Took Me Until Level 30 to Realize My Toon Was Gimped

[thomaspraill]

My suspicion is that youre just not a good player / dont know what youre doing.

 

I'm not a huge fan of this game but have played several different classes. While I haven't played shadow specifically I've noticed that of the 4 different ACs I've taken to 30 each one can solo an elite his own level with a bit difficulty (ie. will likely have to pop cooldowns).

[monjiay]

If you are fighting mobs above your level then you are skipping huge numbers of quests. Quests are where the money is.

 

How do you die in this game? More specifically, how do you die enough for repair costs to even be an issue?

[Arsynic]

I play a Consular as well, and I think you've got to be playing wrong/not staying in a lower level zone till you learn your skills. I had no problems in ANY of my Consular specs, and I've got toons leveled in both Shadow and Sage. As far of yoru money problems, you are respeccing WAY too often. It's free the first time, but gets progressively higher if you continue to do so. Here's the thing, if you do a respec and wait a week before respeccing again, it's still free..... so wait a week to try you're spec before going back again. That should save you ALL the creds you spent trying to "fix" yourself.

 

You seem really inexperienced in MMORPG's so reading the codex/reading all the skills in your tree before picking them will help. Or get some of your more experienced real life friends to explain things to you. We've all been there, good luck and I wish you well.

I wouldn't call myself really inexperienced. I've played City of Heroes, DCUO and most recently Champions Online. In Champions I have no issue soloing +3 mobs with my toon. But then again, alot more things were "streamlined". The focus was on alot of passive buffs/debuffs and I didn't have to manage stances or the like.

 

I really don't get all of the "MMO-speak" that are likely offshoots of the EQ and WOW communities. When someone mentioned "kiting" the other day, I assumed they were talking about depositing a bounced check at one bank and trying to withdraw the money from another.

[Arsynic]

at lvl 30 i had around 150-200k i don't see how you keep dying or cannot afford anything, i never had any problems with fighting on my shadow..

 

How do you make money without slicing. I loot gear from low level mobs (everything) and sell it but I can't break 20k doing just that.

[Varlak]

Slicing was nerfed thats why you didnt realised befour it is gimped.

 

And as for class choice well the game is less then 1 month old so you can be sure class are not balanced yet and re-rolling for the FOTM might just get you crying in a month or so if they get nerfed.

[Blynks]

How do you make money without slicing. I loot gear from low level mobs (everything) and sell it but I can't break 20k doing just that.

 

You make money simply questing. Im not really sure how anyone could be broke while leveling up unless they're running nonstop crew skill missions.

[Arsynic]

Read the tooltips to see what they do. Shadow Jedi have multiple "modes" or "stances" that are used for different purposes. Shadow technique is the dps stance and you do a lot more damage but die easily. Combat technique is the tanking stance and you can sustain much more damage, but do less dps.

 

If you use a tank companion and dps it can work but it's much harder. If on the other hand you do the tanking yourself and use a healer companion (ie theran cedrax) you won't kill the mob very fast but you'll survive long enough for it to die anyway. That's your best bet to kill elites.

 

You should also use all your abilities, such as interrupt to stop the mob from casting or channeling his abilities, or to stun it. Slowing the mob down then running around (preferably around a pillar or something like that to break the line of sight from the mob) to gain some time while your companion heal you can also be useful.

 

You also have defensive abilities such as deflection, use them.

 

Some useful tricks that you can do specifically as a Shadow: if there are multiple mobs, approach in stealth and use mind maze on the strongest one first, then kill the weaker mobs, then use "force cloak" to stealth and get out of combat, so you can heal up before taking on the stronger mob (which will now be alone).

This is how I've gotten to level 30 fighting mobs. I ignored the techniques because I didn't understand them. I played in Shadow Technique because I thought since I was a Jedi Shadow that I was supposed to use it. I guess I'm not used to playing an MMO where a single class can play multiple roles. I have only 2 hours to play on a given day and I didn't want to waste that time "researching" how to play the game. This is why a training range would be beneficial. I'd rather try things out with no penalty without having to read a damn manual with language I can barely understand (MMO-speak).

 

I think this thread has given me enough resources to fix what I'm doing wrong. The multiple failed encounters with the Siths really exposed inadequate play style. What frustrates me is that it took getting to level 30 to bring that out.

[AngusFTW]

How do you make money without slicing. I loot gear from low level mobs (everything) and sell it but I can't break 20k doing just that.

the daily space combat missions are fairly easy, get you a tonne of xp and like 15,000 credits a day. Not the best space combat experience though i find it pretty funny except the escort missions but the rewards are there.

 

Slicing isn't as profitable as it once was but the stuff you get from lock boxes and stuff for other crafting skills you can can easily sell on market for credits once you max your level out..

[Arsynic]

I think you need to read about how your class works, possibly respec, and re-evaluate how you're playing. As a darkness spec assassin (Sith Inquistor tank spec, your mirror), I never once felt underpowered leveling, and I've always been able to solo two elites my level, usually without needing to use a healing pack.

 

At level 30 you should be specced something like this, assuming you're tank spec (which I think is probably your best bet for soloing): http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601bIbckbcz.1

 

I'm using the Infiltrator skill tree.

[Nastar]

How do you make money without slicing. I loot gear from low level mobs (everything) and sell it but I can't break 20k doing just that.

 

I currently have Archaeology, Underworld trading and synthweaving.

 

I just sell all the junk items and put blue/epic loot on the GTN.

 

right now i mainly make money by selling Mandelorian Iron wich sells for 15-20k a piece on my server

 

But you'll get alot of money from quests nearing end game, on Ilum you can get 10k from a quest that takes 10-15 mins

[Jylian]

I'm using the Infiltrator skill tree.

 

Oh well the majority of my tips still apply.

[Nytak]

I'm using the Infiltrator skill tree.

 

If you're a 30 shadow and still using Qyzen, maybe you should consider using Theran instead? Heck, my consular is a sage going up the healing tree, and at 26 I prefer Theran to Qyzen (and I just got him all new gear too).

 

Are you in a guild? If gear is an issue, getting into a guild will help, people can make you stuff (and they can make your companions stuff)

 

Need more info. I understand the frustration, especially come mid levels when mobs start to get harder and the gear isn't falling out of the sky like rain...

[Solynn]

I wouldn't call myself really inexperienced. I've played City of Heroes, DCUO and most recently Champions Online. In Champions I have no issue soloing +3 mobs with my toon. But then again, alot more things were "streamlined". The focus was on alot of passive buffs/debuffs and I didn't have to manage stances or the like.

 

I really don't get all of the "MMO-speak" that are likely offshoots of the EQ and WOW communities. When someone mentioned "kiting" the other day, I assumed they were talking about depositing a bounced check at one bank and trying to withdraw the money from another.

 

The games you have just listed show that while you may play games ONLINE, they are nothing like true MMORPG, so my thought that you are inexperienced still stands, at least in the more in depth MMORPG that require you to know your skills.. The combat systems in these games are EASY mode compared to games like WoW, EQ, or SWTOR.

[Leiloni]

I'd rather try things out with no penalty without having to read a damn manual with language I can barely understand (MMO-speak).

 

Unfortunately you have to do just that. Every single person playing this and other MMO's only knows what they know because they put forth the effort to learn it. Read your skills, read posts on this and other websites. You'll figure it out - it's not tough stuff, nor complicated, just stuff you don't yet know. There is information all over the internet on it. You gain skills and talent points slowly over time so you only have one or two new abilities at a time to learn. So you have plenty of time to figure them out. MMO's are like anything else - you get out of it what you put in. Take 20 minutes to read up and figure things out and you'll be fine. I'm sorry, but you're having trouble because you tried to be lazy. We all have lives and plenty of people who play this game have limited time to play as you do. You still need to make an effort to know what you're doing.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Leiloni

[Razhah]

This is what frustrates me about MMORPGs. It's such a crapshoot and a game of trial and error actually rolling a toon that's well-balanced and fun to play with. I rolled a Jedi Consular when my game knowledge was next to nil (what's "slicing", how much does my specialization affect gameplay). On top of that, the game punishes you with ridiculous respec costs. It's "cheaper" to just roll a new toon and start over from scratch (with all the hours of dialogue and hoofing it from point A to B since you have to wait for forever to get a travel power).

 

Since I had no idea what slicing was until too late, my character is broke as a joke as most of my money goes to repairing damaged gear due to my toon being gimped beyond repair. I'm wondering if my Jedi Shadow can be salvaged or if there's really a problem at all. I'm hearing of friends soloing mobs 2 levels above them and I'm getting freaking-owned by Elite Siths even with companions (don't get me started on how *********** useless Qyzen is). Am I supposed to be able to solo Siths 1 level above me? I felt like I was trying to solo a Heroic quest, but it was just a side quest. I'm pretty sure my class spec skill tree is for tanking, but I refuse to slot the tank powers (presence buffs) because I can't tank. My armor level is at 1500 and if it's supposed to be higher, I'm screwed because I can't break 20,000 credits.

 

I've already rolled a Soldier class on another server and not making the same mistakes, but I need to know. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to respec or re-roll? Is my character really gimped or are my expectations just way out of whack?

 

 

Shadows make great tanks. I have one in the upper 20's but I am trying to concentrate on being a healer with my commando first. Jylian had some real good advice so I won't go into re-hashing that but there are some other things you may not be doing as well.

 

1. If you are going to tank, gear is very important. I don't care what game you play, tanks always need to focus on gear moreso than any other class. What I like to do is collect orange moddable gear and then collect commendations from the planets I go to and upgrade via mods.

2. Armor is king. Your combat stance will boost your armor class by 150% so small gains in AC become large gains. My light armored Shadow has better AC than my heavy armored Commando.

3. If you are going to tank, put your talent points in the kinetic tree at first. Later on you can add some to the dps trees although I would avoid the shadow tree (cant remember the name but its the middle one).

4. Crowd control is very important in this game. Your best one has to be used from stealth but it lasts 60 seconds. That is huge for equaling the odds a bit.

5. Look for mods that increase your defense and absorption.

6. Alot of tanks seem to forget this also, use your guard ability on whoever in your group pulls the most aggro. It will reduce theirs and add some of it to yours.

 

Tanking takes some work. It isn't easy like a dps class. That is part of the appeal for me. I hope this helps a bit anyway.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Razhah

[Knewt]

See this is what I don't understand. Shadow Technique vs. Force vs. Combat. When do I use them??? Is there a guide on this?

 

I find MMORPGs very overwhelming at the start because there's just too much to learn in a short period of time and add to the fact that there's no training range (that I know of) to test out newly acquired abilities. It's trial and error and I get so scrambled during combat that I can't assess the effectiveness of each technique while in battle. Is there a guide or something I can read?

 

The Jedi Consular community has some really good resources. Try reading the links from this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=5898

.

[Aloro]

How do you make money without slicing. I loot gear from low level mobs (everything) and sell it but I can't break 20k doing just that.

 

A few general tips on fighting and on making money:

 

* In general, kill weaker foes first. "Standard" foes fall much more quickly than "Strong" foes, but they do more damage than their frailty would suggest. Killing them then focussing on the tougher ones can make most fights easier.

 

* Use your Crowd Control anytime you're entering a tough fight. Removing one foe from the fight can completely change the dynamics.

 

* Situational awareness is an essential skill in MMOs. Always, ALWAYS be aware of what's going on around you. Watch for adds. Watch out to make sure you don't get knocked back off a cliff or into another pack of monsters. Watch for things you can destroy to do damage to nearby foes. Watch out for when foes drop mines, and move away. Don't get tunnel vision and focus on one thing; always keep an eye on what's around you.

 

* The amount of money you earn from foes increases with their level. Also, mobs drop items at around their level. If you're fighting monsters that are much lower level than you, the cash will be low and the drops will be worthless. Fighting monsters at your level or slightly above is optimal in terms of money earned over time, in my experience.

 

* Crafting in MMOs is a money sink. You can't generally earn credits with crafting here until you've spent a LOT of time and money collecting materials, leveling up the skill, reverse engineering to get recipes, and so on. If you enjoy that, more power to you (I do!), but if not, don't worry about it. Focus on gathering skills and just sell what you collect on the GTN, and you'll have enough money for whatever you like. Gathering skills are slicing, scavenging, archaeology, and bioanalysis. All of these can be used in the world to collect resources from nodes, or you can send your companions on missions. Don't use the missions unless you already have money to burn! Just raise the skills by using them on resource nodes, and your crafting will be 100% profit.

[Dianoia]

This is what frustrates me about MMORPGs. It's such a crapshoot and a game of trial and error actually rolling a toon that's well-balanced and fun to play with. I rolled a Jedi Consular when my game knowledge was next to nil (what's "slicing", how much does my specialization affect gameplay). On top of that, the game punishes you with ridiculous respec costs. It's "cheaper" to just roll a new toon and start over from scratch (with all the hours of dialogue and hoofing it from point A to B since you have to wait for forever to get a travel power).

 

Since I had no idea what slicing was until too late, my character is broke as a joke as most of my money goes to repairing damaged gear due to my toon being gimped beyond repair. I'm wondering if my Jedi Shadow can be salvaged or if there's really a problem at all. I'm hearing of friends soloing mobs 2 levels above them and I'm getting freaking-owned by Elite Siths even with companions (don't get me started on how *********** useless Qyzen is). Am I supposed to be able to solo Siths 1 level above me? I felt like I was trying to solo a Heroic quest, but it was just a side quest. I'm pretty sure my class spec skill tree is for tanking, but I refuse to slot the tank powers (presence buffs) because I can't tank. My armor level is at 1500 and if it's supposed to be higher, I'm screwed because I can't break 20,000 credits.

 

I've already rolled a Soldier class on another server and not making the same mistakes, but I need to know. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to respec or re-roll? Is my character really gimped or are my expectations just way out of whack?

 

You're doing a lot wrong, actually.

 

You can make decent creds with ANY tradeskill. Like any other business, you have to figure out what sells best and has the highest return on investment. I'm currently a Syntheweaver, and make $1500-$10,000 credits selling purple belts and bracers. That's profit, not revenue. You may need to make a small investment to get there, but what business doesn't require an initial investment?

 

Before you put points into a talent tree, you need to read the talents. You're allowed a complete preview of every talent tree. Did you read the trees? You openly admit that you went down the tanking tree not wanting to tank?

 

Saying you're not going to use the tanking abilities, because you have low armor is like saying you're not going to put tires on your bike, because your bike doesn't have tires. Those abilities give you the mitigation necessary to be a tank.

 

I'm guessing you have been haphazardly throwing abilities around, with no knowledge whatsoever of your role, rotation, class dynamics, or design. Your class is fine.

 

Go to the Counselor forums and figure out your spec, rotation, and stats.

 

Then, go to the Crewskill forums and figure out how to use your crewskills to make money.

 

Problem solved.

[pjskull]

There is a lot of good advice in this thread. Take it to heart. Read the guides, stickys, FAQs in the class section on your class and also Google "SWTOR Consular Guide" and see what you can find.

 

From a money generation standpoint, at level 30, you should not be respeccing so much that it is costing you a ton of money. Read one of the linked guides, spec out on TORhead and don't worry about respec again until 50.

 

From a money standpoint, run space missions for cash, and PVP will get you a couple grand at 30 (plus, no repair for what happens in PVP).

 

Sell all items that you don't use, green and up, on the GTN. Some will tell you not to sell greens on GTN, to just dump on vendor (and that works too), but I throw them on there once, then if I get them back unsold in email, I sell at that point. A little more work, but you will make a little more for the items that sell on the GTN. (Don't forget to take back your deposit money in the return item emails...)

 

Don't get frustrated, your toon is not gimped. Gimped to me means ruined. This game is very balanced, you can respec your skills, so *everything* is fixable.

 

When in doubt, overlevel for a stretch through Space and PVP. Then your questing will be easy, you can make some money quickly (through questing) and gear up... Rinse, repeat.

 

But first, learn to play your class by doing some reading. Most MMO's are best played learning from the wisdom of others.

[oddmyth]

Not sure how you can't make money.

 

Just looting and questing without doing any dispatches for crew skills. I was at 5k cred at 30 but cred from quest and loot past that I made it to over a million cred by 50. No slicing.

[MasterKayote]

This is what frustrates me about MMORPGs. It's such a crapshoot and a game of trial and error actually rolling a toon that's well-balanced and fun to play with. I rolled a Jedi Consular when my game knowledge was next to nil (what's "slicing", how much does my specialization affect gameplay). On top of that, the game punishes you with ridiculous respec costs. It's "cheaper" to just roll a new toon and start over from scratch (with all the hours of dialogue and hoofing it from point A to B since you have to wait for forever to get a travel power).

 

Since I had no idea what slicing was until too late, my character is broke as a joke as most of my money goes to repairing damaged gear due to my toon being gimped beyond repair. I'm wondering if my Jedi Shadow can be salvaged or if there's really a problem at all. I'm hearing of friends soloing mobs 2 levels above them and I'm getting freaking-owned by Elite Siths even with companions (don't get me started on how *********** useless Qyzen is). Am I supposed to be able to solo Siths 1 level above me? I felt like I was trying to solo a Heroic quest, but it was just a side quest. I'm pretty sure my class spec skill tree is for tanking, but I refuse to slot the tank powers (presence buffs) because I can't tank. My armor level is at 1500 and if it's supposed to be higher, I'm screwed because I can't break 20,000 credits.

 

I've already rolled a Soldier class on another server and not making the same mistakes, but I need to know. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to respec or re-roll? Is my character really gimped or are my expectations just way out of whack?

 

Im kind of on the same boat. I mean, I got slicing because it seemed to fits the class, I liked the idea of a Jedi actually Hacking, and the fact it was OP at first. But thats not my problem. Im not sure if its because I suck/missing something, my class is gimped, or if its intentional ... but im having waaay to much of a hard time fighting anything but weak mobs.

 

I keep hearing how people are soloing Heroic +2's ... and how the game is just so easy ... all the while, there are times when just one Strong level mob takes me down to 20-25% health ... and thats WITH the pet. I do much better if I play off-spec, tanking stance and with my healer pet but why shoudl I have to? Im infiltrator specced, I shouldnt need to be in tank stance!. And I hate Tharan, his CC is funny, but the dude doesnt like what I say too much ... I much rather use Nadia or Zenith. Which doesnt even allow me to solo an elite (which I NEED to solo now and then for class quests). It wasnt bad until level my mid 30's either ... now im almost 50 and its really starting to frustrate.

 

I can understand having to go tank stance with my healer pet to do Heroics which im not meant to solo ... but I shouldnt be dying to anything harder than 1 strong mob with my DPS stance regardless of pet. I was fighting some Strong mobs yesterday in Voss and it was hitting me for 2.5k damage (I have about 9.6k currently), fairly frequently, and with no cast time. If I didnt blow all my CD's and drank a pot, I wouldve definitely died. Hell even with my healer pet put I was still royally owned by two strong mobs! I dont mind having a challenging fight here and there, but when im constantly sucking down pots just to get a quest done, something is wrong. Dont have any other high levels to compare ATM ... but maybe some of you can enlighten me.

[Arsynic]

Great stuff in this thread. Some of them were tough pills to swallow, but I'll get it. Maybe playing all those "baby MMORPGs" made the learning curve bigger than I thought.

[oddmyth]

I can understand having to go tank stance with my healer pet to do Heroics which im not meant to solo ... but I shouldnt be dying to anything harder than 1 strong mob with my DPS stance regardless of pet. I was fighting some Strong mobs yesterday in Voss and it was hitting me for 2.5k damage (I have about 9.6k currently), fairly frequently, and with no cast time. If I didnt blow all my CD's and drank a pot, I wouldve definitely died. Hell even with my healer pet put I was still royally owned by two strong mobs! I dont mind having a challenging fight here and there, but when im constantly sucking down pots just to get a quest done, something is wrong. Dont have any other high levels to compare ATM ... but maybe some of you can enlighten me.

 

Two strongs will certainly require cooldowns and possibly pots. Especially if one of them isn't being CC'ed. Especially as Infil Shadow you should be fighting as few mobs as possible at once.

 

I can solo heroic 2's for the most part but each pack requires all my cooldowns, both my trinkets, medpacs and sometimes micromanaging my healer. I try to avoid at all cost anything with two elites and two strongs, because it will take a Force Cloak to reset and I will have to wait for the cooldowns to come back up before I get the other mobs.

 

You will eat through a lot of medpacs, however you get a lot of medpacs while levelling as well. I think 1-50 I bought about 40 medpacs.

 

All shadows are given Force and Combat technique to be used at your discretion. However to think that just because you have Shadow technique that you should only ever use that technique is unwise.

[Arsynic]

My problem is that I leveled and picked abilities based on what sounded or looked "cool". I liked the idea of going stealth and back-stabbing someone out of the shadows. I almost always own in FPs and Heroics, but anytime threat is focused on me when I solo, I get crushed.

 

I accepted the fact that I was a DPS guy and I would spec based on DPS. But after reading the guide, this game is a lot more technical than I originally thought. I came in expecting Mass Effect MMORPG Edition with a SW skin. The stances REALLY threw me off and it's probably why I do better with mobs (CC Strong leader, clear out adds, destroy Strong leader with sheer DPS). But the Elite mob leaders are a different beast. They heal, buff, debuff, cast and I'm basically trying to apply as much DPS as I can. That's what got me to level 30 (died a few times, but a change in tactics got me through). Now I'm finding out that I really don't know how to play the game solo. In a group, I settle as a DPS with a cool CC ability and a mean alpha strike. Everytime I got in a pickle, someone else would bail me out. However, I'm NEVER the strongest on my team but that never bothered me because my attacks and character looked cool even though I was ineffective.

 

I'm learning new things everyday, but I still have a ways to go. I still don't know how to put items up on the GTN(?) and I've never done PVP which would definitely expose my weaknesses by people who actually know how to play the game.

 

A bigger travesty that I mentioned in the OP is the fact that I got to level 30 by "button-mashing". It makes me sick that I'm such a *********** n00b, but I should have gotten my *** kicked before I reached level 20. It's nice to know that I'm not "gimped" and that a respec and a read-up can fix my woes (I have a free respec).

Edited January 9, 2012 by Arsynic

[Arsynic]

Two strongs will certainly require cooldowns and possibly pots. Especially if one of them isn't being CC'ed. Especially as Infil Shadow you should be fighting as few mobs as possible at once.

 

All shadows are given Force and Combat technique to be used at your discretion. However to think that just because you have Shadow technique that you should only ever use that technique is unwise.

That's what killed me. I thought that hey, since I'm a Jedi Shadow, I should be using Shadow Technique for the best results. I didn't know it was circumstantial.

 

I have a stack of commendations that I'm going to offload to build up my gear. Thanks again for the help guys.