xVexillex Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 does power shot= charged bolts? If so I question your credentials... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfuri Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 if most of the other moves for the class are considered inefficient compared to tracer/grav then the devs really do need to look at the class and some of the abilities strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xVexillex Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 if most of the other moves for the class are considered inefficient compared to tracer/grav then the devs really do need to look at the class and some of the abilities strengths. ... charged bolts is designed for the assault and medic trees while grav round is designed for the gunnery tree. Its amazing how you have shown that you havent the slightest idea what you are talking about in EVERY SINGLE post you've made. so what lvls your JK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 does power shot= charged bolts? If so I question your credentials... /shrug with the stats im stacking i hit just as hard, if not mabye a bit harder, with power shot than i do with tracer missile on average, without using consumable damage buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirolos Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) i wont disagree that simply spamming it is a stupid way to play the class. The thing i'm trying to bring up is the fact that most other abilities that do comparable damage and many that do significantly less damage have much longer cool downs. . Not really.. Snipe- 1.5 sec cast- no CD Voltaic Slash- instant-no CD Maul-instant-no CD Force Lightning- channel- talented for no CD Powershot- 1.5 sec cast-no CD And the Attacks that do have CD's hit like a truck by comparison heatseeker missiles Hidden Strike Orbital Strike Back stab Rail shot Death Field Crushing Darkness (the initial hit + dots makes this pretty nice) Assassinate ( this crits pretty nicely) I dont understand why people cant CC...or interrupt..or Knock down or back...or force leap.. its the easiest attack to spot and counter...is the bread and butter for the class so if you do any of the above they are basically punching bags.. So no..unless they add a cooldown to ALL of the attacks that people can spam. Like battering assault or vicious slash..for example.. Edited January 8, 2012 by Sirolos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzzy Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) i wont disagree that simply spamming it is a stupid way to play the class. The thing i'm trying to bring up is the fact that most other abilities that do comparable damage and many that do significantly less damage have much longer cool downs. Even my armor decreasing move has a 5 second CD on it and it only hits for 1/2 of the damage of tracer missile. No, it's not a stupid way to play, the problem is, the good ones and bad ones both spam it but for different reasons. The bad ones spam it because its easy to push 1 button win, these guys are the ones who stand there after you interrupt them. The good ones spam it because it does way too much damage for its cast time, and if you interrupt them, that's when they'll throw in their heatseeker/demo etc, and then they'll spam it again. Basically the same way sorcerers/sages spam lightning/tk throw without as much damage. This isn't wow, since lockouts only effect a single skill, spamming your highest yield anytime ability followed by using a variant in downtime is how to best output damage (obviously everything changes when things get in your face, but the warzone design usually gives 50 to 75% if not more open uptime). Edited January 8, 2012 by Adzzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xVexillex Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 /shrug with the stats im stacking i hit just as hard, if not mabye a bit harder, with power shot than i do with tracer missile on average, without using consumable damage buffs. you lose damage though as grav round refreshes the debuff and adds a stack for high impact bolt, you arent loosing much but you are losing damage using power shot... I just dont see why you would use it, grav does the same thing while refreshing debuffs and making HiB hit harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 you lose damage though as grav round refreshes the debuff and adds a stack for high impact bolt, you arent loosing much but you are losing damage using power shot... I just dont see why you would use it, grav does the same thing while refreshing debuffs and making HiB hit harder. in all honesty, i dont like the tracer missile animation lol i like to mix it up, sometimes ill hit powershot a few times in a row, sometimes i wont hit it for an entire match. i dont have a set rotation that i consitently use. ill also sometimes hit it if i get interrupted during a tracer missile. tracer missile is a much more reliable source of damage than power shot though. i might be losing a few points in damage here and there, but nothing major, and doing it my way is more fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrakasa Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) in all honesty, i dont like the tracer missile animation lol i like to mix it up, sometimes ill hit powershot a few times in a row, sometimes i wont hit it for an entire match. i dont have a set rotation that i consitently use. ill also sometimes hit it if i get interrupted during a tracer missile. tracer missile is a much more reliable source of damage than power shot though. i might be losing a few points in damage here and there, but nothing major, and doing it my way is more fun Wow. So you got called out for not understanding basic mechanics of your class and now the animation is not to your taste? Just wow. Edit: also no one can/should have a "set rotation" in pvp, its situational play. But you should know which abilities have the comparably higher DPCT and how to build synergy between attacks. Edited January 8, 2012 by Kyrakasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadrak Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 not sure if these moves are intended to be as powerful as they are but it honestly seems to hit too hard for what it is. Its spec'ed for in the 3rd tier of the commando/bh trees, it has a 1.5 second cast with no cool down, a 30m range, as well as reduces a players armor. Problem is that it hits harder than the move that you have to spec for in the 7th tier which has a 15 second cooldown on it. In PvP Grav Round and Tracer Missile can hit reliably on crits for 2500-3000 and can be spammed to hit every 1.5 seconds. It hits harder than a Jedi Knights Master Strike which has a 4m range, applies damage over 3 seconds, and has a 30 second cool down. It wouldnt be so bad if so many BH's and troopers didnt just spam the move but it is the most effective way for them to kill stuff. No other class I'm aware of can use just one move and be as effective. Personally I feel it needs to have a cooldown added, have its damage decreased, move it higher up in the tree, have the ammo/heat cost increased, or something else to bring it in line with other moves in both the BH/Trooper trees and other classes that have cooldowns and dont do as much damage. the purpose of this thread is simply to give the devs a heads up so they can review the moves and see if they were meant to be this powerful and spamable. you sir are an idiot,im sorry,but you really are,do you think that our damage is high?,i can crit that much only with the expertise bonus,plus the combat stims with full champion gear and with my enemy with no expertise gear at all,do you know what amount of damagea scoundrel sniper or sorcerer can pull out INSTANTLY? plus do you know that tracer is interruptable?,and that we dont have interrupts escapes or anything that other classes alredy have,mercenaries atm are by far the worst PvP class out there on 1v1,the next time you see someone shooting missiles at you dont stand still,do something....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndgameTOR Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I play as a Mercenary Bounty Hunter and I'd love to see a Tracer Missile change. If they changed it to a system where I apply the debuff and switching to other abilities would be a DPS increase I'd do it! That said, TM makes me hit you harder, lets me Rail Shot you, and gives me 10% damage reduction all in a single ability that hits hard too - so I'm spamming away! If Bioware made Power Blast accomplish the same things, would that annoy you less? Just remember it could be worse: at least it doesn't have a 35m range! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSoljer Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Here is the end of the discussion for this thread. If they nerf grav round to be as useless as some of you want it, then BH and trooper have no good skills and no one would play them because they would be useless. Level 50 commando here, Gunnery spec. There are no other skills in our tree that even comes close to grav round. Add a cooldown to it? You make a useless class tree. Why not worry about a real problem like sith force lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) not sure if these moves are intended to be as powerful as they are but it honestly seems to hit too hard for what it is. Its spec'ed for in the 3rd tier of the commando/bh trees, it has a 1.5 second cast with no cool down, a 30m range, as well as reduces a players armor. Problem is that it hits harder than the move that you have to spec for in the 7th tier which has a 15 second cooldown on it. In PvP Grav Round and Tracer Missile can hit reliably on crits for 2500-3000 and can be spammed to hit every 1.5 seconds. It hits harder than a Jedi Knights Master Strike which has a 4m range, applies damage over 3 seconds, and has a 30 second cool down. It wouldnt be so bad if so many BH's and troopers didnt just spam the move but it is the most effective way for them to kill stuff. No other class I'm aware of can use just one move and be as effective. Personally I feel it needs to have a cooldown added, have its damage decreased, move it higher up in the tree, have the ammo/heat cost increased, or something else to bring it in line with other moves in both the BH/Trooper trees and other classes that have cooldowns and dont do as much damage. the purpose of this thread is simply to give the devs a heads up so they can review the moves and see if they were meant to be this powerful and spamable. In red, are you crazy ??? So you want to kill the class 100% ? Only thing OP as we all know in this game is the Operative.Maybe you are one of them ? Btw most times grav round only hits for 1300-2000 and after a few shots all the cells are gone even reserve. Edited January 8, 2012 by Lord_Karsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfuri Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Here is the end of the discussion for this thread. If they nerf grav round to be as useless as some of you want it, then BH and trooper have no good skills and no one would play them because they would be useless. Level 50 commando here, Gunnery spec. There are no other skills in our tree that even comes close to grav round. Add a cooldown to it? You make a useless class tree. Why not worry about a real problem like sith force lightning. Not every change has to be done in a WoW style complete class destruction way. Given the fact that the move acts pretty much as a utility to make it so you can be more effective with the other moves in the class it seems to hit a little hard for its purpose. even a 15%-20% damage reduction would probably help solve it. It doesnt need to be >50% and completely destroy the move. The purpose was never intended to (even though i knew it would) start a flame war about how OP moves are. Its simply that the devs should review the move to make sure its functioning in the way they intended. If they really want it to be a spamable debuff super shot then by all means they should keep it the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cegenaus Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 honestly man, form the way it sounds he knows the class much better than you and plays it better. This game should be about move variety and knowing all your abilities and being able to use all of your abilities. Not spamming 2-3 moves. i think because he is on your side it validates you to be more bias. go read the merc forums once and youll see im not the only one with this argument. as a matter of fact PLAY merc arsenal and then tell me im wrong i suggest you learn to use all of your tools before you whine about BUFFING merc whos whining in this thread? why dont you go learn your class before you QQ to someone pointing out its flaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) i think because he is on your side it validates you to be more bias. go read the merc forums once and youll see im not the only one with this argument. as a matter of fact PLAY merc arsenal and then tell me im wrong whos whining in this thread? why dont you go learn your class before you QQ to someone pointing out its flaws Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that you could dump the remaining points you get into healing and pick up the Uninteruptable Reactive shield, nor was I aware that you can also pick up an instant heal that increases the next heal effect on you by 5% as well as granting you a mitigation shield. Oh wait......uh oh, that counter-argument about interupt just got bottomed out, not forgetting dispelling all the garbage of BH's/Commando's being squishy. Edited January 8, 2012 by Zarthorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChosenoftheRaven Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Problem? Tracer missile in a hybrid healing build with the interrupt-prevention on improved energy shield. Solution? Move Tracer Missile up the tree so that particular build can no longer be used. No other changes necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Problem? Tracer missile in a hybrid healing build with the interrupt-prevention on improved energy shield. Solution? Move Tracer Missile up the tree so that particular build can no longer be used. No other changes necessary. How would that be a problem? Giving up all of your burst damage for a 2min cd gimmick. Absolutely not an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfuri Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 the only move you'd have to give up to do it would be heatseeking missile. For being as low as it is, tracer missile and grav round does comparable damage or more damage than abilities earned in the 5th and 7th levels of the trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niaoru Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Have you ever interrupted a BH or trooper that was spamming it? It's pretty funny. They just sit there not knowing what to do. Nubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xVexillex Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 the only move you'd have to give up to do it would be heatseeking missile. For being as low as it is, tracer missile and grav round does comparable damage or more damage than abilities earned in the 5th and 7th levels of the trees NO IT DOESENT. Ive showed you SEVERAL times that Demo round hits MUCH harder and no sane person would drop demo round for a short gimmick CD in the combat medic line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamataKahn Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Uh I'm 48 and my grav round hits for maybe 1100-1300 on average. Now 50s with full pvp gear might be able to hit as hard as you say but they about to get their own bracket so you won't have to worry about it then. Also, I've tried just spamming grav round in pvp, it doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamataKahn Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 the only move you'd have to give up to do it would be heatseeking missile. For being as low as it is, tracer missile and grav round does comparable damage or more damage than abilities earned in the 5th and 7th levels of the trees ROFL! Completely and utterly incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aowar Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 What's with all the people who've never seen a caster class before? It is comical at how many have no idea how to interrupt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfuri Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) one of the moves for a knight that does the same damage is as grav round and tracer is guardian slash. During beta this ability was moved to the 7th tier ability and has a 15 second CD and requires 5 stacks of sunder armor to have the same tool tip as grav round. you might only be focused on the trooper/bh trees, and even then grav is close to an unbuffed demo, but if you look at the specable abilities from OTHER classes you will notice that grav round hits as hard or harder but does not have a CD. Given the functionality of grav/tracer i dont think it should be moved higher in the trees but i think the damage should be reduced slightly. Edited January 8, 2012 by Enfuri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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