Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Hairless]

Why?

 

What does it really matter if one person does 5% less DPS as long as the boss dies?

 

Why is it so EXTREMELY important that everyone does EXACTLY the same amount of DPS?

 

Do you play this game for the numbers or for the entertainment?

 

1. I don't recall anyone getting kicked for doing 5% less DPS and I've done a lot of pugs. But I've seen people get kicked if they are constantly causing wipes and wasting the entire raid's time because they are doing less DPS than the huntard's pet. And this person would usually ninja pull the boss as he was getting ported out of the instance.

 

2. Eh? Not even sure what you are talking about.

 

3. Seeing the numbers actually increase the entertainment. It's kinda more fun to watch basketball when you can see the scoreboard and the stats about each players.

[JasonSlam]

No. absoloutely not.

Recount will lead to gear score scum telling peole they cant group with them, or kicking them from groups, because they dont like the numbers they are seeing. It makes tossers in to bigger tossers and should be banned from all MMO's.

 

 

This. There is no need for it. Never needed it in WoW when I was running raids, and certainly do not need it here.

[Truga]

Sure, they aren't totally decided yet. But I think a lot of people assume that Bioware backs their philosophical objections to addons. Bioware has specifically disavowed the idea that they are trying to improve the community or protect people by not having damage meters.

 

Whatever factors Bioware has in the 'con' column for addons, I guarantee you they look nothing like what the anti-addon people say. I just can't see a game developer buying in to some of this reasoning.

 

I completely agree with you on this part. Add-ons will never make or break the community itself, they're just tools. Guns don't kill people, people kill people, guns are just the tools. If the community is bad, the add-ons just give us another reason to be *****y about "noobs", but honestly, people that want to be annoying will be annoying whether there's add-ons or not, and I hope this isn't in bioware's consideration list as a deterrent, cause that'd be dumb.

[Eisregen]

Right, so busywork is rewarded over actual reflexes and skill.

 

In a world where we can do all the busywork in 10 seconds those gifted with more raw reflexes and situational awareness come out on top. ( Note that I'm not assuming or implying that this will be *me* personally )

 

In a world where we need a scratch pad and stopwatch to optimize we get the 'A for effort' scenario.

 

Both are fine in their way I guess, but I think the first choice is generally considered more "gamerlike."

 

Yeah sorry, no. It's hardly skill to pick up a preferred build and DPS rotation from a forums thread and just rinse and repeat it throughout a raid. Reflexes mean nothing when you can queue up your skills a whole second in advance either. If this was a vs. FPS these things would matter. The rest is just silliness like the one perpetuated by the guy above who says he needs the 'best DPS'.

 

SWTOR seems to have tried to go a long way to make sure you can both play the class that appeals to you and still have the choice of two or three different roles you can take that class towards. I have no interest in being surrounded by people who actually care that their group or op group can drop an enemy a few seconds faster by getting one spec over another.

 

If this actually is what a statistical combat log for everyone leads up to, then to hell with it.

[Ecunami]

And I allready told you how to "cheat" or "fake" this stats.

-> useless crap

 

WoW Prists did it with spamming group heal or flash heal ... MEGA active ... MEGA useless! But hey, they had been "active" (target tank, stick range DD, use keyboard tool to /macro spam flash heal, watch TV).

 

If someone simply looping a macro, then this will show up in recount. If they aren't doing their job everyone will know it.

 

Also why are you bringing macros up? They are not in the game and not really relevant to this discussion. If someone has a macro keyboard, they can do this whether recount is in the game or not.

[onanonehand]

I don't play mmo's to compete with other video nerds. I have more than enough real life challenges that more than give meaning to my existence.

 

I am so sick of the "competitive gamer" myth. There are no winter games video olympics... with good reason.

 

I know this has become cliche but none the less true--get a life.

[Hairless]

I don't play mmo's to compete with other video nerds. I have more than enough real life challenges that more than give meaning to my existence.

 

I am so sick of the "competitive gamer" myth. There are no winter games video olympics... with good reason.

 

I know this has become cliche but none the less true--get a life.

 

Maplestory suits you better then. It's also free.

[Jahor]

But from your post I get it that you think all of us (min/maxers) are the same. I'm far from the loot-wh0re you discribe. I never rage, flame, cry or nag in a raid setting because of poor performance or if I lost a roll for my gear. In fact, I'm probably the first guy in the raid that pass on an item so another member can get a bigger upgrade.

 

So don't draw us all over the same line...

 

OK.

I started as feral tank bear in WoW. I did a DAMN good job, never died, never lost aggro ... but the first raid (which was a min/max raid) doesn't allow me to tank (and pressed me into heal-bot-drui role) as warrior-tanks generated about 5% more aggro. So they let a warrior do the main tank job who NEVER managed to catch adds or respawns.

 

THIS are min/max players. It does not matter, if someone love his role (tank for me) and is realy good at it. All that matters is, that in THEORY one class is better the an other. So they rather let someone be the tank who want to be a DPS-warrior.

 

Later on I managed to get a spot as cat-DPS in one raid but it last just one patch as cat's got nerved by ~10% which was enough to forbit raid cats again.

 

THIS is what all this stupid number, meters, calculations lead to!

They remove any fun out of a game but make them full time jobs!

[Hairless]

This. There is no need for it. Never needed it in WoW when I was running raids, and certainly do not need it here.

 

Of course you didn't need it when you were pugging Naxx at level 85.

[AlpsStranger]

I completely agree with you on this part. Add-ons will never make or break the community itself, they're just tools. Guns don't kill people, people kill people, guns are just the tools. If the community is bad, the add-ons just give us another reason to be *****y about "noobs", but honestly, people that want to be annoying will be annoying whether there's add-ons or not, and I hope this isn't in bioware's consideration list as a deterrent, cause that'd be dumb.

 

Well, it's nice to find some common ground.

 

I want to complement your signature btw. I groaned a little once I noticed it, but I also laughed

[Yfelsung]

I don't play mmo's to compete with other video nerds. I have more than enough real life challenges that more than give meaning to my existence.

 

I am so sick of the "competitive gamer" myth. There are no winter games video olympics... with good reason.

 

I know this has become cliche but none the less true--get a life.

 

Then you have the option to create a guild of likeminded people.

 

See, everyone wins.

 

No one forces you to play with us.

 

And I have a life, a job, a soon-to-be-wife, but when I play a game I play to win because victory is a sauce that makes fun taste better.

 

And crushing, utterly dominating victory is even more fun.

 

I play games for fun.

[Truga]

I don't play mmo's to compete with other video nerds. I have more than enough real life challenges that more than give meaning to my existence.

 

I am so sick of the "competitive gamer" myth. There are no winter games video olympics... with good reason.

 

I know this has become cliche but none the less true--get a life.

 

As a person who doesn't want add-ons in the game because of people like you, I find your post offensive. There's plenty competitive gaming going on. I used to be in the top of the world in AQ2, and much later in eve online and I can tell you that competitive gaming is a cutthroat game where any mistake, as small as it might appear, might cost you your title.

 

There's plenty winter games video olympics going on, just because they're not mainstream enough for you to notice them doesn't mean they're not happening. Go back under whatever stone you crawled from if you just want to post derogatory posts about people who live differently from you.

 

Edit: Also google Korea Starcraft.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Truga

[Battousaien]

OK.

I started as feral tank bear in WoW. I did a DAMN good job, never died, never lost aggro ... but the first raid (which was a min/max raid) doesn't allow me to tank (and pressed me into heal-bot-drui role) as warrior-tanks generated about 5% more aggro. So they let a warrior do the main tank job who NEVER managed to catch adds or respawns.

 

THIS are min/max players. It does not matter, if someone love his role (tank for me) and is realy good at it. All that matters is, that in THEORY one class is better the an other. So they rather let someone be the tank who want to be a DPS-warrior.

 

Later on I managed to get a spot as cat-DPS in one raid but it last just one patch as cat's got nerved by ~10% which was enough to forbit raid cats again.

 

THIS is what all this stupid number, meters, calculations lead to!

They remove any fun out of a game but make them full time jobs!

 

Then don't join with those PuG's or find another guild that suits your needs better. I'm sorry you got that kind of experience with min/max players, but trust me, far from everyone is a jerk.

[aimbotcfg]

Actually, this is more like "Cars with phones in them kill people because people aren't paying attention as well while talking on the phone."

 

 

Actually, if you want to be accurate, Its nothing like car phones. Because meters cause harm to noone. Its like saying they shouldn't have indicators, cause why should anyone else know what you're doing.

[Rawrie]

i just love when ppl say: "I dont want damagemeters cauz ppl would see i suck and kick me"

 

Keep going, guys.

[AlpsStranger]

As a person who doesn't want add-ons in the game because of people like you, I find your post offensive. There's plenty competitive gaming going on. I used to be in the top of the world in AQ2, and much later in eve online and I can tell you that competitive gaming is a cutthroat game where any mistake, as small as it might appear, might cost you your title.

 

There's plenty winter games video olympics going on, just because they're not mainstream enough for you to notice them doesn't mean they're not happening. Go back under whatever stone you crawled from if you just want to post derogatory posts about people who live differently from you.

 

Edit: Also google Korea Starcraft.

 

It is a strange double standard. If I master Go, Chess, Darts or Poker I can get a lot of respect. Yet if I use the exact same brain cells to master Starcraft 2 people get to crack wise.

 

Sure, something like Chess has more gravitas and is a wider and older game. It is probably more impressive to be the best chess player in the world. On the other hand, being the best Starcraft 2 player in the world is a lot more than 99.99% of us sorry humans accomplish. Same with being the top Arena player in WoW or something like that.

Edited January 10, 2012 by AlpsStranger

[Vindexus]

Yes. Although with a combat log being released I believe this will be available as well wether Bioware wants it or not.

 

These tools are pretty much essential though

 

You're absolutely right. If a combat log is in the works, which it appears that it is, then there will be a 3rd party meter/parser like the one from Rift in short order.

To all the people who want a meter but don't want it to be linkable, just stop. That doesn't solve the elitist problem. Please remember that you're on the Internet and elitism is in no way limited in scope to games, MMO or otherwise.

I disagree that they're essential. Trust me, when you get to playing with people like you do with guildmates you get a grasp of their ability, so essentially you know who you're carrying and who you're not. Yes, it's harder with PUGs but content that you're pugging isn't usually tuned to the point where that last 5% makes or breaks success.

[Jahor]

If someone simply looping a macro, then this will show up in recount. If they aren't doing their job everyone will know it.

 

Also why are you bringing macros up? They are not in the game and not really relevant to this discussion. If someone has a macro keyboard, they can do this whether recount is in the game or not.

 

Even without macro ... spam either big heals or fast heals and bam, you have big numbers and high activity bars. Recount (and no x-meter) can ever detect, if this casts where cleaver used or helpy at all.

 

You will notice it WITHOUT any bars just by watching this player.

 

That's my point. Good players never need "recount" or "x-meter" or stuff like this. You notice if someone has skill or realy try to win WITHOUT any hard numbers! And that's what devides good players from bad players. Good player will even slow down their DPS as soon as they notice "the tank as problems" or reach high DPS even without min/max skilling/equip.

But they all do it WITHOUT tools just by playing the game.

 

It is simply NOT NEEDED!

 

But it will lead to "/all LFG DPS min 600 recount value" <- THIS will happen!

[Chuoz]

Gaming = FUN

Gaming = Competition

Faster, quicker, stronger, better, wtv you name it, it's our nature... and dont try to deny cause you always want your toon to perform better, but how will you know if you dont have INFO.

 

INFO = Future

Ignorance = FAIL!!!

 

External addons or Bioware addons if not Why put Stats or color on gear...? Just put Item level...

 

Paradoxal minds...

[aimbotcfg]

It is a strange double standard. If I master Go, Chess, Darts or Poker I can get a lot of respect. Yet if I use the exact same brain cells to master Starcraft 2 people get to crack wise.

 

Sure, something like Chess has more gravitas and is a wider and older game. It is probably more impressive to be the best chess player in the world. On the other hand, being the best Starcraft 2 player in the world is a lot more than 99.99% of us sorry humans accomplish. Same with being the top Arena player in WoW or something like that.

 

I'm also willing to bet that NesTea, HUK, MC, ForGG, Leenock etc mke a lot more money than 99.9% of chess players.

Edited January 10, 2012 by aimbotcfg

[TheDivineEmu]

NOPE.

 

Don't need it Don't want it.

[Antipiety]

No. If someone cares about seeing DPS they should have to be smart enough to install it themselves. I do support 3rd party DPS meters though.

[aimbotcfg]

Even without macro ... spam either big heals or fast heals and bam, you have big numbers and high activity bars. Recount (and no x-meter) can ever detect, if this casts where cleaver used or helpy at all.

 

You will notice it WITHOUT any bars just by watching this player.

 

That's my point. Good players never need "recount" or "x-meter" or stuff like this. You notice if someone has skill or realy try to win WITHOUT any hard numbers! And that's what devides good players from bad players. Good player will even slow down their DPS as soon as they notice "the tank as problems" or reach high DPS even without min/max skilling/equip.

But they all do it WITHOUT tools just by playing the game.

 

It is simply NOT NEEDED!

 

But it will lead to "/all LFG DPS min 600 recount value" <- THIS will happen!

 

This is a moot point, since when someone is doing that in a group that anyone with half a brain is in they will say "dude, *** is with the FoL spamming and 60% overheals, sort it out"

 

Quite the numerophobia, recount exposes people not doing their job and wanting an easy ride.

[Uruare]

Maplestory suits you better then. It's also free.

 

 

Because happy-funtime MMORPG's that are primarily story-driven and immersively story-heavy aren't for people primarily interested in happily poking around and enjoying the story without any obsessive care in the world for micromanagement tools for raid performance.

 

Some of us play a happy-funtime game to be happy and have fun. Some of us find more than enough competition, work, struggle and relative achievmeent in our RL doings and do not seek those in our happy-funtime games.

 

You know, the ones that are full of story immersion and rich lore and...odd...it almost sounds like I'm describing a game like TOR.

 

Bizarre, innit?

[dimster]

What if, we had like 2 types of servers :

 

Type 1) where add ons and combat log existed (and thus all good thinhs like recount gearscores dps meters etc etc)

 

Type 2) where its exactly like it is now, but only with a few UI customization options like scaling and Bar dragging etc.

 

How would that solution NOT satisfy both worlds?

 

If that is not posible though i would vote that add ons and combat logs are left out of the game since they are cornerstones of the OMG U SUCK LEARN TO PLAY NEWB QQ LOL FTW LEET culture, a culture that i would personaly not welcome in the game if i could help it.

 

Some people play for bragging rights and some people play for fun. Swtor is a game and games by design should be fun. If people want to make the game an E-sport there should be special servers where people compete and Win allong with the normal servers where people just play and have fun.