Took Me Until Level 30 to Realize My Toon Was Gimped

[Arsynic]

This is what frustrates me about MMORPGs. It's such a crapshoot and a game of trial and error actually rolling a toon that's well-balanced and fun to play with. I rolled a Jedi Consular when my game knowledge was next to nil (what's "slicing", how much does my specialization affect gameplay). On top of that, the game punishes you with ridiculous respec costs. It's "cheaper" to just roll a new toon and start over from scratch (with all the hours of dialogue and hoofing it from point A to B since you have to wait for forever to get a travel power).

 

Since I had no idea what slicing was until too late, my character is broke as a joke as most of my money goes to repairing damaged gear due to my toon being gimped beyond repair. I'm wondering if my Jedi Shadow can be salvaged or if there's really a problem at all. I'm hearing of friends soloing mobs 2 levels above them and I'm getting freaking-owned by Elite Siths even with companions (don't get me started on how *********** useless Qyzen is). Am I supposed to be able to solo Siths 1 level above me? I felt like I was trying to solo a Heroic quest, but it was just a side quest. I'm pretty sure my class spec skill tree is for tanking, but I refuse to slot the tank powers (presence buffs) because I can't tank. My armor level is at 1500 and if it's supposed to be higher, I'm screwed because I can't break 20,000 credits.

 

I've already rolled a Soldier class on another server and not making the same mistakes, but I need to know. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to respec or re-roll? Is my character really gimped or are my expectations just way out of whack?

[krisslanza]

I have to ask... how can you not afford a respec? The first one is free. This makes me think you've already burned through several respecs.

 

Also this may not be all related to your tree. The game's difficulty shoots up around Tatooine. I used to be able to, on my Knight, go from fight to fight and have to heal every fifth one maybe. I tend to lose 30-40% health in a single encounter from Tatooine on.

[CptJackHarkness]

You won't get a lot of traction on here with complaints like this because every class in the game is good for different reasons. I can't give you constructive crit per se because im a Sith... but I have 4 alts and love all the classes immensely.

[Zlodo]

Were you using combat technique to fight those elites? If not, then there's your problem.

 

Jedi Shadow are a bit weird in that they're squishy as hell when not using combat technique (as they are the only light armor wearing melee) but in combat technique they are on the other hand very durable, because they're supposed to tank as well as other tank classes wearing heavy armor.

[daMarek]

If you have to spend so much money on repair then you are jsut really bad at this game, sorry, I wiped maybe 3 times in the last 3 weeks

[Norbix]

Sorry you're just playing wrong/badly.. didn't read the post. o_O

[PjPablo]

Sorry you're having such a tough time. Couple things I would do:

 

1) Research your class. Read up on the optimal way to play. For example, you say you are using a tank spec but sounds like you aren't using all your abilities. Research!!

 

2) Not sure why you don't have creds. I would try not to buy any gear from GTN or vendors since drops more than cover what you need. As far as crafting I typically avoid it early in game. Too many changes come over time and what might be good now will be terrible later. For comparison my Lvl 25 has approx 65k creds left over after speeder. Not sure that's a lot or not but I don't want for creds. Just don't spend much on gear and crafting. (I don't have slicing either)

 

3) If you are having a tough time with mobs, group up. Ask others for help. It is an MMO after all.

 

Good luck!!

[Rieverre]

... you're vastly overestimating the gains that come from slicing, for one thing. Especially after it's gotten nerfed.

 

Also, what? Presence? What? Presence f*ck-all to do with Tanking, it just affects your companion's base stats.

 

Seriously, the codex is there for a reason. Mouseover tooltips are there for a reason.

 

EDIT: Oh, and it seems like you're running with your tank stance disabled/didn't actually buy it at the trainer.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Rieverre

[krisslanza]

You won't get a lot of traction on here with complaints like this because every class in the game is good for different reasons. I can't give you constructive crit per se because im a Sith... but I have 4 alts and love all the classes immensely.

 

Actually being Sith doesn't matter. The 4 classes on each side (and by extension the 8 advanced classes) are direct mirrors of one another. They just have different names on their abilities.

[Arsynic]

Were you using combat technique to fight those elites? If not, then there's your problem.

 

Jedi Shadow are a bit weird in that they're squishy as hell when not using combat technique (as they are the only light armor wearing melee) but in combat technique they are on the other hand very durable, because they're supposed to tank as well as other tank classes wearing heavy armor.

 

See this is what I don't understand. Shadow Technique vs. Force vs. Combat. When do I use them??? Is there a guide on this?

 

I find MMORPGs very overwhelming at the start because there's just too much to learn in a short period of time and add to the fact that there's no training range (that I know of) to test out newly acquired abilities. It's trial and error and I get so scrambled during combat that I can't assess the effectiveness of each technique while in battle. Is there a guide or something I can read?

[Lokai]

This is what frustrates me about MMORPGs. It's such a crapshoot and a game of trial and error actually rolling a toon that's well-balanced and fun to play with. I rolled a Jedi Consular when my game knowledge was next to nil (what's "slicing", how much does my specialization affect gameplay). On top of that, the game punishes you with ridiculous respec costs. It's "cheaper" to just roll a new toon and start over from scratch (with all the hours of dialogue and hoofing it from point A to B since you have to wait for forever to get a travel power).

 

Since I had no idea what slicing was until too late, my character is broke as a joke as most of my money goes to repairing damaged gear due to my toon being gimped beyond repair. I'm wondering if my Jedi Shadow can be salvaged or if there's really a problem at all. I'm hearing of friends soloing mobs 2 levels above them and I'm getting freaking-owned by Elite Siths even with companions (don't get me started on how *********** useless Qyzen is). Am I supposed to be able to solo Siths 1 level above me? I felt like I was trying to solo a Heroic quest, but it was just a side quest. I'm pretty sure my class spec skill tree is for tanking, but I refuse to slot the tank powers (presence buffs) because I can't tank. My armor level is at 1500 and if it's supposed to be higher, I'm screwed because I can't break 20,000 credits.

 

I've already rolled a Soldier class on another server and not making the same mistakes, but I need to know. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to respec or re-roll? Is my character really gimped or are my expectations just way out of whack?

 

have to wonder how your getting owned so badly... my assassin is exact mirror with yes the tanking tree and i NEVER have issues! are you using commendations to buy gear? because that helps... also your armor should NEVER be an issue, because of the TANKING buff you get! i cant imagine how you spent all your cash i have to say that... this is a player issue not a game issue and i suspect you'll hit same issues on a trooper. Also slicing is far from useless... i still make profit on each mission enough to cover the cost of sending my people out but then its easier to level it and FAR faster to just go grind lock boxes also more pure profit!

 

money is so easy in this game... i can only assume you kept respecing and are now broke because of it.

[PjPablo]

See this is what I don't understand. Shadow Technique vs. Force vs. Combat. When do I use them??? Is there a guide on this?

 

I find MMORPGs very overwhelming at the start because there's just too much to learn in a short period of time and add to the fact that there's no training range (that I know of) to test out newly acquired abilities. It's trial and error and I get so scrambled during combat that I can't assess the effectiveness of each technique while in battle. Is there a guide or something I can read?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=458

[Arsynic]

Sorry you're just playing wrong/badly.. didn't read the post. o_O

If you actually spent the time to read the damn post, you would have seen that I acknowledged that this might be the case. I'm soliciting feedback on what I need to change.

[Bamajawn]

Sorry you're having such a tough time. Couple things I would do:

 

1) Research your class. Read up on the optimal way to play. For example, you say you are using a tank spec but sounds like you aren't using all your abilities. Research!!

 

2) Not sure why you don't have creds. I would try not to buy any gear from GTN or vendors since drops more than cover what you need. As far as crafting I typically avoid it early in game. Too many changes come over time and what might be good now will be terrible later. For comparison my Lvl 25 has approx 65k creds left over after speeder. Not sure that's a lot or not but I don't want for creds. Just don't spend much on gear and crafting. (I don't have slicing either)

 

3) If you are having a tough time with mobs, group up. Ask others for help. It is an MMO after all.

 

Good luck!!

 

Well said, that's good advice.

 

I bought my speeder two days ago and it broke me, but I had another 85k by last evening, which I blew on level 40 ship upgrades by accident. I didn't realize they were level 40, I wasn't paying enough attention. Over the weekend, I put in about ten hours of play total. Here's what I do at level 29:

 

1. I buy little on the GTN. However, I sell a lot.

2. I'm an armormech with scavenging and underworld trading skills. UT missions cost a great deal. I try to evaluate which gear will sell well and concentrate on higher quality gear, orange if possible. I've at least paid for my UT missions by selling crafted gear. I have a couple of rare schematics that are my bread and butter. UT resources that I don't need go on the GTN.

3. I loot and scavenge everything I can. I regular kill NPCs who are sitting on a resource.

4. I also sell the better loot on the GTN.

5. I sacrificed by not doing ship upgrades regularly. I feel that my armor and weapons are good and that my companions are well fitted out.

 

In short, I play the game a bit slowly by the standards of some folks because I stop to scavenge and spend some time each day at the GTN. When I log out at night at Fleet, I queue up crew missions, then get on in the morning and put the gear on the GTN.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Bamajawn

[Arsynic]

Sorry you're having such a tough time. Couple things I would do:

 

1) Research your class. Read up on the optimal way to play. For example, you say you are using a tank spec but sounds like you aren't using all your abilities. Research!!

 

2) Not sure why you don't have creds. I would try not to buy any gear from GTN or vendors since drops more than cover what you need. As far as crafting I typically avoid it early in game. Too many changes come over time and what might be good now will be terrible later. For comparison my Lvl 25 has approx 65k creds left over after speeder. Not sure that's a lot or not but I don't want for creds. Just don't spend much on gear and crafting. (I don't have slicing either)

 

3) If you are having a tough time with mobs, group up. Ask others for help. It is an MMO after all.

 

Good luck!!

Thanks. I do realize that I can group up for help, but it's frustrating when you feel like a god one minute and a gimped weakling the next. Then there's other people who are running the same mobs solo and not having the same issues.

[daemian]

Well, there's no rush. Just spend some time reading up on your class, and have fun with it.

[Qoojo]

See this is what I don't understand. Shadow Technique vs. Force vs. Combat. When do I use them??? Is there a guide on this?

 

Combat is your tanking stance. IRC, it increases the chance of the shield firing, increases armor, and gives you some health for hits, but isn't worth as much much if you didn't take the tanking options in the defense tree IMO. Force is a generic DPS stance. Shadow, I don't know about because I never looked into it.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Qoojo

[CptJackHarkness]

Actually being Sith doesn't matter. The 4 classes on each side (and by extension the 8 advanced classes) are direct mirrors of one another. They just have different names on their abilities.

 

I've heard this but I didn't know for sure... Commando and BH do seem different in some ways just as the Consular and Inquisitor do but I could be wrong.

[Solynn]

This is what frustrates me about MMORPGs. It's such a crapshoot and a game of trial and error actually rolling a toon that's well-balanced and fun to play with. I rolled a Jedi Consular when my game knowledge was next to nil (what's "slicing", how much does my specialization affect gameplay). On top of that, the game punishes you with ridiculous respec costs. It's "cheaper" to just roll a new toon and start over from scratch (with all the hours of dialogue and hoofing it from point A to B since you have to wait for forever to get a travel power).

 

Since I had no idea what slicing was until too late, my character is broke as a joke as most of my money goes to repairing damaged gear due to my toon being gimped beyond repair. I'm wondering if my Jedi Shadow can be salvaged or if there's really a problem at all. I'm hearing of friends soloing mobs 2 levels above them and I'm getting freaking-owned by Elite Siths even with companions (don't get me started on how *********** useless Qyzen is). Am I supposed to be able to solo Siths 1 level above me? I felt like I was trying to solo a Heroic quest, but it was just a side quest. I'm pretty sure my class spec skill tree is for tanking, but I refuse to slot the tank powers (presence buffs) because I can't tank. My armor level is at 1500 and if it's supposed to be higher, I'm screwed because I can't break 20,000 credits.

 

I've already rolled a Soldier class on another server and not making the same mistakes, but I need to know. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to respec or re-roll? Is my character really gimped or are my expectations just way out of whack?

 

I play a Consular as well, and I think you've got to be playing wrong/not staying in a lower level zone till you learn your skills. I had no problems in ANY of my Consular specs, and I've got toons leveled in both Shadow and Sage. As far of yoru money problems, you are respeccing WAY too often. It's free the first time, but gets progressively higher if you continue to do so. Here's the thing, if you do a respec and wait a week before respeccing again, it's still free..... so wait a week to try you're spec before going back again. That should save you ALL the creds you spent trying to "fix" yourself.

 

You seem really inexperienced in MMORPG's so reading the codex/reading all the skills in your tree before picking them will help. Or get some of your more experienced real life friends to explain things to you. We've all been there, good luck and I wish you well.

[krisslanza]

I've heard this but I didn't know for sure... Commando and BH do seem different in some ways just as the Consular and Inquisitor do but I could be wrong.

 

At their core they are mirrors. Their might be some minor variations in ability and, especially, animations. The animations, at the moment, is what is causing the "imbalance". The Inquisitor animations seem to be more fluid and easier to chain into something, then the ones on a Consular for example.

[Nastar]

at lvl 30 i had around 150-200k i don't see how you keep dying or cannot afford anything, i never had any problems with fighting on my shadow..

[Zlodo]

See this is what I don't understand. Shadow Technique vs. Force vs. Combat. When do I use them??? Is there a guide on this?

Read the tooltips to see what they do. Shadow Jedi have multiple "modes" or "stances" that are used for different purposes. Shadow technique is the dps stance and you do a lot more damage but die easily. Combat technique is the tanking stance and you can sustain much more damage, but do less dps.

 

If you use a tank companion and dps it can work but it's much harder. If on the other hand you do the tanking yourself and use a healer companion (ie theran cedrax) you won't kill the mob very fast but you'll survive long enough for it to die anyway. That's your best bet to kill elites.

 

You should also use all your abilities, such as interrupt to stop the mob from casting or channeling his abilities, or to stun it. Slowing the mob down then running around (preferably around a pillar or something like that to break the line of sight from the mob) to gain some time while your companion heal you can also be useful.

 

You also have defensive abilities such as deflection, use them.

 

Some useful tricks that you can do specifically as a Shadow: if there are multiple mobs, approach in stealth and use mind maze on the strongest one first, then kill the weaker mobs, then use "force cloak" to stealth and get out of combat, so you can heal up before taking on the stronger mob (which will now be alone).

Edited January 9, 2012 by Zlodo

[Andryah]

If you actually spent the time to read the damn post, you would have seen that I acknowledged that this might be the case. I'm soliciting feedback on what I need to change.

 

OK, I'm new to this game as well. I am playing 5 different characters in rotation through leveling up. All are in their high 20s now. I have not had any issues with any class or advance class whatsoever near what you are describing. And I have to relearn each one as I select it and play it because I just played four others before it. They each have their strengths and weaknesses, but they are all powerful enough to rarely die (even on elites), even when I get accidental adds.

 

Yeah, I'm experienced in playing MMOs. But this game is quit different, so there was a lot to learn. AND YES, trial and error as a result.

 

I took the time to read and evaluate how each skill works, and then test it in the field and adjust my play until I had a skill rotation that felt optimal for my play style. You must learn to do the same, nobody can teach you how to play a class. There are plenty of guides on fan sites now that give you tips, pointers, and advice on all of the player classes. Use the internet. There are a lot of resources out there or you.

 

As for economics in this game, I averaged ~ 100K credits on each of my characters at level 25 AFTER buyiing my speeder skill and all relevant skill updates. Credits are easier to obtain in this game then any prior MMO I have played. So I have no clue why you would be so broke in your 30s. Slicing is simply one component of the game and it will generate cash, but so do the other gathering skills. They all generate credits at about the same pace now, but you have to figure out how to convert the gathered materials into credits (Bioware made this easy though as every tradeskill has some recipes that generate good cash from materials (by just vendoring the results).

[Jylian]

I rolled a shadow tank too from day 1 and have no 0 issues with any quests at all. If you actually like reading, theorycrafting etc, I'd recommend doing research. Literally hundreds of sites out there.

 

But here are some general hints to make your questing easier as a shadow (tank).

 

#1, Use Cedran or whatever his name is. He's your best and only healer (I don't count the droid as a healer b/c he's garbage). You're permitted to use the droid, but replace him immediately for Cedran forever.

 

#2, Slow time, Force Breach. They apply nifty debuffs to the enemies (They're both AoE, and you better be in combat technique. More armor, Threat, and heal on attack? WIN) that will make you live longer.

 

#3, Mind Haze, Sap whatever. So many golds/silvers/champions can be sapped. So 3 mobs, 1 elite, 2 regulars. You'd sap the elite. Take out the weaklings first then go again on the elite, 1on1! You gotta cut down on enemy #s as much as you can. And obviously stealth to sap, either sprint up (Force speed?) or blackout etc. Either way, cut down on the hard mobs when you fight monsters to survive more.

 

#4, Kinetic Ward (aka shield block), keep this up as much as you can. Increases your block % = decreases the damage you take = more life you have = more damage you can deal = more credits you save because you're not dying etc etc.

 

#5, Force Stun/Interrupts/The spinning kick. Stunned enemies deal a cool 0 damage to you, so why aren't you using these on CDs? I never let enemies cast anything. Between me and Cedran, it usually goes like this. My interrupt, my stun, holiday, my interrupt, mob dead. Interrupting spells once again = decreases the damage you take, refer to my flow chart in #4.

 

#6, Your other cooldowns. Battle Readiness is pretty decent. 10% heal (talented) plus like 300% extra healing from your technique. Deflection -50% damage taken for 12 seconds. The 2 special cooldowns you can only use with your companion. Unity and...one with the force? Or whatever I'm making up names now, but those are HUGE. You can solo anything with the 20minute cooldown. Resilience (Cloak of shadows) is damn nice too.

 

#7, If you're about to die, Cloak and Vanish. Resilience...and uhhh Force Cloak. 95% of the times you will live. The mobs will reset and you will have saved yourself from a death.

 

There are plenty of other tips I can give you, but these should suffice for now. Good luck!

Edited January 9, 2012 by Jylian

[Putok]

I think you need to read about how your class works, possibly respec, and re-evaluate how you're playing. As a darkness spec assassin (Sith Inquistor tank spec, your mirror), I never once felt underpowered leveling, and I've always been able to solo two elites my level, usually without needing to use a healing pack.

 

At level 30 you should be specced something like this, assuming you're tank spec (which I think is probably your best bet for soloing): http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601bIbckbcz.1