Back in my day...

[Razyr]

Back in my day...

 

We didn't have forums to rant on. We talked smack all day long and if I didn't like what you said, I'd camp you with a rail gun until you logged off the server.

 

Come to think of it, I did that regardless of if I liked you or not.

[Darkhosis]

MMOs are easy mode now and that goes without question.

 

There's lots of people starved for a challenge like the good old days. If an MMO were released true to the original UO/EQ roots with harsh penalties. It'd be a hit.

 

Just boils down to the old philosophy. If you work for something you'll appreciate it more than if it were just gave to you.

 

Also there is ZERO fear element... The same reason a horror movie is popular is the reason these games were popular. The FEAR you felt trying to retrieve your corpse and the possibility of losing hours/days work was exciting.

[Stavrakios]

Back in my day...

 

We didn't have a self-rez device that made world pvp totally pointless.

[KennethHoover]

Back in my day I remember when the post office used to deliver mail twice a day and a stamp cost 6 cents. You could literally mail a letter in the morning and it would be delivered across town by the afternoon.

 

Back I my day I remember when there actually used to be cartoons on Saturday mornings and a Charms Pop cost 10 cents and was HUGE. Also, we had banana seats on our bicycles and if we were lucky we had four channels to watch on our black and white TV. I also remember when we used to get the Sears Christmas Catalog in the mail and immediately pour over the toy section.

 

Ah, nostalgia. It's always so warm and cozy in our memory.

[Xenich]

Back in my day...

 

 

- We didnt have raid groups. We rangled 100+ people and made groups of 6 to try and kill one world boss. None of this 8-man easy mode content. You had to actually have a sizeable group to get things done.

 

And the type of people playing back then were actually gamers, while the people today are simply passerby players looking for some quick entertainment who view any effort, conditions, consequences, or restrictions as getting in the way of them being entertained. In short, you have a different player base and like it or not, they are the majority and they unfortunately are the ones that drive the design of them.

 

- Raid buffs took 30 minutes and you liked it. There was no massive raid group. Everyone just made their small groups and took orders.

 

We liked it because we only had 15 min and 10 min buffs before. We liked it when they increased it above 30 because we felt wasting time just to put buffs on was a pointless task that got in the way of the strategy of content. Honestly, there are many things to appreciate about the early game systems, but this isn't one.

 

A better point would be how casters had limited slots to memorize spells to which they had to think about the fights and their spells very thoroughly so they could be prepared for a given situation, not how long a buff lasted.

 

- We didnt have these instances...if you wanted to kill something you had to camp its spawn and RACE against everyone else to get it. If you didnt get it you had to wait another 7 days just to get a chance to take it down.

 

Instances allowed for a more dynamic content (having mobs have full blown mechanics and time based encounters/interactive aspects). The reason you had to mob camp in the world was because the only means at the time to avoid people killing the rare mob constantly or getting the drop every time (removing risk/reward/rarity) was to have place holders and then random the chance of the drops on top of it. This was a design limitation (camping), not a "feature".

 

Instances allow players to progress through a dungeon and obtain more of a realistic feel to the adventure (a small party searching and overcoming the danger of a given dungeon) and not a city of people calling out in the dungeon, training other players, getting in spawn arguments, and sitting idle doing nothing but killing PHs for hours hoping some mysterious rare would pop.

 

The only desire someone would have for contested content is the competition and the aspect of constantly running into other people while playing, which again doesn't work well with the type of players today. If you thought the fights, petty arguments and griefing were a problem at times in the older systems, insert today's socially immature gamer into the mix of such and watch it become a nightmare.

 

Raiding was ridiculous as this is where the term "hardcore" and "casual" truly had their meaning. We didn't define someone as hardcore strictly by their play time, many casual players were on 3-4 hours a night and a healthy chunk during the weekend (people who worked 60 hours a week like myself). The problem was that the "hardcore" player was the one who logged in any time during the day (to catch contested content), and guilds would require peoples play times to be that of someone who didn't work. That is, the game was their priority, they were hardcore players.

 

Add in also the problem with time zone players and you had issues with certain guilds taking all of the content, doing underhanded things to players to keep them from progressing. You don't remember the constant complaints about the European players taking all of the raid content before the western players could even get on? Sorry, but instances took away the issue of fighting other people over stupid stuff and placed the focus on the actual raid content allowing "normal" people to actually attempt difficult large number content.

 

I don't know about you, but I did not appreciate staying up to the early morning hours on a week night (going to work a few hours after the raid) trying to organize 70+ people to do a raid that required all of them to be on their toes and diligently executing their tasks for several hours non-stop on a single fight. I am not saying it wasn't fun in my youth, but the bulk of the problems with it was trying to get people to pay attention and follow orders and as I said, the "players" of today are not capable of such effort. I stopped leading raids after a bit of WoW. Different players today and they are in no way shape or form... gamers.

 

The problem is not instancing, it is what they are doing with it. Instances are no longer long crawls of difficult content that take effort and dedication (using strategy, little room for error, and requiring thought on skill use and tactics) from the team of players to which the reward is simply being able to get through the entire content or to successfully master each fight within it. Dungeons are more instant runs with quick results and fast rewards that result in nothing more than mind numbing grinds with the only purpose to obtain some shiny item that has no meaning.

 

Look at LoTRO, their initial dungeons were long, well thought out, tactical and extremely difficult. They were broken into steps of progression disallowing entry to move on or pass the early content until people won the encounters in progression and obtained the key/item which would allow them to skip on to the other parts the next time they played. Again, as I said, this was changed, like in all games, people don't want to play a game, they want to be entertained and their idea of entertainment is simply being present and handed something for their attendance. What you are fondly remembering is not the mechanics exactly, but the effort, risk, and reward of content. Something that no longer exists in games due to the current majority player base.

 

 

 

- If you had a weapon that had a "The" in it, it was legitmately epic. There was MAYBE two or three on the server and it was drooled over.

 

- Purple loot was actually epic. None of these quest turn ins, full epic gear by soloing content bull*****. Being decked head to toe in purple actually meant something.

 

 

- Orange loot was MAYBE one or two per server.

 

 

Again, player base problem. People don't like others to have something they do not. They don't like having to put in effort to obtain it. The result is a design methodology that serves to make everyone happy, regardless of the legitimacy of their issue. That is, games are designed not from a game designers perspective, but from a business model perspective. It is unfortunate, but as I said, games are made for gamers, they are made for people to be entertained.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- You couldn't solo your way 1-50. You HAD to group because mobs were too mean to kill by yourself. It built a genuine connection across the server and people really got to know eachother.

 

 

You could, but only if you were a specific class. In EQ, a wizard, necro, SK, druid and bard had the abilitiy to solo to max and they obtained such ability when they achieved the level to have the right combination of spells. Other classes were completely group dependent. Monks pre-kunark could only solo to up around 36 (using ID kiting which was very slow and random), everything had to be grouped after such. Other classes like warriors were group dependent from the beginning.

 

I understand your complaint, that content should be more difficult, but the problem is not whether it can be solo'd or not (someone will always be able to achieve such through clever use of skills and mechanics), but rather the content takes effort and thought to overcome. Fights back then were much longer. There was no such thing as killing trash with a few blows. Most trash mobs were as difficult as the boss mobs in games today. Boss fights for groups were long, difficult and slow in their execution. The point is, fights were designed to be endurance and luck, or fast kill executions were not an option. People had to balance the use of their skills, but as I have said, this is something that appeals to gamers, not those simply looking for entertainment.

 

 

 

- Getting access to an endgame zone took WORK. Months and months of work to even get INSIDE.

 

Tiered access back then was silly in how they applied it. If you are speaking of PoP it was a guild expansion, for guilds, designed for them to grind with mass numbers to achieve things. It killed smaller guilds (small back then was 30-40 players). There is nothing wrong with tiered access, but they applied it in for the form of excessive grind camps and this took away from the skill/tactic aspect of play and left it to those with no jobs and the RNG. Not an ideal design. Like I said, the problem is they have dumbed down content at all levels leaving the only avenue to succeed as being "do this easy quest over a million times".

 

 

 

 

 

 

THATS THE WAY IT WAS AND WE LOVED IT

 

 

(Feel free to add your own)

 

That is not how I remember loving it.

 

I like the difficult content, the length of group fights allowing for time to communicate strategy change ups and approaches during a fight. CC'ing was a requirement giving more requirement and flexibility to a given encounter. I liked the risk/reward being harsh, though I thought the reward back then was often short changed too often for the effort.

 

I liked everywhere you went being dangerous and the only aspect of you being able to "solo" things being if you were clever and careful about your approach and use of skills. I liked how you couldn't simply run away from mobs for a short sprint and have them stop chasing, how the idea of a mob far above you happening upon you leaving no area "safe" for your level.

 

I liked how you had to pay attention to pathers, and how rooting, mezing, stunning, etc... were a requirement to even be successful against a trash mob. I liked how the items won, were not big flashy with huge numbers, and the gear was slow and meaningful in its acquisition.

 

I liked how group dungeons were not something that could be done by people who didn't learn their class. I liked how leveling itself took a long time with the content being the focus, not how fast you got to then end level. I liked how I could play the game "casually" (2-3 hours a night) and it would take me months to get anywhere near max level. I liked how death was something people wanted to avoid, not a tactic in traveling or indiscriminately testing things.

 

Games lack risk, they lack appropriate rewards for risk and they lack consequence.

 

This will not change though. As I said, games are designed from a business model, not a game design model and what drives that model is the majority of player behavior and expectation. You won't get what you desire by people demanding to be entertained. They do not know what they even want, they only know they want to have fun and that is not a design methodology as it is too broad, too vague.

[Lybra]

You young'uns.

 

Back in MY DAY...

 

-We had to use pencils, erasers, and graph paper to play RPGs.

 

-When we triggered a trap, it was "save or die." And death was permanent.

 

-We had 200-page volumes of rules printed in 8 point font that we had to basically commit to memory (or else take hours looking things up) before we could play the game.

 

-You think getting an online raid together is hard? Try getting 6 or 7 people physically together in the same room on the same night every week, when none of them are old enough to drive themselves (so they have to get mom or dad or big brother to drive 'em). Yeah good luck with that.

 

-We had to roll for our stats with 6-sided dice, and by the original rules, we had to keep whatever we rolled. You want a fighter but roll a 7 Strength on 3D6? Good luck with that -2 to hit and damage, buddy.

 

-We had to make pretty much all of our own content. You think it's hard going into a dungeon fighting stuff? Try MAKING UP your own dungeon, again using only books, pencils, and paper.

 

-Our characters' appearance consisted of either a written description or, if we wanted it visual, we had to HAND DRAW it. And you people whine about how gear "looks" on you in game.

 

-We couldn't look up anything on the internet, because their WAS no internet (well, it existed, but hardly anyone had a way to connect to it and most of us didn't know about it).

 

-Even if we could have looked stuff up, it wouldn't have helped, because our DM could make up stuff off the top of his head, if he wanted.

 

-You think dealing with dev teams that have superiors, chains of command, etc, can be difficult? Try having a vindictive DM who is the sole arbiter of EVERYTHING, and who literally holds the lives and deaths of your characters in his hands. And he thinks killing your character off for no reason is fun.

 

-We had to walk 30, 40 minutes to each other's houses (uphill, both ways, in 5 feet of snow) to get together to play. When's the last time you had to trudge through a snowstorm to play an MMO?

 

-Our gaming consisted of telling actual stories, that we made up, together, off the top of our heads. You think clicking "OK" or choosing some multiple choice convo options is how you "do a quest?" Try having a DM who awards xp based on how long, interesting, and creative your RP statements are.

 

All you "back in my day" MMO people are wusses. You'd never have survived it in MY day.

 

Wimps.

 

This for President.

 

Oh and:

 

- The game engine was so massive and full of potential that if someone had to write a guide about leveling your character class there, he'd need *terrabytes* of storage for his .pdf files.

[Leithian]

Sadly they did make a game along the lines of Everquest.. Vanguard... It never took off.

Fast food society killed off challenging games because the mass populous buying games have been spoon fed with what they want, when they want it all their lives.

 

The kids of the 90s onward have had life real easy in terms of getting everything they want. Until the generation of kids being born today where the economy sucks and you have to work hard to get what you want again, mmos will continue along the path of heres your free epics.

 

Ultima and Everquest were very innovative for their time. I even met my wife playing Everquest! Im still waiting for Sony to pay up on that one. No where on the box did it say this game my result in marriage!

 

Sadly the long grind out to reach max level is gone, and oh how I miss real AA points to diversify your class instead of the cookie cutter trees. I just don't see that happening again for some time.

 

When EQ2 launched I wish they had just made EQ1 with updated graphics alas this was not the case. I ended up in wow like most because it was where the majority of people ended up. Crowd control was gone, class diversity was gone, there really has been very rare need for it except maybe Sunwell.

 

I remember being in Velks lab just waiting for a group opening for top , middle or bottom. When I got one I'd play for hours killing the same spawns of mobs over and over lol. I got my epic swords for my ranger. I ended up playing an ogre shadow knight. i had a shaman and Id do the mass buff in PoP.

 

LdoN were far better than any instances that have come in any game after....

 

Unfortunately what drives an mmo is community, and the majority of the community is not playing that kind of game. That said if they released Everquest with updated graphics and not much else changed than that i would certainly go back.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Leithian

[talligan]

Way back in my day late 90's\DragonMUD\Medievia edition

Back in my day I had to hunt through the room descriptions to find clues that could unlock the puzzle behind each zone.

 

I had to read combat text flying up my log because that was the only way I knew what to do and I had to hurriedly type "cast heal major [insert long player name]"

 

Back in my day, large disasters would strike certain towns and cut them off of normal trade routes. Lots of money could be made by buying goods on one side of the World and caravaning them to that town - though I'd always need an escort because packs of mobs would hunt me down.

 

A random catacomb dungeon could, and would, appear randomly at various places around the World. You stayed away from these places unless you were super high level or with a very large group.

 

Group formation mattered. Put the squishy healer in the center of your group.

 

Back in my day 2003-2008 edition\FFXI\LOTRO\WoW edition

I had to kill worms, rarabs, crabs and pugs for approximately 30 days of play time before I could do anything cool.

 

I had to kill repeatedly kill the same mob over and over again for different 'quests'

 

All buying and selling was done on an auction house.

 

There were pretty graphics.

Edited February 8, 2012 by talligan

[ceciltaru]

Your DM let you re-roll???

 

lol, thats why i prefixed with the easy mode part.

 

had a really cool dm in junior high for some Forgotten Realms adventures. He let us re-roll once if the attributes didn't fit the character we wanted. Then he proceeded to put our characters through some grueling encounters in Waterdeep and Undermountain. Fun times!

[sac-]

Back in my day I didn't have to buy some ******** skill to get a ride, I could just buy a horse.

 

There were no factions whatsoever. If you annoyed me I'd just kill you. Simple as that.

 

Classes? Non existent.

 

You like killing monsters? Good luck with that. If some 'red' could find you, you'd be dead.

 

Even rats could kill you. Seriously.

 

Exploring was really freaking dangerous.

 

Dragons were hard as **** to kill.

 

Best items you could find were crafted.

 

If you died, you'd literally DIE and lose all your items. You're now a ghost. Want your body and 'purples' back? Run and TRY to get it. But first you had to ress. How do you do that? No 'release to nearest graveyard'. Maybe your friend could ress you. MAYBE. Probably not.

[Ilsildor]

Im not truly nostalgic over any old mmo.

 

UO had a lot of great moments. So did WoW. Was one necessarily better than the other? No i think they were comepletely different. Do i want a game exactly like either of them? Hell no.

 

So what do i want? More.

 

I want the impossible, really. A mix of skyrim(1stperson/3D combat)/ uo(ondeathdropeverything/skillsystem)/ minecraft(playermodifyingworld)/ sims(builder)/ eve(playerpolitics/economy/empires)/ horizons(what it wanted to be, orig. races/play as a dragon with eve-like dedication for powerful advancement)

+ decent physics, weather. Player built cities, player owned governments and territory. Npc's hired to do day-day duties in towns. Destructible environments/homes. Vast unexplored land, randomly generated. Natural disasters. And to put the RP back into RPG. Etc....

Edited February 8, 2012 by Ilsildor

[CidTrip]

A lot of the comments I'm seeing remind me of Asherons Call (not #2, the original). Well before most of you played any MMORPGs I'm guessing.

 

- PVP was ALL SKILL because magic spells and arrows could all be dodged if you moved your character at the right time. There were no spells/arrows that magically turned in mid-air. You know, the complete opposite of the physics defying garbage we see now.

 

- Gear was gear. Some was better than others but it mainly came down to what stats you put your experience points in. Spend xp wisely and you can easily kill an better geared, higher level opponent.

 

- There were no classes. You choose exactly what skills you want your character to have. If you wanted to use war magic and carry a sword go for it!

 

- Dying meant something. You took a 5% penalty to all stats and dropped some of your gear. You had to kill enemies to remove the 5% penalty and loot your corpse to get your stuff back.

 

- Developers would log in as "Bosses" and wreck everyone around them. If you got 40-50 people together you could take them down. They were called "events".

Edited February 8, 2012 by CidTrip

[Nanfoodle]

Good old days thread, how quick we forget all the bad stuff that came with it. I loved my EQ1 days but long gone are my days when I could treat my gaming time as a full time job. Raids were a min of 5-8 hours. I have a family now and a full time job and other things that = a life. I like content to be 1-3 hours. How is taking 30 min to buff people fun? My Shaman had so many buffs I used to go nuts buffing a raid and if I hear someone say one more time, hay can I get a SOW. I will snap off lol Edited February 8, 2012 by Nanfoodle