Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Andryah]

I'll just end my thoughts on the subject by saying that so long as combat logs, damage meters, addons and macros are optional secondary features that need to be sought out and enabled; there is no reason for anyone to argue against their existence.

 

 

There is if said tools are easily misused by epeen waving malcontents upon other game players. This got out of hand in WoW, and even to some degree in Rift, IMO.

 

We can't get rid of the epeen wavers in MMOs, but at least lets not give them more tools to use against fellow game members.

 

Yeah yeah, "guns don't kill people"........ old tired analogy, AND guns do create instability in society to some degree, BECAUSE people misuse them to harm others.

 

I do not support 3rd party mods under any circumstances. I would support in game mod type features IF, and ONLY IF, it is virtually impossible to use them for anything but data analysis for ones self. But I do not really believe that is what is advocated for by those who are advocating. People want these as an instrument (directly or indirectly) of power over other players, often in the guise of "good for raid performance and progression".

[Jadedfate]

I would be for an in game meter that shows my damage amount to me...but not for one that's necessarily broadcasting to everyone so that it can be held against you...if you want to use it to tune personally, great..but I'm totally against something that some loser that spends his life on MMO's is going to use to alienate other people who aren't as l33t as they are.

[AlpsStranger]

I would be for an in game meter that shows my damage amount to me...but not for one that's necessarily broadcasting to everyone so that it can be held against you...if you want to use it to tune personally, great..but I'm totally against something that some loser that spends his life on MMO's is going to use to alienate other people who aren't as l33t as they are.

 

But wait, I thought the anti-addon people were all super rainman-class DPS monsters who did the most DPS anyhow.

[GalacticKegger]

That depends on how mad they get when I paste their damage.

 

I think I gave this one anti-meter guy a heart attack in Rift when I used the external real-time parser and a little "Ctr-V" action. He was all like **** this, I quit, etc. It was fun, and he was mad bro.

The pentultimate example of epeening right here. I'd like to see a combat log but mindsets like this make it real easy to vote no. Edited January 8, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Sigmah]

There is if said tools are easily misused by epeen waving malcontents upon other game players. This got out of hand in WoW, and even to some degree in Rift, IMO.

 

We can't get rid of the epeen wavers in MMOs, but at least lets not give them more tools to use against fellow game members.

 

Yeah yeah, "guns don't kill people"........ old tired analogy, AND guns do create instability in society to some degree, BECAUSE people misuse them to harm others.

 

I do not support 3rd party mods under any circumstances. I would support in game mod type features IF, and ONLY IF, it is virtually impossible to use them for anything but data analysis for ones self. But I do not really believe that is what is advocated for by those who are advocating. People want these as an instrument (directly or indirectly) of power over other players, often in the guise of "good for raid performance and progression".

 

This is like the weakest arguement I have heard in any venue, and its constantly repeated here.

 

It makes people act like jerks. What kind of dumb arguement is that, THESE PEOPLE WILL BE JERKS WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE DAMAGE METERS

[Alexthree]

Raiding was a lot different before addons and a lot more fun. You wouldn't understand. Raiding is a paint by numbers experience in WoW. Very lame imo.

 

Yes, I know exactly what recount is. Yes, it makes the game a lot easier. That's why you want it.

 

But a dps chart is just a test. A test doesn't make you smarter- it shows you how well you know the material. You test yourself, then you know what you need to do to improve. It is a tool.

 

Easier isn't the right word. A tool make a job possible- without it, you can't even try. DPS meters make theorycrafting possible. A combat log makes it possible. Without these things it is pointless to try. You're just doing what you hope is the best you can do. You have no measure of how well you're doing.

 

And a guild that wants to have only the best of the best, and make sure everyone is pulling their weight, would have no way to weed out the weak links.

 

 

What do you mean "you wouldn't understand." How can you throw out a general "i've played more mmo than you" when you know nothing about me? Try to keep the personal aspect out of this discussion.

 

 

Oh, btw, you realise it's optional right? What we're talking about?

 

I would like your response to my previous statement: I want this feature. Its addition to the game won't affect you, because it will be optional. Adding it makes me happy and doesn't affect you. Why do you want to prevent the happiness of some people? Why do you feel the need to force your way of playing on others? Please respond to this. If you really don't care what we do, please stop arguing against DPS meters.

[Gohlar]

This is like the weakest arguement I have heard in any venue, and its constantly repeated here.

 

It makes people act like jerks. What kind of dumb arguement is that, THESE PEOPLE WILL BE JERKS WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE DAMAGE METERS

 

I actually agree. The tool does make it easier to pick on others but that's not the reason they are bad for the game.

 

Why not just have an addon that just tells you the optimal rotation? Rogues had one. Let's just cut out the middle man all together!

 

Hopefully you get my point.

 

Oh, btw, you realise it's optional right? What we're talking about?

 

It's very short sighted to suggest they wouldn't have an impact on others.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Gohlar

[Vercasius]

Well , the fact is all the info recount ( or whatever they will call it for swtor ) add on gives is vital in identifying if a player is underperforming or not . Its not like the awful gearscore add on which appeared in WoW a year ago and caused a lot of drama on forums and servers.

 

To be honest I wouldnt want to carry around some guy which is underperforming ( doesnt know how to play his class efficiently - hasnt spent as much time as me getting to know it )just because he can hide due to the lack of actual numbers speaking the truth .

 

Moreover , recount add on cant be compared to add ons like DBM . I also agree that add ons like DBM made raiding really easier and that Blizzard after some time started to design Raid encounters having in mind that raiders would have DBM installed therefore implementing features in raids . which would be nearly impossible to counter if you didnt have DBM.

 

Recount just shows facts.It shows whos dpsing good enough , whos interrupting , whos taking unnecessary damage . Facts that can pretty much make people in operations and fps notice whos the weakest link .

 

In my opinion the majority of people against recount are just afraid of the snowball effect this will have . The game will no longer be a nice Fable like RPG where we all lay back and enjoy the story the lore and do some fps and ops for the giggles. Thing is people will have to really pump up their game . Seek out forums for theorycrafting and best combos / talents / specialization . This is a MMORPG and people should start seeing that.

 

Competition is a part of the game . So are elitist jerks / polite players / bad players / flamers .

An add on wont "ruin" the fun of the game . These types of gamers will exist no matter if recount gets implemented or not .

The only thing that will change is that at least now there will be some numbers and facts that can give a fairly established opinion about a players performance .

Edited January 8, 2012 by Vercasius

[Alexthree]

Well , the fact is all the info recount ( or whatever they will call it for swtor ) add on gives is vital in identifying if a player is underperforming or not . Its not like the awful gearscore add on which appeared in WoW a year ago and caused a lot of drama on forums and servers.

 

To be honest I wouldnt want to carry around some guy which is underperforming ( doesnt know how to play his class efficiently - hasnt spent as much time as me getting to know it )just because he can hide due to the lack of actual numbers speaking the truth .

 

Moreover , recount add on cant be compared to add ons like DBM . I also agree that add ons like DBM made raiding really easier and that Blizzard after some time started to design Raid encounters having in mind that raiders would have DBM installed therefore implementing features in raids . which would be nearly impossible to counter if you didnt have DBM.

 

Recount just shows facts.It shows whos dpsing good enough , whos interrupting , whos taking unnecessary damage . Facts that can pretty much make people in operations and fps notice whos the weakest link .

 

In my opinion the majority of people against recount are just afraid of the snowball effect this will have . The game will no longer be a nice Fable like RPG where we all lay back and enjoy the story the lore and do some fps and ops for the giggles. Thing is people will have to really pump up their game . Seek out forums for theorycrafting and best combos / talents / specialization . This is a MMORPG and people should start seeing that.

 

Competition is a part of the game . So are elitist jerks / polite players / bad players / flamers .

An add on wont "ruin" the fun of the game . These types of gamers will exist no matter if recount gets implemented or not .

The only thing that will change is that at least now there will be some numbers and facts that can give a good about a player performance .

 

 

ITA. 10/10 great post.

[AlpsStranger]

The pentultimate example of epeening right here. I'd like to see a combat log but mindsets like this make it real easy to vote no.

 

His damage was actually fine in this particular case Kegger. It wasn't that I was getting on him for low damage. I had simply recognized him from the forums as someone who was rabidly anti-parser. At that point in Rift a lot of people didn't know that real-time parsing was already possible, so I stumbled into a pug with him and linked damage just to mess with him.

 

I was not epeening at all. I was poking the bear.

 

His damage was not the issue. It was his psychotic numerophobia I was exploiting.

[Chosenxeno]

People swear up and down addons will ruin the game. I knew people that logged in for WOW just for the fishing dailies and contests. They could give a damn about a raid or any of this. How does recount ruin the experience for that guy?

[Andryah]

The pentultimate example of epeening right here. I'd like to see a combat log but mindsets like this make it real easy to vote no.

 

yep yep. He is EXACTLY why there is pushback on the wanters by the not-wanters.

[Andryah]

People swear up and down addons will ruin the game. I knew people that logged in for WOW just for the fishing dailies and contests. They could give a damn about a raid or any of this. How does recount ruin the experience for that guy?

 

Because when he logs in there will be some douche-bag camping him that wants to gearscore him, duel him, and /rant at him about how he must suxors due to his gear or class. You can't say this does not happen either.

 

You pick an extreme isolated example to make your point. See I can too.

[romandaemon]

I would like for this to remain a video game.....not a math/survey study class. I don't want to analyze anything outside of a storyline i.e. a game I play for fun. Don't care if its easier or harder...I don't want to deal with people showing me a wall of text to boast how awesome they are....don't care. If we need statistical calculator to play a game.....that's sad...really sad. Its just a video game, something.g I do for fun...I get enough number analysis all day at work. You guys who like it so much....get a job as a statistician or an accountant.....and youll get to do that all day long....and get good money for it too

[JansanRuno]

No I do not. Reason: don't like it

[AlpsStranger]

yep yep. He is EXACTLY why there is pushback on the wanters by the not-wanters.

 

His damage was actually fine in this particular case Kegger. It wasn't that I was getting on him for low damage. I had simply recognized him from the forums as someone who was rabidly anti-parser. At that point in Rift a lot of people didn't know that real-time parsing was already possible, so I stumbled into a pug with him and linked damage just to mess with him.

 

I was not epeening at all. I was poking the bear.

 

His damage was not the issue. It was his psychotic numerophobia I was exploiting.

 

/10char

[Alexthree]

People swear up and down addons will ruin the game. I knew people that logged in for WOW just for the fishing dailies and contests. They could give a damn about a raid or any of this. How does recount ruin the experience for that guy?

 

It really doesn't.

 

I used to play WoW and I had a long 'casual' period. I played a lot but I didn't raid, I should say. I had the top gear one could get without stepping in a 40-man raid. I busted my *** getting a cool mount, vanity pet, interesting hats etc. Then I decided I wanted to raid so I worked my *** off to get into a top guild.

 

 

My point is, when I wasn't raiding I didn't resent those that did. When I was raiding I never had to deal with ******es talking down my dps or hurting my feelings. They were just people, and they treated me like a person. So maybe some of the anti-dpsmeter folk were abused by raiders once but I never had a negative experience with my guild. And if they had been cruel to me I would have been happy to go. Why spend time with people who are jerks?

 

 

So, I guess dps meters gives jerks material to use against less-than-fantastic players. But they won't get that info unless you play with them. And I don't play with jerks.

[Andryah]

His damage was actually fine in this particular case Kegger. It wasn't that I was getting on him for low damage. I had simply recognized him from the forums as someone who was rabidly anti-parser. At that point in Rift a lot of people didn't know that real-time parsing was already possible, so I stumbled into a pug with him and linked damage just to mess with him.

 

I was not epeening at all. I was poking the bear.

 

His damage was not the issue. It was his psychotic numerophobia I was exploiting.

 

So you fully admit then that you were using a combat parser to exploit (your word not mine)and interefere with the experience of a person that disagrees with you on using combat parsers AND whose dps output was just fine.

 

That is called griefing, and you used a 3rd party mod to grief another player. You sir are part of the problem why people who would use a tool responsibly are getting so much pushback.

 

Thank you for reinforcing why I object to adding this crap into this game.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Andryah

[AlpsStranger]

So you fully admit then that you were using a combat parser to exploit (your word not mine)and interefere with the experience of a person that disagrees with you on using combat parsers AND whose dps output was just fine.

 

That is called griefing, and you used a 3rd part mod to grief another player. You sir are part of the problem why people who would use a tool responsibly are getting so much pushback.

 

Thank you for reinforcing why I object to adding this crap into this game.

 

He was griefing himself. He chose his reaction to what should have been a perfectly ordinary event.

 

The severe pole of the anti-meter position is actually crazy. I don't feel guilty messing with people who stake out such an extreme and laughable position.

Edited January 8, 2012 by AlpsStranger

[Hidalgo]

as long as the people in your group can say their ABC's they should have no problem lolDPSing.

 

i'm ok with UI upgrading, but think a damage meter would do more harm than good.

 

 

how about a combat log, and a personal DPS meter.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Hidalgo

[PjPablo]

So you fully admit then that you were using a combat parser to exploit (your word not mine)and interefere with the experience of a person that disagrees with you on using combat parsers AND whose dps output was just fine.

 

That is called griefing, and you used a 3rd part mod to grief another player. You sir are part of the problem why people who would use a tool responsibly are getting so much pushback.

 

Thank you for reinforcing why I object to adding this crap into this game.

 

Wow thats a stretch. Exploiting? Riiiiight.

[Chosenxeno]

I dunno why this needs another thread tbh. Parsers, Addon, LFFP(Looking for Flashpoint hehe) and Macros are coming. It doesn't make sense not to have them. They exist in the most successful and popular Game in the history of the genre. Some of them should have honestly been in from day one(not so much addons API usage have to be kinda monitored). There are F2Ps with better UI customization out of the box than in this game.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

Does recount tell you about the DPS that jumped in front of the healer so that he takes the boss damage losing his DPS. No all it does is promote an ellite-est attitude while in truth if these player's were so good they wouldn't need machine telling them abut their tunnel vision dps.

 

SWTOR has several boss not just not. You are not fighting on a giant's ankle for 20 minute's. You do not need recount or any other tool. Wow is bleeding sub's badly. And part of their community being so nasty with each other. This whole I'm better then you and insulting lesser player's. It's something this game does not need ever. Those that want it need accept that or simply find a game that fit's their mods. Heard wow has them.

[AlpsStranger]

Wow thats a stretch. Exploiting? Riiiiight.

 

It doesn't matter. If they want to quote mine my use of the word "exploit" and falsely equate it with what is generally meant by exploit in a general MMO context then let them. It's only more evidence that the anti-addon/anti-parser argument has no intrinsic merit.

Edited January 8, 2012 by AlpsStranger

[Andryah]

He was griefing himself. He chose his reaction to what should have been a perfectly ordinary event.

 

Sorry bud. You griefed him because you knew you were poking at him about something. His reaction to your poking is irrelevant (except you seemed thrilled that you drove him out of the group activity).

 

Here's the sad thing here. You think you are righteous and can do as you please in a game, including deliberately harrasing another player. You are part of the problem and are too calous to even care.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Andryah