Strong "Silver" Enemies are Getting Rediculous.

[ounkeo]

It's odd for sure. My vanguard trooper is almost 50 and since the low 40's, I just kept telling myself how much more difficult would this be with a less tanky class. Even with all orange current modded gear and a healer pet (I keep her gear current and it's all orange stuff), some of the silvers are walking trainwrecks.

 

For example, on Voss, a Stage 2 mission has you summon 2 silver mobs. Holy hell, even blowing every single cooldown and medpack, they'd still kill me before I could even down one. If I get my pet to take one mob, she ends up dying then me.

 

Took 4 deaths to finally beat them by a hair with everything on cooldown. Pet also nearly dead.

 

Also, a great example of overly pwoerful silver mobs are the Voss cyborg mobs in the caves. Just ONE of the silver mobs will drop you to 20% hp even after you blow defensives. It's a steady stream of 400+400+400+400+400+400+400+400+400+400 hits that you can't interrupt. You stun them but they get right back at you doing that. They don't exactly die quick either with 12.5k hp. So i HAVE to blow 25% damage reduction timer AND pop a large medpack every single silver fight.

 

Then I got to the gold mob and killed him without even blowing a single defensive or even using a medpack. I'd rather the end mobs be tough, not the trash mobs.

[Kunra]

After reading alot of posts in this thread, i'm starting to think we need a thread asking "who leveled easy/difficult" with people stating what Class they leveled.

[Apache]

I do agree that Silver mobs definately do more damage than they should.

 

But as far as Tank companions go, I think its a flaw with the Companions tanking abilities in regards to Silver Mobs for some reason.

 

I have a high level BH Merc and a mid level Sorc healer.

 

My Merc BH can tank Silver mobs with Mako (BH Healing companion) healing me better than Skadge (The BH tank companion) can with myself healing my tank companion.

 

On my Sorc Healer, Khem Val (Sorc Tank companion), I can easily heal and fight 4 and 5 regular mobs with Khem easily tanking them. But Khem gets the tar beat out of him when tanking just one Silver mob. I have to pay close attention to Khem or the one Silver will kill him. But for some reason Khem can tank Gold mobs much better with much better damage mitigation.

 

Im not sure whats going on, but I Beta tested multiple builds, and remember that BW changed something in the way that companion tanks mitigated damage in the last two builds.

 

Before those last two builds I was testing Sorc and remeber that Khem was a true tank. Khem didnt do a lot of damage but could definately take it. Then during the last two builds Khem was suddenly a chump taking far more damage than he did in prior builds. Especially when fighting Silver mobs.

 

This change is the reason that I rolled a Merc BH at launch instead of a healer Sorc like I was originally going to.

 

I wish they would change the companion tanking abilities to where they were before in mid Beta. The Tank companions were much more effective.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Apache

[Jaramukhti]

It must just be exclusive to certain classes, this issue.

 

As a 46 Jugg, I have NEVER had any problems with strong enemies. I can take several at a time, with additional normal adds, like they are nothing.

 

It might be because I use Malavai (my healer) as my primary companion. So maybe it also has to do with companion choice. When I was going from 40-50 on my IA, I did notice that things got much more manageable once I started using Lokin and keeping his gear up-to-date. When I used other companions, I found myself kiting bosses more, and using pillars and such for LOS.

 

OP, try using your healing companion more, and use any and all dmg mitigation abilities early and often.

[ounkeo]

It's all in the perspective.

 

This game is very well balanced when it comes to difficulty. Thing is, we mostly get around Normal and what I call "normal silver" mobs. There are silver ones that are a bit tougher.

 

What changes is our strategy. We can use the same 4-5 skills for everything, but then we get pissed off when that strategy doesn't work on harder mobs, so we uselessly pop all CDs without thinking and end up dying.

 

EVERY time I've died to a "ridiculously hard" mob, the second, or third attempt, was MUCH more easier, after having thought out what to do with the encounter and how to proceed with caution.

 

Please, Bioware, don't listen to people who say it's too hard. This type of game needs a challenge where a 1-2 deaths should be normal before understanding how to deal with a harder mob.

 

It just makes killing it much more satisfactory.

 

You realise these are trash mobs right? Trash mobs are junk mobs/ filler as you reach the final thing. Fighting a single trash mob should not be harder than fighting the final boss of a quest. That's just broken logic.

 

They are also very time consuming to kill in quantity.

[Ellvaan]

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[Jaramukhti]

I'm not calling for nerfs or anything, but I will say that I have noticed a trend.

 

Strongs normally have low HP, but deal a lot of damage.

 

Elites will have massive HP pools, but much less damage.

 

Between those two choiced, the Strong is much more dangerous to some of the more squishy classes.

 

My problem is that I am being forced to level a certain way. The game throws a couple Strongs at me and I find myself forced to use a healing companion. But the thing is, I don't WANT to use my healing companion. I want to use the companion I've been using and I like using.

 

So why does the game feel the need to not let me?

 

Healing companions make things easier, but you can do any and all quests with any companion composition. You just have to get more creative when you fight. You are going to have to LOS enemies often, use your terrain, kite when necessary, all the while keeping the enemy on you while your companion whittles them down. Get creative.

[Zortezurtek]

Damage reduction cooldowns, stuns, and interrupts. They help a lot.

[Jaramukhti]

You realise these are trash mobs right? Trash mobs are junk mobs/ filler as you reach the final thing. Fighting a single trash mob should not be harder than fighting the final boss of a quest. That's just broken logic.

 

They are also very time consuming to kill in quantity.

 

Example please. I'm not egging you on or anything, I genuinely would appreciate an example, since I can't, for the life of me, think of any instance where strongs were too overwhelming.:\

[soulself]

Example please. I'm not egging you on or anything, I genuinely would appreciate an example, since I can't, for the life of me, think of any instance where strongs were too overwhelming.:\

 

I know on Quesh i was going through a quest chain where i fount a sith apprentice that was a strong and had another strong with him that i nearly died but then when i fought his master who was a elite with two normal mods i walked through that fight without any trouble.

 

hell i've even pulled two elites and won with less trouble then when i pull 2 strong mobs.

[Cerion]

I repeat again...I don't find them difficult; I find them annoying at high level when they're treated as trash mobs. It simply doesn't feel terribly heroic to slog through these masses of strongs.

 

When I watch the films or the animated series, Star Wars heroes are annihilating everything in sight, quickly. They're running from objective to objective. boom boom. Punctuated by moments of truly challenging content.

 

SWTOR does a reasonable job of capturing this feeling pre-40. Post 40, when caves and hallways have Stong mobs every 30 meters, it's a lame-assed slow-paced slog. Fight through one group...meditate....fight through another group....meditate....fight through the next group...meditate. It's not a challenge. At all. It's annoying. It's boring. It has nothing to do with L2P.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Cerion

[Kunra]

I repeat again...I don't find them difficult; I find them annoying at high level when they're treated as trash mobs. It simply doesn't feel terribly heroic to slog through these masses of strongs.

 

When I watch the films or the animated series, Star Wars heroes are annihilating everything in sight, quickly. They're running from objective to objective. boom boom. Punctuated by moments of truly challenging content.

 

SWTOR does a reasonable job of capturing this feeling pre-40. Post 40, when caves and hallways have Stong mobs every 30 meters, it's a lame-assed slow-paced slog. Fight through one group...meditate....fight through another group....meditate....fight through the next group...meditate. It's not a challenge. At all. It's annoying. It's boring. It has nothing to do with L2P.

 

I like you.

[Lexster]

Eh, definately think its more of random mob types than silver in general. For instance, sith harrowers in the jedi knight story are pretty rediculous for their level, and you are supposed to drop 3 of em. On Quesh, the strong gamorrians near the imperial camp hit pretty damn hard too.

 

I think the biggest issue is they went and said the game story is designed for solo experiences, when the game is an MMO. What they should have said in the beginning is that you will need help from others and designed the game accordingly.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Lexster

[Cerion]

I like you.

 

haha, well thanks....

 

I should point out that SWTOR isn't alone in this. It seems all MMOs succumb to this cheap device. I'd hoped SWTOR had abandon this design...not so. It only started to get to me on Corellia. But I'm sad to say, if future Xpacs are going to be like this, then I'm not going to be happy.

[Jaramukhti]

I repeat again...I don't find them difficult; I find them annoying at high level when they're treated as trash mobs. It simply doesn't feel terribly heroic to slog through these masses of strongs.

 

When I watch the films or the animated series, Star Wars heroes are annihilating everything in sight, quickly. They're running from objective to objective. boom boom. Punctuated by moments of truly challenging content.

 

SWTOR does a reasonable job of capturing this feeling pre-40. Post 40, when caves and hallways have Stong mobs every 30 meters, it's a lame-assed slow-paced slog. Fight through one group...meditate....fight through another group....meditate....fight through the next group...meditate. It's not a challenge. At all. It's annoying. It's boring. It has nothing to do with L2P.

 

I don't know what to say. I've never had to use Channel Anger on my toon in a good while. Maybe Juggs/Guardians are op (I doubt it) for PvE, but with Malavai, my defensive mitigation abilities that trigger with Force Scream and Retaliation, my Smash that lowers accuracy, and my short term ccs and knockbacks, I barely get pushed below 90% health even by large packs of strong/norm mobs.

 

I won't say L2P. I don't know you and your play style. I just... Don't know what to say. Good luck?

Edited February 27, 2012 by Jaramukhti

[CeruleanNite]

I repeat again...I don't find them difficult; I find them annoying at high level when they're treated as trash mobs. It simply doesn't feel terribly heroic to slog through these masses of strongs.

 

When I watch the films or the animated series, Star Wars heroes are annihilating everything in sight, quickly. They're running from objective to objective. boom boom. Punctuated by moments of truly challenging content.

 

SWTOR does a reasonable job of capturing this feeling pre-40. Post 40, when caves and hallways have Stong mobs every 30 meters, it's a lame-assed slow-paced slog. Fight through one group...meditate....fight through another group....meditate....fight through the next group...meditate. It's not a challenge. At all. It's annoying. It's boring. It has nothing to do with L2P.

 

I agree with you on this. When leveling my BH to 50, questing pre 40 even pre 45 wasnt fairly fast. But once you hit Correila it does slow down having to fight through the numerous strongs.

 

Was able to do it but it took longer then I expected and I have found quite a few elites that where easier then the strongs in how they hit.

[Cerion]

I don't know what to say. I've never had to use Channel Anger on my toon in a good while. Maybe Juggs/Guardians are op (I doubt it) for PvE, but with Malavai, my defensive mitigation abilities that trigger with Force Scream and Retaliation, my Smash that lowers accuracy, and my short term ccs and knockbacks, I barely get pushed below 90% health even by large packs of strong/norm mobs.

 

I won't say L2P. I don't know you and your play style. I just... Don't know what to say. Good luck?

 

Should we all be resigned to play with our healer companion then? Will post-50 xpacs obsolete all other companions but the healer?

 

Again. It's the pacing. Fighting multiple Strongs just takes longer. I'm perfectly capable of doing it. I'm also capable of taking on elite golds 2 levels above me without my healer companion. (or I was until I hit 50...I don't think there are any 52 level golds, are there?).

 

Or as a thought experiment, let's imagine a facility with Champion MOBS every 30 meters (non-FP, non-heroic). And you have to fight a couple dozen on your way to your objective. Yes...people can slog through this as well. 5-10 minutes per fight, lol. But the pacing would be outlandish.

 

Now that was an extreme example...I'm not comparing Strongs to Champions. But having Strongs all over the place starts to affect, negatively, the pacing of the game.

[Dinoviking]

My biggest issue with strong mobs is the sheer inconsistency in their power level. I have run across strongs that are stronger than any elite, and I have run across strongs that might as well be standards.

 

I dread whenever I have to fight 2 strongs. Especially when they have 2 or more standards/weaks along with them. Sometimes, even one strong can be a pain in the rear if he has 4 or more standards or weaks backing him up.

 

Strong enemies are supposed to be one step below elites. Strong enough to be a challenge, but, generally, not powerful enough to kill you by themselves. With proper back up, several standard or weak enemies, a single strong can overpower and defeat you. This is as it should be, being as you are outnumbered, and is fine by me. 2 strong enemies SHOULD work the same way. Instead of having one strong and several lesser enemies, you have two strong ones. Should work the same way. Powerful enough to kill you if you screw up, but beatable if you do well. Unfortunately, it rarely works out this way. Instead, the two strong enemies simply ramp themselves up to stupid levels of power and slaughter you without you even having a chance. This doesn't happen every time obviously, but it happens often enough to be a problem. This is the inconsistency I'm talking about. Are two strongs supposed to be downable, or impossible? Because I've seen them do both.

 

Granted, I see elites the same way. Some are overpowered and virtually unbeatable without either outleveling them by 2+ or by getting someone to help. Others are no stronger than an equivalent level strong. Yet others, are somewhere in-between.

 

This is primarily referring to enemies that are the same level as the player. Enemies that are significantly higher or lower in level are another story.

 

Just my personal observation and opinion. I'm not going to say that the game is too hard, because it isn't. I am going to complain that the enemy difficulty is decidedly inconsistent, and needs to be addressed.

 

Your mileage may vary of course.

 

Have a nice day.

[Cerion]

Just my personal observation and opinion. I'm not going to say that the game is too hard, because it isn't. I am going to complain that the enemy difficulty is decidedly inconsistent, and needs to be addressed.

 

Your mileage may vary of course.

 

Have a nice day.

 

I agree. There are noticeable inconsistencies -- those inconsistencies can be exacerbated by the different builds and roles of each class. For example, I think those Vorantiki things on Voss might be easier for a ranged class over a melee.

 

But even those variances in difficulty don't address the issue of slowed pacing that multiple Strong MOBs presents. I'd almost prefer to have something like multiple packs of standards/weaks punctuated occasionally by a gold elite. This would be faster paced, even though it might take the same amount of time to finish the dungeon.

 

I mean, Star Wars is about blasting through minions left and right, and THEN confronting Darth Maul/Greivous/Jabba/Vader. I'm trying to think of a Strong equivalent character in the movies. Bib Fortuna?

[Kheld]

On my JK ive had to stop using other pets in favour of the Healer. Even then Gold mobs kill me off occaisonally. I have crafters to 400 in everything & I always keep my & my pets gear updated.

 

This game did not have a robust QA process in development.

[Mannic]

On my JK ive had to stop using other pets in favour of the Healer. Even then Gold mobs kill me off occaisonally. I have crafters to 400 in everything & I always keep my & my pets gear updated.

 

This game did not have a robust QA process in development.

 

There were half a dozen threads in the beta forums right before release saying that BW overdid it a little bit on the density of strong mobs. They changed the difficulty level at the last minute, right before the weekend beta. It went from ludicrously easy to annoyingly tedious. They were warned. Bioware hears what they want to hear, and they react to story issues before anything else because to them, that's what's important.

[ArmchairMagpie]

From my lengthy dealings of strong mobs I have found that power levels are inconsistent because of stacking debuffs especially armor reducing ones and dots.

Lots of dots do tick per second that mean in case you get a dot applied ticking for 90 per second and have 5 of them on you then you'll have to deal with bursts flooring at 450 DPS.

 

In addition melee is far more powerful than ranged, you can't kite them, they are more resilient than ranged, they come with a devastating arsenal of instants - my favourite in this regard are Talz Commandos. In contrast to that sniper mobs are the weakest, in fact even sniper champions are a snorefest as their damage levels are on level of the weakest silver melee mob (those with just one standard attack). I have seen mobs with blaster and sniper rifles used with standard attack only dealing far more damage.

 

But on the other hand I have noticed quite a few people getting unnecessarily killed by them because they ignored them. Always kill mobs from weakest to strongest and not vice versa because these weaker mobs are added DPS and debuffers for the strongest mob of the chain.

[ounkeo]

Was doing Corellia last night and got to the Silver Sith Battlers. The mobs who cast 3500 damage attack spells every 4 seconds.

 

On my 12.5k HP, 49% mitigation, 44% shield chance tank spec Vanguard at the same level (49), I can only solo it with my healer pet (orange gear, 950 aim @ 49). i can intermittently disrupt this mob but in between he is also casting a rather pwoerful spell of sorts and the bigger spell always gets through every other interrupt cooldown/cryo-nade.

 

Blow -25% dmg reduction, drink 3k hp med pack, pet healing me like crazy just to keep up with one silver trash mob for a minor quest.

 

At one point, I ran out of nomral mobs to kill for th equest and had no choice but to tag the last silver and another silver ran up from behind a rock. I blew everything and died real fast. Their combined damage completely overwhelmed my defences and ALL my cooldowns; what i consider to be really good defenses for a sub 50 toon.

 

I'f I didn't need the commendations, I'd go back to Voss and Hoth to complete the bonus there. I still have a ton of quests I havent done there.