Alveia Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 So I really like the idea / style of Scoundrel DPS, but I'm finding no real benefit to playing one seriously in a PvE environment. As a stealth melee DPS class, it falls short of Shadow's utility (knockback, short CD sprint) and Gunslinger brings all the baseline Smuggler utility just the same if not better (30yd range on Flash Grenade). Healer Scoundrels are great, but I just don't see any reason to legitimately play a DPS Scoundrel without feeling like you're gimping yourself for not picking something better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtops Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) It sounds like you've missed all the threads shouting how Scoundrel is op.... Edited January 10, 2012 by xtops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugalojan Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 It sounds like you've missed all the threads shouting how Scoudrel is op.... clearly you dont understand that hes talking about pve and not pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtops Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 PVE = Easier PVP. He mentioned very little PVE related, so I assumed he made a typo. I do just fine as a Scoundrel in PVE, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridge Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I would say just play what is fun for you and matches the concept of the character you want to play. You will make it to end game in PVE regardless, may as well enjoy yourself on the way. Edited January 10, 2012 by gridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakien Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You don't need to for PvE. I run with Sawbones and I am doing just fine in PvE. PvP however needs a DPS build. Scoundrel is a great all around utility character and you can specialize for Melee, Range or Healing. It's really a unique and interesting character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbeatpaladin Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I raid as a scrapper. The benefit is I do retarded damage compared to almost every other class in the game and I don't die. The playstyle is enjoyable. I can heal myself or drop adds in two hits. The class is flexible; I am unsure as to why you think that translates to bad damage. If you do not have guard, you WILL pull agro and die. A better question may be, why take another melee dps class that isn't a scoundrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornBreadtm Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I raid as a scrapper. The benefit is I do retarded damage compared to almost every other class in the game and I don't die. The playstyle is enjoyable. I can heal myself or drop adds in two hits. The class is flexible; I am unsure as to why you think that translates to bad damage. If you do not have guard, you WILL pull agro and die. A better question may be, why take another melee dps class that isn't a scoundrel? This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calyptic Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Dont understand why people think scrapper wont be good in pve. The Damage is easily sustainable and as someone else put it you can one shot normal mobs. youmight have dps drop offs at times if you over spend(which is easy to do) butits very high damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascero Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I raid as a scrapper. The benefit is I do retarded damage compared to almost every other class in the game and I don't die. The playstyle is enjoyable. I can heal myself or drop adds in two hits. The class is flexible; I am unsure as to why you think that translates to bad damage. If you do not have guard, you WILL pull agro and die. A better question may be, why take another melee dps class that isn't a scoundrel? We know this because of those awesome combat logs you have. Ah, wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karast Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Scoundrels have solid pve dps out put, they have access to the DF dot spec which is actually a lot nice in pve then pvp. From a group perspective they have a lot of burst, nice CC ((tranq dart). They can offheal at times. 1-2 quick heals to top themselves or a group mate a times. They have a combat rez, and a group stealth buff to skip trash mobs. The only draw backs are that for the most part as dps they are melee. Which can be tricky for some fights, and they do not as awesome of AoE damage as other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Argos Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 We know this because of those awesome combat logs you have. Ah, wait... You don't need a combat log to see how much damage you do, relative damage can be easily assessed by having 2 DPS attack identical enemies alone, weaker enemies to test out burst, stronger to check sustained. I have noticed my Operative (read: =Scoundrel) do damage on par with the Assassins and Marauders I play with Empire-side, in both fields. Not saying we're top-tier players, but there are plenty of ways to assess the Scoundrel as a competent DPS (or otherwise) without straight numerical data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbeatpaladin Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 We know this because of those awesome combat logs you have. Ah, wait... Yeah, silly me. I need something to tell me I'm doing good damage or I'm not doing good damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascero Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Yeah, silly me. I need something to tell me I'm doing good damage or I'm not doing good damage. Unless you've sat down and crunched numbers, or done a boat load of testing (which is basically what a combat logger does) with the people you run with, your evidence is anecdotal. But I guess you can just always ignore math and talk yourself into doing good DPS. Edited January 10, 2012 by Lascero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbeatpaladin Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Unless you've sat down and crunched numbers, or done a boat load of testing (which is basically what a combat logger does) with the people you run with, your evidence is anecdotal. But I guess you can just always ignore math and talk yourself into doing good DPS. Guess I should get all passive aggressive about it next, too, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alveia Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 To be fair there is no way to know how good your damage is right now. As someone said, it is all anecdotal. I remember way back in the day, in Final Fantasy XI, everyone thought Dark Knights were the most beastly DPS because of the huge crits they put out. Then along came parsers which revealed they were in fact the worst DPS by far. Without mathematical evidence you won't have a good idea of what works and what doesn't, which is why we really need a combat log sometime soon, hopefully. Working under the assumption that BW's intent is to balance the DPS specs fairly well, I'm only looking at what utility I can bring the group, and in this case I feel that as a DPS, Scoundrel just doesn't bring anything that can't be brought by someone else, or done better. As a pure damage dealer I'm sure it does great, but I like having utility, it's always been important to me in whatever I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infanta Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Id be really annoyed if scrappers out DPS me, a gunslinger. My AC is designed to be pure DPS, you're supposed to be a hybrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alveia Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Id be really annoyed if scrappers out DPS me, a gunslinger. My AC is designed to be pure DPS, you're supposed to be a hybrid Archaic thinking is archaic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetallicaRulez Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Id be really annoyed if scrappers out DPS me, a gunslinger. My AC is designed to be pure DPS, you're supposed to be a hybrid 2004 called, wants it's class design back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powercow Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Scrappers have some neat tricks -- Flyby is one of the best AoEs in the game, threat is never an issue thanks to vanish, and the ability to heal during non-DPS phases (Soa's floor drop/shield, guardian droid's missile phase, etc.), and Defense Screen is very nice to have as a DPS. In terms of overall DPS, it's high, but without any way to accurately crunch numbers (no combat logs = /sad) it's unknown exactly how you stack up. The only real problem is your DPS is directional melee DPS, which is a horrific disadvantage in some fights. Not impossible, but your DPS will suffer from those (many) times when you can't get right behind a boss to use Backblast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridfire Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) PVE != PVP at all. "Easier PVP" my arse. PVE is about perfecting rotations and squeezing the maximum numbers out of your build and gear with exact and perfect responses to a PVE encounter. PVP is about - if you're an average player - running about mashing all your buttons and hoping that you kill the other guy before he kills you. If you're a good player it's about reacting to the other player and a bit of burst damage when you manage to disable them for a few seconds. A PVP fight lasts seconds unless your opponent happens to be a healer or tank running a very defensive tactic. A PVE boss fight lasts minutes and can be like choreography, but often requires absolute exact timings over and over for the full length of the fight or the entire attempt fails. I play a Scoundrel, currently Scrapper spec, and I agree with the OP that Scoundrels are not ideal PVE characters next to most of the other DPS classes. My primary objection is the lack of any skill to close range so you're often walking towards your target while the Jedis are leaping or sprinting and the Troopers+Gunslingers are letting their ammo do the running. Edited January 11, 2012 by Gridfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borrob Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Unless you've sat down and crunched numbers, or done a boat load of testing (which is basically what a combat logger does) with the people you run with, your evidence is anecdotal. But I guess you can just always ignore math and talk yourself into doing good DPS. Guess I should get all passive aggressive about it next, too, huh? LOL, we don't need a calculator to tell us he's exactly the kind of player that's most of what's wrong with mmos today Edited March 4, 2012 by Borrob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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