every game ever made the endgame consumable stuff is more useful, potions in wow, enchanting in wow, they eventually added other stuff to use for endgame in every other crafting profession but for so long it was alchemy and enchanting. anybody can use the stims, medpacks and stuff from biochem except the ones that never go away, those are biochem only and I do wish they would remove that tag from them so they could be sold. the simple truth is biochem wont make you any money till late game, slicing makes money and other stuff the entire time. biochem will save you money if you take the time to get those reusable stim and medpacks. the normal blue medpacks heal for more than the purple ones though, they have a upfront heal and a heal over time component and are perfectly viable for endgame raiding and pvp. biochem dont need a nerf, they either need to give something to the other crafting skills so they have a niche for endgame. i can see keeping the requirement for the reusable pack as biochem only because that is a perk for the biochemist, anyone can use the green packs and stims and the blue ones, the artifact level are just a perk, and its not like they gain any more benefits from being artifact quality other than being reusable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redial Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 i dropped 400 slicing on 2 characters just recently. That says it was probably over nerfed. but i could care less. I just pick the professions that seem like they will be most profitable. No longer slicing? no care, on to the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 i dropped 400 slicing on 2 characters just recently. That says it was probably over nerfed. but i could care less. I just pick the professions that seem like they will be most profitable. No longer slicing? no care, on to the next. Can't see why you dropped it. I kept it on my main through the nerf and while I no longer have a credit making machine that was indeed better than it should be and needed a nerf. I still make so much money I picked it up in an alt too. It's time the slicers of old face the fact it was to good. It's well past time to admit that and be honest about it. Slicing is still good and you can make plenty of credits off it. Biochem is currently great beyond anything all other professions give. Meaing there is no reason to be anything else other than if you just like some other profession. If I had t put them in any order of usefulness and the best being at the top and near useless at the bottom, it would be: Biochem | | | | Cybertech | | |Slicing | | | | | | | | | | All other crew skills vary slightly here at the bottom. Bioware will have to do something or damn near everyone will be Biochem as word gets spread around how crappy nearly all other professions are. When the playing public moves in droves to one or two particular professions - Something is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardicon Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 well if everyone goes biochem then nobody will be able to get certain stuff, like augments unless those are sold somewhere. mods while leveling without having to spend all your commendations on mods instead of gear for you or your companions. i agree though that things need to be added for other crafting professions for endgame stuff. this plagued wow for years, i was a blacksmith and blacksmithing was useless for endgame till socketed items came out, then blacksmith got useful for end game stuff. taking away biochems perks is not the way to go abotu this though. biochem is pretty well balanced out, the others maybe not so much. i think all this talk of switching to biochem is just a kneejerk reaction by the playerbase though and most of it is talk, not actually happening just trying to get bioware to cave in and nerf biochem and most of it done by slicers that arent multibillionares now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litefire Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) do a spredsheet with your slicer, slice for 8 hours, DO NOT DO ANY QUESTING AT ALL. report how much you make, oh and if the companion your slicing with has bonuses to slicing. You will discover that it's not making as much as you think it's making. 10-15k credits total for around 8 hours of 5 companions going out, is my going return. My underworld trader alt makes 60-65k off the same 8 hours, just by using /3 to sell the metals. My scavanging lvl 2 metals chanlon can make more them my slicing can in the same time period since chanolon is used to make lvl 2 ship parts. The entire your printing money out of air comments are amusing since i am printing UT metals and scavanging metals out air with the same number of mouse clicks, and i add 2 more clicks to use the gtn or 5 min in /3 . Slicing needed a 20-30% nerf no the 71% nerf it took. *augments are worthless, they sell for less then the mission cost(and take 2x longer then lockboxes to get) because they only go in critical crafted gear. Give slicers a mission to get a AUGMENT adder device and then maybe augments will be worth it. Edited January 10, 2012 by Litefire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valnarr Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can't see why you dropped it. I kept it on my main through the nerf and while I no longer have a credit making machine that was indeed better than it should be and needed a nerf. I still make so much money I picked it up in an alt too. It's time the slicers of old face the fact it was to good. It's well past time to admit that and be honest about it. Slicing is still good and you can make plenty of credits off it. Biochem is currently great beyond anything all other professions give. Meaing there is no reason to be anything else other than if you just like some other profession. If I had t put them in any order of usefulness and the best being at the top and near useless at the bottom, it would be: Biochem | | | | Cybertech | | |Slicing | | | | | | | | | | All other crew skills vary slightly here at the bottom. Bioware will have to do something or damn near everyone will be Biochem as word gets spread around how crappy nearly all other professions are. When the playing public moves in droves to one or two particular professions - Something is broken. Except you need bioanalysis for Biochem and if you want to be independent of the market you need diplomacy too. So if you are going biochem than dropping slicing for diplomacy is probably a good way to get money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 do a spredsheet with your slicer, slice for 8 hours, DO NOT DO ANY QUESTING AT ALL. report how much you make, oh and if the companion your slicing with has bonuses to slicing. You will discover that it's not making as much as you think it's making. 10-15k credits total for around 8 hours of 5 companions going out, is my going return. My underworld trader alt makes 60-65k off the same 8 hours, just by using /3 to sell the metals. My scavanging lvl 2 metals chanlon can make more them my slicing can in the same time period since chanolon is used to make lvl 2 ship parts. The entire your printing money out of air comments are amusing since i am printing UT metals and scavanging metals out air with the same number of mouse clicks, and i add 2 more clicks to use the gtn or 5 min in /3 . Slicing needed a 20-30% nerf no the 71% nerf it took. *augments are worthless, they sell for less then the mission cost(and take 2x longer then lockboxes to get) because they only go in critical crafted gear. Give slicers a mission to get a AUGMENT adder device and then maybe augments will be worth it. I make 2-3 times more than you are off slicing and thats doing nothing for roughly the same amount of time. No selling, no running around. It's a pure simple cash machine. Sure it's not as good as it was but for no effort. It's more than fine. God forbid slicing get a buff. I can only hope not. The only thing amusing is trying to compare your metal mats sells to the do nothing of slicing, to make cash. As far as selling mats - That depends on your time and market for the items. 2 entirely different methods of making money. You are actively working the game economy vs doing nothing and getting straight credits. The 2 at not equal even though they eventually generate the same currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litefire Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 well if everyone goes biochem then nobody will be able to get certain stuff, like augments unless those are sold somewhere. mods while leveling without having to spend all your commendations on mods instead of gear for you or your companions. i agree though that things need to be added for other crafting professions for endgame stuff. this plagued wow for years, i was a blacksmith and blacksmithing was useless for endgame till socketed items came out, then blacksmith got useful for end game stuff. taking away biochems perks is not the way to go abotu this though. biochem is pretty well balanced out, the others maybe not so much. i think all this talk of switching to biochem is just a kneejerk reaction by the playerbase though and most of it is talk, not actually happening just trying to get bioware to cave in and nerf biochem and most of it done by slicers that arent multibillionares now. This is a total red herring arguement, the problem is biochem is the only useful tradeskill for raiders and pvper's. period end of story. As a juggernaut if I had Biochem with the reusable medpacks I would have a 6-8k heal with a 2k hot following, around 10 extra fort/str that lasted through death and wasn't used up after i clicked it. The mass influx to biochem is well because biochem is that good for you as a raider or pvper. Nothing else even approaches it. As to people are calling for nerfs because they believe bioware reacts to nerf herding due to the large number of threads in the first week calling for slicings nerf and a week later nerfbat hit. Are the same people who are calling for biochem nerfs the same ones who are switching to it on every alt they have, you bet. But as a non biochem, i'm glad lots of people are going biochem. It's making the blue stem i need much cheeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 do a spredsheet with your slicer, slice for 8 hours, DO NOT DO ANY QUESTING AT ALL. report how much you make, oh and if the companion your slicing with has bonuses to slicing. You will discover that it's not making as much as you think it's making. 10-15k credits total for around 8 hours of 5 companions going out, is my going return. Then you are picking the wrong missions. It is very easy to average 900-1200 credits an hour per companion. So sending 5 out for 8 hours you should earn on the low end 900*5*8 = 36,000 creds not including any other schematics or missions you get. On my server 300/340 UT, TH and Arch missions are selling for 15k-25k each. 8 hours straight of slicing will yield at least a couple of those plus lesser missions you can sell as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can't see why you dropped it. I kept it on my main through the nerf and while I no longer have a credit making machine that was indeed better than it should be and needed a nerf. I still make so much money I picked it up in an alt too. It's time the slicers of old face the fact it was to good. It's well past time to admit that and be honest about it. Slicing is still good and you can make plenty of credits off it. Biochem is currently great beyond anything all other professions give. Meaing there is no reason to be anything else other than if you just like some other profession. If I had t put them in any order of usefulness and the best being at the top and near useless at the bottom, it would be: Biochem | | | | Cybertech | | |Slicing | | | | | | | | | | All other crew skills vary slightly here at the bottom. Bioware will have to do something or damn near everyone will be Biochem as word gets spread around how crappy nearly all other professions are. When the playing public moves in droves to one or two particular professions - Something is broken. Just buy blue stims from biochemists. It's not OP at all it doesn't give exclusive abilities just stops things available to EVERYONE costing them money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theangryllama Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Slicing wasn't overnerfed but it is severely suffering from the terrible state armor crafting skills are in. The primary form of income for slicers should be augments and mission discoveries IMO however with so few crafters out there purely because why bother when you can just orange your way through the game there is no market for these items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardicon Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 simply wrong about the medpack issue. that medpack you are talking about anyone can use. the blue medpacks are what heals and has a heal over time affect attached to it. anyone can use them. the purple medpacks just have a upfront heal, the only benefit is they are reusable. the blue medkits heal for more and anyone can use them, just have to buy them from a biochemist. I never once called for a slicing nerf, didnt have slicing, have never had it, but i heard from many in my guild that had slicing and they were ranting and raving about how much money they were making off slicing to the poitn where quite frankly i wasnt surprised it took a hit. they all still have slicing though and many of them have stated the nerf wasnt all that bad, they are still making tons of credits off slicing plus having mission discoveries, augments and whatever else it offers. biochem is not required for end game pvp or pve, no more than alchemy was required in wow. for what medpaks and stims, you can buy them off vendors or have a biochemist make them for you. it just requires upkeep which if you have a money making skill like slicing that upkeep is nothing. i have sunk about 400k credits into biochem, ive made none, not one single credit off biochem so far. sure ive got reusable things but i have not actually sold one single item from biochem yet, mainly because the reusables cant be used and the blues are just too expensive for me to make i know i wont get my moneys worth selling them. i didnt get it to make money though, i got it to supply my guild with items for raiding. biochem is basically having no effect on the ingame economy, the only items you can sell really are the implants at level 50. i know a guy in my guild that is selling those but for the mat requirements it is kind of low profit. 50k sell for 35 k mat cost for the tier 6 crafting mats. biochemist are not getting unbelievably rich off biochem, believe what you want but there were people that took slicing early and worked it up that was able to buy everything their character ever needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Just buy blue stims from biochemists. It's not OP at all it doesn't give exclusive abilities just stops things available to EVERYONE costing them money. Oh don't get me wrong. I don't think in any way Biochem is OP. It's working great with some nice benefits. It's just leaps and bound ahead of most crew skills in usefulness. I can only hope as far as the other crafting skills goes BW plans to do something with them. At least make them have some benefit to pickig them that is a a little longer lasting than just through a few levels while leveling and easily forgotten at endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xatoo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm still very new and have several characters going, but the one with Biochem so far is seeming more advantageous. I can send my ship droid out to get stuff while my other is with me doing other things and I can get lots of materials out in the worlds. I never have to buy a medpack. I haven't done slicing on any of my characters yet but I may switch one of them just to see what I can do with it. Either way it's all fun so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagu Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Then you are picking the wrong missions. It is very easy to average 900-1200 credits an hour per companion. So sending 5 out for 8 hours you should earn on the low end 900*5*8 = 36,000 creds not including any other schematics or missions you get. On my server 300/340 UT, TH and Arch missions are selling for 15k-25k each. 8 hours straight of slicing will yield at least a couple of those plus lesser missions you can sell as well. Out of curiousity, which missions are you taking for those profits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Oh don't get me wrong. I don't think in any way Biochem is OP. It's working great with some nice benefits. It's just leaps and bound ahead of most crew skills in usefulness. I can only hope as far as the other crafting skills goes BW plans to do something with them. At least make them have some benefit to pickig them that is a a little longer lasting than just through a few levels while leveling and easily forgotten at endgame. I apologise. I've just seen so many Nerf biochem threads I've lost a bit of faith in humanity. I think every other craft should be buffed and made a thread for suggestions... But I've had only 1 reply in the time I've seen another 2 Nerf threads appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHats Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Out of curiousity, which missions are you taking for those profits? He isnt. I have been testing slicing non stop with 3 companiosn on my alt since the nerf. I didnt make much at all. Some days I even come out with less than I started. Im maxed out, picking level 41-48 rich yields and 49-50 abundants. I have no clue why there are no bountieful or rich 49-50 missions. Its mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thourton Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) He isnt. I have been testing slicing non stop with 3 companiosn on my alt since the nerf. I didnt make much at all. Some days I even come out with less than I started. Im maxed out, picking level 41-48 rich yields and 49-50 abundants. I have no clue why there are no bountieful or rich 49-50 missions. Its mind boggling. He may be running low level missions (like tier 1 or 2). Someone recently recorded all their Slicing missions on a Google doc and found that running the tier 1 and 2 missions--because of the quick times and high crit chances--makes more profit per minute than higher tier missions. I've got a level 11 GTN alt parked in Carrick Station that's already making 100+ credits profit, and he's only at 50 Slicing with one companion. So with five companions running missions, I could easily bring in 5-10k per hour--or 40-80k per eight hours, to match Drewser's claims. Slicing is still highly profitable. --EDIT-- Here's the Google doc that shows profits for Slicing missions--most notably, "For Better or Worse," a tier 2 mission. Credit to pdxmarcos and his thread. Edited January 10, 2012 by Thourton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Out of curiousity, which missions are you taking for those profits? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ArCSGLnwZLADdGxYdlhEejBFclBjR3l1N29OaW1kYUE&output=html I only run missions with over 15 in the avg cred per minute column. I also always go from high to low as well meaning I check 41-48 first. I never have to run below level 3. I also never run standard 49-50 as their returns stink. The only one worth running in that range is the one you get from the 340 slicing mission discovery. Edited January 10, 2012 by Drewser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 He isnt. I have been testing slicing non stop with 3 companiosn on my alt since the nerf. I didnt make much at all. Some days I even come out with less than I started. Im maxed out, picking level 41-48 rich yields and 49-50 abundants. I have no clue why there are no bountieful or rich 49-50 missions. Its mind boggling. That is why you are doing poorly. 49-50 missions have some of the lowest ROI's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 That is why you are doing poorly. 49-50 missions have some of the lowest ROI's. I'm starting to think people haven't really put any effort into understanding slicing and how you can still make great credits and just like to jump on the bandwagon of "please un-nerf slicing". Unlike before the nerf it took no effort what so ever to make credits. Now at least you have to understand it a little more and what give good returns and what does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm starting to think people haven't really put any effort into understanding slicing and how you can still make great credits and just like to jump on the bandwagon of "please un-nerf slicing". Unlike before the nerf it took no effort what so ever to make credits. Now at least you have to understand it a little more and what give good returns and what does not. Yup. Most people are lazy and like to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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