Tracer Missile and Grav Round might need to be looked at

[Desgarden]

Its random nubs blatantly ignoring Armor pen, like BH/Commando's are the only class in the game that gets it.

 

So let me ask..How much damage do you do when you can bypass 50% of heavy armor for 15 seconds again?

 

As a sniper I can reduce it by 20%.

 

It is funny though how people downplay heavy armour here. Try to play a sniper who gets attention then come back and say again that heavy arnour isn't mitigating much. I bet that I have your mitigation when I am behind portable cover.

 

Personally I think BHs and Troopers do a little too good. It is simply their whole package: heavy armour, heavy dps (easily on par with a sniper), a very great ranged cc (take sniper as an example: not mobile and his cc is melee range)

Edited January 9, 2012 by Desgarden

[Enfuri]

I think you are right, you have identified an overtuned ability and it does need to be looked at.

 

However there are problems with about 80% of the damage skills in this game. A lot of them are out of whack.

 

An operative should not be doing more damage then a marauder for example, the operative has all kinds of great utility including stealth and healing.

 

Certainly Master strike from a straight DPS class with three dps trees, should do more damage then a damage skill of a ranged class.

 

The more i'm hearing people talk about damage on other abilities the more I think the JK/SW just plain got screwed. Sure if we go a very specific path in the focus tree we can hit 4k hits with force sweep but most of our other abilities and ALL of our setup abilities hit for about 1/3 of the numbers that these people are talking about. I really dont think the knight damage should be buffed because if they do they would become too stupid good but when most abilities are only criting for 1500 while other classes can hit 3k on their setups and 5k on their damage abilities it just seems like something is off.

[fest]

The more i'm hearing people talk about damage on other abilities the more I think the JK/SW just plain got screwed. Sure if we go a very specific path in the focus tree we can hit 4k hits with force sweep but most of our other abilities and ALL of our setup abilities hit for about 1/3 of the numbers that these people are talking about. I really dont think the knight damage should be buffed because if they do they would become too stupid good but when most abilities are only criting for 1500 while other classes can hit 3k on their setups and 5k on their damage abilities it just seems like something is off.

 

Both SW ACs require more gear to be effective than other classes, If you think that makes them any less dangerous than those other classes, then something is wrong because both Marauders and Juggernauts can DEMOLISH people and Marauder is still the only class with a healing debuff.

 

edit: And I'm not talking about the Focus/Rage tree. While the Annihilation tree won't produce the big numbers that Rage will, it will produce more damage and has more self healing, thus more survivability.

Edited January 9, 2012 by fest

[ChampionChains]

I'd love to not spam Grav Round endlessly on my Commando. But in order to really maximize the damage of my High Impact Shot, I've got to spam Grav Round until I've got 5 buffs on me and my target has 5 debuffs on them. Then I throw out a High Impact Shot and gotta go right back to making sure my charges of Grav Round don't drop off before I can use High Impact Shot again. It isn't like we're spamming it because we love it so much, we're just forced to in order to optimize our damage and drop targets.

 

It's really not an exciting spec.

[Enfuri]

Both SW ACs require more gear to be effective than other classes, If you think that makes them any less dangerous than those other classes, then something is wrong because both Marauders and Juggernauts can DEMOLISH people and Marauder is still the only class with a healing debuff.

 

edit: And I'm not talking about the Focus/Rage tree. While the Annihilation tree won't produce the bug numbers that Rage will, it will produce more damage and has more self healing, thus more survivability.

 

I know the class is really good and can wreck people. But with the way people are talking it seems like our sunder armor and sundering assault should be doing like 3x more damage because "thats what setup moves do." I dont agree with it. I just think that for being an armor debuff that makes some of the other moves do 25% more damage tracer/grav hit a little hard for the functionality. Even if they cut the damage in half and cut the heat/ammo cost it would seem to be more in line with other debuff/buff abilities.

[Modecrypt]

I don't think the abilities are as big of a problem as the ability to stack crit for those abilities by mixing the two piece set bonus from PVE and PVP. The players that stack are ridiculous if they are left alone for more than a few seconds.

[Happaa]

Easily one of the most interruptable abilities in this game. And once the BH/Commando is locked out, not much they can do to be effective other then prematurely pop their heat seekers/commando equivalent and hit you with a weak rocket punch/railshot.

[Typheran]

Tracer Missile/Grav Round is easy-mode. As soon as you get that ability you can top the damage charts at level 23/24.

 

 

Only spec'd arsenal have Tracer missle. It doesnt hit for 3k+ it averages around 1.5 to 2k, with higher expertise crits around 3.8.

 

Sorc easily out damage BH.

 

BH have no interupts or real escape mechinisims.

 

BH have to stand still to use tracer missile. it is interruptable.

 

BH die easy to melee users.

 

 

If I were you I'd really focus on your character and his abilites.. Arsenal BH are easy to defeat.

[Modecrypt]

Sorc easily out damage BH.

 

No way.

[Sirolos]

As a sniper I can reduce it by 20%.

 

It is funny though how people downplay heavy armour here. Try to play a sniper who gets attention then come back and say again that heavy arnour isn't mitigating much. I bet that I have your mitigation when I am behind portable cover.

 

Personally I think BHs and Troopers do a little too good. It is simply their whole package: heavy armour, heavy dps (easily on par with a sniper), a very great ranged cc (take sniper as an example: not mobile and his cc is melee range)

 

As an Assassin I reduce it by 50% when mual's buff is up.

As an Operative I can shred it with Acid Blade which is a 50% armor pen for 15 seconds.

 

As far as Sniper mobility and BH mobility..

The only way a Merc is going to be more mobile than a sniper is if he is Pyro spec.

 

Since you play a sniper you know what immobility is right?

Now take away cover pulse, leg shot, evasion, distraction, ballistic Shield, and entrench.

 

Your now playing a Mercenary.

"But they have healz"

They have heals that are just as easy to interrupt, and have ridiculous push back unless they are healing spec ( in which case they wouldnt do damage and wouldnt be turrents either).

 

Lets start QQ'ing about a sniper that can free cast and be immune to CC and interrupts and force leap.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Sirolos

[Typheran]

No way.

 

I have a 50 BH with champ gear. It happens.

[Nyqan]

It's all about strengths and weaknesses, merc arsenal has HA and in some situations good dmg, but they also don't have much utility and no mobility (no mobility in mmo's today is something really bad).

 

If you nerf one of our strengths you also need the buff one of our weaknesses because merc is far from OP overall, there is plenty of classes that are overall stronger.

 

Rework how buffs/gear/stims work instead because right now every class can dish out way to much dmg because of it..

[Chomag]

Indeed, why should the most immobile class in pvp and with no stealth or serious cc to speak about have at least something that hurts after casting while a melee is bashing my face in and pushing back my casts ?!?

[Pappus]

OMG a class that can through careful map positioning and use of defensive cool downs defeat you on one of your classes but not all of them. Nerf them, the guys with the biggest guns in the game don't deserve damage comparable to every other class, they should just play healer or **** of the game.

 

Get your scoundrels/operatives to target the mandos = instagib.

No class is meant god mode all the others and Commando clearly is not doing that.

 

An operative with max gear can't even instagib me when I let him open on my assassin with every adrenal etc. It ain't happening given your resolvebar is full and you can just trinket out of it to go into rakata and then you will proceed to destroy him. And I am not wearing heavy armor.

 

He won't instagib a commando on equal gear/extras. Can happen, but not everytime. Especially given the operative has no defensive CD against tracers other then a single interrupt after he opened you seem to be very knowledgeable.

 

Maybe when you assume double opening by operative all the time it might work otherwise not so much.

 

I will say it again. No range class deserves similar dps to a melee they all should do less, because they have longer uptime. Anything else is absurd and tracer missile spam is equal dmg to an assassin/operative.

[Lightmgl]

Of course you didnt mention that the rotation of Tracer > Dart > Tracer > Heatseaker > Railshot also leaves you with close to 100 heat and if "vent heat" isnt up..the folow up is normal attack>normal attack>normal attack

 

But thats the "other" side of the class which people dont see unless they play one.

 

Id glady trade 2500 dmg/shot from my tracer if its combined with 5 stacks per shot of the buff/debuff and next to 0 heat and no cast timer so it cant be interrupted.

 

I guarantee you without tracer damage, but WITH the buffs it gives being applied more quickly...a BH will kill 3x faster...

 

Tracer Slows our kills down, but is *needed* to set up the buffs/debuffs for our burst damage instants which DO kill.

 

Only leaves me with about 50-60 heat by the time its finished and thats if nothing crits. If any of the missiles crit its even less....

 

The followup with an Unload easily gives enough time for heat to tick back down if the person isn't dead or you've moved on to another person.

 

Heat really, really isn't a problem if you're PvPing in PVE 2 piece and know how to handle your Vent Heat and Thermal Sensor Override unless you start fighting for a few minutes nonstop with nowhere to duck and Reload.

 

Anyways like you said its the combo that kills. Tracer is just the buildup and softens them up if they're not getting heals. Its really the Heatseeker + Railshot that should be doing a ton of damage with the Dart and/or midair Tracer to add some more, my Heatseekers are easily up to 5k crits without the red, or a consumable if the target has 5 stacks and not very much PvP gear. If I consumable stack and get the red I usually don't get to do the Heatseeker because they die before I need to fire it but so far the largest Heatseeker I ever got off was around 8300 with red + stim + power adrenal. It doesn't happen very often and is not really necessary to kill people but alot of fun.

 

I'm sure alot of the folks complaining are not level 50 or are level 50s without PvP gear too. People in 10% expertise with 16k-17k+ health (like me) knock my damage down a good bit. Tanks with 22k health like that are incredibly hard to kill and also probably fall into the OP area because they can survive for a very long time with another tank's Guard and cooldowns. I've seen a couple of Powertechs go cross field in Huttball by themselves without coming anywhere close to dying.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Lightmgl

[bamills]

What's with all the people who've never seen a caster class before?

 

They joined the cool kids who rolled jedi.