Spankyjnco Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Ok... Hear me out. When you go the middle skill path, you end up getting the ability Massacre. It is the exact same cost and damage as Vicious slash, only it helps your proc in the Ataru Form. If you follow any of that pathway that has an effect on the ability Vicious Slash it also includes Massacre. If you look at your Berserk Ability, it shows it turns Vicious Slash AND Massacre from 3 to 2 Rage points. Also every other tree, anything dealing with Vicious Slash applies directly to Massacre. That being said.. Why Is it that Massacre does not go up in ability levels at the same time as Vicious Slash? When you first get Massacre the damage is Identical.. yet as you level and get your next 2 rank Vicious Slash ability, Massacre stays the same, which makes it useless to use leave in the position of vicious slash. When I got massacre, I realized that it was just an upgraded form of Vicious Slash. The only "special" part is that it helps your proc. Every other tree gets an ability that is indipendant, but this one was it's own upgrade if you will. Now that I am 50 and my Vicious Slash does 960 - 1165, while Massacre is still sitting at what it was at level 41 807-966. I am requesting a developer to PLEASE look into this. It should scale exactly with vicious slash. Maxxing the middle path should be allowing us to replace Vicious Slash with Massacre. Maybe they haven't figured out to allow the skill trainer to allow you to upgrade the ability ONLY IF you went that path or something, but this needs to be fixxed. If a dev would post here with more information, that would be great. Please fellow marauders... keep this topic UP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) It ends up doing more than Vicious Slash. The base weapon damage does less, however the increases to damage, crit chance, and crit damage to the instant Ataru proc make it pull ahead. Making the base damage the same as Vicious Slash's would defeat the purpose of the talent. Edited January 8, 2012 by Kibaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanzel Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 That Massacre does less damage on its own is totally irrelevant. It always procs Ataru Strike, which immediately evens out the damage on a non-crit. When either crit, they crit for 30% harder than Vicious Slash otherwise would. In addition Massacre increases the chance of all of your other attacks to proc an Ataru Strike... including itself, meaning that on every Massacre you have a 50% chance to double Ataru Strike. That guaranteed Ataru Strike in turn guarantees an automatic critical on Force Scream, on top of proccing 10% harder hits from your rage spenders. I wouldn't mind if Massacre's primary attack hit as hard as Vicious Strike, but considering it starts clearly better and emerges still better by far, as in you'd have to be completely retarded not to use it... I can't see the justification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotli Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 ^ yep you need to factor in everything the skill does and over all it hits harder than its lesser sibling (even though that does more base damage on paper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Massacre can proc ataru strikes twice. If you think it does less damage than vicious slash, I worry for you. And considering that it greatly increases the uptime of Execute, makes it even better. Edited January 8, 2012 by Sayc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzraelCales Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 so when you get massacre do you take vicious slash out of the rotation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaahanian Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yes, you no longer need to use Vicious Slash unless you are absolutely in love with the ability and cannot fathom a future without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbonated Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Keep an eye on your buffs when using, Yesterday while doing a world boss ataru strike stuff wasnt proccing at all while spamming massacre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaahanian Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Does the massacre proc'ing the ataru strike still have to follow the 1.5 sec GCD that ataru procs follow? (Can't recall if the GCD in this game is 1.0 or 1.5 sec.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kotorspartan Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Does the massacre proc'ing the ataru strike still have to follow the 1.5 sec GCD that ataru procs follow? (Can't recall if the GCD in this game is 1.0 or 1.5 sec.) Sadly, its 1.5 sec GCD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Sadly, its 1.5 sec GCD It's 1.5 seconds, however I don't believe the instant proc uses the Ataru cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenshinth Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Mass ignore's the ataru proc GCD. So basically if u berserk and spam mass x5 they all will cause a ataru proc. Edited January 9, 2012 by Kenshinth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 And some of them will cause two ataru procs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 And some of them will cause two ataru procs. Ive seen that happen to during a beserk, i always wrote it off as just, way too much stuff going on for me to keep track of every single one! glad to know i wasnt crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadinaxx Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 The other thing that massacre does, that you might be overlooking in your dps rotation, is give you a 100% crit chance on force scream. Massacre (unlike the other two trees) is a self buffing attack, rather than a dmg dealer. The dmg it deals is only a bonus to the gcd cost it takes to make other more important attacks deal more dmg. Carnage is a very tricky build if you dont understand it fully, it took me about a week at lvl 50 to iron it out and get comfortable with my ability rotation, which massacre is only used after I use force scream (to que up another 100% crit when force scream is available again). I DO use viscous slash on rage dump phases (when I pop beserk an I'm at 10+ stacks of rage) In short, massacre is a waste if you want to use it as a spammable dmg dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 The other thing that massacre does, that you might be overlooking in your dps rotation, is give you a 100% crit chance on force scream. Massacre (unlike the other two trees) is a self buffing attack, rather than a dmg dealer. The dmg it deals is only a bonus to the gcd cost it takes to make other more important attacks deal more dmg. Carnage is a very tricky build if you dont understand it fully, it took me about a week at lvl 50 to iron it out and get comfortable with my ability rotation, which massacre is only used after I use force scream (to que up another 100% crit when force scream is available again). I DO use viscous slash on rage dump phases (when I pop beserk an I'm at 10+ stacks of rage) In short, massacre is a waste if you want to use it as a spammable dmg dealer. It actually out-damages Vicious Slash due to Ataru Mastery and Sever; I would just spam Massacre on rage-dump phases. I consider it more of a spammable damage dealer that just happens to automatically grant us Blood Frenzy. If Blood Frenzy is about to run off just trade off Assault/Massacre until your next Massacre refreshes it then go into your Gore, Scream, and Ravage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadinaxx Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'll have to keep testing the two rotations then, cause with my stats and surge rating, vicious slash is hitting HARD (3-5k per gcd), but I'll have to go thru some fraps footage an count up the numbers an compare time stamps. I'll do that on our next EV raid, I'll do a couple rotations one way, then a couple your way an compare the results Eventually we'll get this class figured out be able to bring the devs some real solid evidance on what needs tweaking an what doesnt, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'd be amazed to see a 5k vicious slash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenshinth Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'd be amazed to see a 5k vicious slash. Possible with Full Rakata gear. But u'll be missing out on all the things mass gives u instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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